As was noted in Dev Diary 109, many people have been asking for a return of some kind of trade system, echoing back to the Republics of CK2 and the Silk Road/Trans-Saharan Gold trade. There have been many suggestions across the forums for this request (Ilya Belkin's being pretty comprehensive), but I notice a lot of them are very vague about implementation, or very passive about generating more income without any kind of effort outside of making a building and upgrading it. Driving back to Dev Diary 109, rageair said:
TL;DR
We're not going go get into the nitty and gritty of economics, but the basic principle is simple: Someone produces a raw material and then that material is either purchased/consumed or refined into a superior product that is then purchased/consumed. Thinking about how characters can get involved in this, nobility was mostly the consumer: an lord wants his horse, his armor, and his delicious, delicious baklava.
Essentially, each county should have two goods they can produce, a primary and secondary (I'll diatribe into the secondary resource later and those mechanics), with the primary resource determining the main effect. These can have a number of local passives/income effects that most people have suggested - to help make different resources unique, they should have an effect on its local province, and then affect their lord through some kind of modifier: having grains or rice as the primary reduces the local cost of Farms & Fields/Manor Houses/Orchards, and gives the count's armies a supply cap of 125 instead of 100. Manufacturing cotton in the Po Valley increases the Guilds' building development bonus by 5% while reducing upkeep for MAA by 2%. Producing wine in the Loire valley their liege a fertility bonus while local opinion is increased by 5.
Considering balance, especially as one's demesne grows beyond half a dozen, this could get a bit OP from all of the bonuses and then there's the issue of having those modifiers stack, so I'd say it'd be best to only give the passive modifier effect for your capital. Centers of Trade don't have a specific modifier, but you can just negotiate which one you want to use via your fairmaster, which is a role that has more detail later.
So far, I haven't tread new ground, but this is why we have to tie things back into characters: our characters in crusader kings want these goods and they want to consume them/use them. This is where things get juicy: every court has a inspired courtier that is working on producing a resource item.
2. Resource Items
This is basically repacking the artifact inspiration system, but tying it to your local resource: producing agriculture means you're corresponding with the village headman, trade goods with a guildsman, or a center of trade with a fairmaster. He's to add the character to whatever you're making, but will be consistently there for you, year after year, unless he or she has disappointed you can you want to replace him with someone who is more skilled and able.
Speaking of artifacts, I know there's some grumbles about inventory management, but I think a new inventory type is necessary to representing this goods to avoid bloating your artifact inventory, potentially just as a tab that can be switched to from the artifact inventory, as a 3x5 or a 4x4 grid. Nonetheless, these items would then be used to represent the actual flow of goods by person: most importantly, like artifacts, these, too, would have their own quality and effects (on use), while durability affects some things more than others (high quality flour still has a shelf limit; diamonds are forever). But these resources would also have a unique quality to them: Charges.
Instead of clogging up your grid with multiples of the same item, resources represent a gross product that can be used over time: a herd of Angus beef from Scotland can be used for several feasts, whereas a limited production of Wootz Steel can only be used in the production of one sword. And I say limited production of steel because production can vary over years; to add some variability, quality, effects, and charge quantity can change for each resource produced. There can be events that affect these outcomes like any artifact: storms keeping sailors from collecting pearls, heavy khareef monsoons flooding the incense fields, a blight ruining the wheat field with the best grains, a collapse in the salt mines; conversely, your sheep could be very fertile this year, fair weather for better spice cultivation, hunters chancing upon a very fine bear, extra silk worms smuggled out of China, etc. However, there should be some relative consistency in what you produce: Norwegian spruce should produce better quality lumber than Cornwall's forests (unless I'm unfamiliar about Cornish wood, then I apologize).
Of course, you have to spend money to make money: after producing the resource, you can then talk with your courtier about what you're going to do for your next cycle: will you put the money down to try to do things the same way, will you pay them more to try something different, or will you pay them less and threaten them to do better?
It is then important that resources be tied in the various actions that people already do in-game. Connect charges to events, schemes, weddings, hosting court, feasts, hunting, warfare, and other events. They should be used consistently that they are a regular feature of the game, but not spammy enough that nobody cares about any of the items you get because they all blend together; different resources should fill different roles but could also be used in similar situations. Classifications like sheep, goats, and cattle as mobile resources that are easily looted (as was common in Ireland and the various highlands, but are also food items that can be slaughtered and served at a feast alongside wine or fine breads, wheras certain mines produce certain kinds of jewels that are prized across the world.
For a majority of resources, this is the end. We got items, now we consume them in various actions, or gift them to someone else for some utility. The key drive for these resource items is that they should be involved in efforts that are cheap enough to do commonly so as to expend charges regularly and not fill up your resource inventory.
However, there are some goods that this isn't the end: what about the refinement process? What if I've got excess and want to make some money off of them?
3. Refinement of Goods and sale of products
For certain goods, all you need to do is procure them and now they're in your stockpile. You can use that ivory when you finally get an inspired courtier trying to make a throne, or you can sell your eels to your liege, as he wants something to show off at a feast so he can die and throw the kingdom into anarchy. But, for other resources, you've now got 3 good bushels of wool and, though you might try, it's not good eating. To trade, you have to rely on other people wanting your goods, so it turns out that there are counts who control lands who produce cloth: either they can seek you out to buy your wool, you can seek them out and establish a Trade Relationship, or you can just list your stuff to a center of trade and they can get it from the local fairmaster.
That sounds like a lot, so I'll break it down,as, quite frankly, this is the most difficult part of this idea because it relies a lot on having a cooperative AI. The fairmaster sounds like the most easiest option of just having an established market to dump things in, but having a direct Trade Relationship is the most important character-developing part of this.
Note: I feel there should be a new level of artifact below Common to represent creating an abysmally bad job, which is basically just a failure on investment--which is an natural part of business risk, as the struggle to not lose money should always be out there.
Meanwhile, owning a Center of Trade can put you in charge of A LOT of resources, which sounds like a lot of terrible micromanagement, but goods not sold after a set period of time will be sold anonymously on the cheap (ie, removed from the game to prevent bloat and keep the fairmaster's inventory open). Rather than have excess goods go to waste, this is where Trade Network relationships come in: rather than do all the nitty gritty of transporting goods, you can simply buy goods at that respective Center of Trade at the fraction of the distance cost, which is correlated into tax calculation. But the thing about networks is that they link: having a Network with one Center of Trade gives you connections to that CoT's Networks and that CoT'S Networks and that CoT's networks, etc. While you have preference with your particular connection, it'll eventually be Kevin Bacon with your network of trade into China, but you'll be getting the tail end of how expensive goods are to ship all the way over. Though this might sound like it's not worth the effort because you'll end up at the same place, but its price impacts on the local Producing Lord and Refining Lord are not to be understated, and relationships between lords due to their Trade Network are fragile, and can be broken by wars interrupting them, or rivalries causing them to end.
Drawing back in Merchant Republics from CK2, basically the larger powers should be directing their Network towards you as you fight with your rivals to take over their Networks.
Historic regions and cities could get bonsues their their Trade Networks but I don't know what that'd entail besides a lot of numbers crunching. The hope of Networks is that English wool can be networked to Flanders which is then refined and sold to the Champagne Fairs.
4. Secondary Goods
Why two? Because the economy in 867 isn't the same as 1066 or 1356 . Crusader Kings is a game about dynamism and so this is a way to help things adjust with time if you want have York, Gloucester, or even Boston usurp London as the center of English commerce. This basically gives a fallback option that can be adjusted based on events without directly altering the state of things; kinda like how the Cultural and Religious Minorities mod adds Minor and Major minorities to provinces, these don't do anything until you turn them into the majority in the province. You start the game producing grain and have a minor cattle resource, but, after a series of bad blights that look like you won't have another successful harvest for another decade, you can switch your major focus to cattle instead, so as long as you keep the border reivers from stealing them. Or, for the early starts, there are places that could be working in grain with a minor in cloth production that switch to focusing on the new vertical looms in the 11th century, as urbanization and industrialization changed society during the time frame of Crusader Kings. Otherwise, if your development far outpaces your neighbors, you could as well become a new Center of Trade, allowing for dynamic commercial hubs.
5. Resource Contracts
These were rather limited on a historic level, bout could provide some interesting use of resources, exchanging part of your feudal obligations for a Trade Relationship, securing a regular exchange of a resource to your lord/extracting them from your vassal, as a good bottle of wine is worth its weight in manpower. However, lieges usually have high expectation and so this contract is negotiated for masterworks, famed, or illustrious resources, with penalties levied upon you if you fail to meet your Trade Relationship.
This might be a bit too complicated or annoying to keep track of, but, basically an option to freely receive a resource that would otherwise be expensive to buy yourself at the price of that vassal's autonomy, whereas integrating what vassals are already doing to produce resources and give them a different way to expend them.
6. Example of various uses for resources and events
Anyways, that's enough design document ideas and beating a dead horse
So I wanted to throw around ideas that drive more into the character-driven aspect of things and discuss those points.
TL;DR
- Counties have modifiers depending on their resources that affect the local province and then their liege in some manner, the usual stuff
- Characters a resource inventory that shows the resources they have, preferably in an easy to read grid that can showcase a decent number of resources. These resources can have Charges, enabling them to be used several times before expiring
- Characters receive an inspired courtier position related to the resource from their capital county, producing a resource item of varying quality, effect, or number of charges after every inspiration cycle. There should be relative consistency in your product, but there is no certainty in economics
- These resources can be used in more than one way (to prevent them from just sitting around in your inventory until they rot), tying them to weddings, schemes, hosting court, feasts, hunting, warfare, gifts, and other events
- Characters can dump/pick up resources into their local center of trade, or seek out someone who is willing to make a deal
- Trade Relationships are a new type of Diplomatic Action (like an alliance) that establish regular and priority exchange of resources at better rates for those involved, while also fostering character relationships between characters, though these can be broken if a character fails to follow through
- Fairmasters are markets for excess resources, replacing inspired courtiers at Centers of Trade. They usually buy cheaper and sell higher than direct Trade relationships, with costs increasing by distance, but their liege gets a cut on whatever their sell
- Lieges can establish Trade Networks with other cities to give cheaper opportunities to buy goods/more tax revenue
- Counties have a secondary resource that can potentially replace the primary, or be switched with something entirely different pending the county's conditions
- Possibility of a vassal Trade Relationship contract with their liege as a way of resource obligations
- Economics are not static and can vary over time, depending on events, their inspired courtier, and world conditions
We're not going go get into the nitty and gritty of economics, but the basic principle is simple: Someone produces a raw material and then that material is either purchased/consumed or refined into a superior product that is then purchased/consumed. Thinking about how characters can get involved in this, nobility was mostly the consumer: an lord wants his horse, his armor, and his delicious, delicious baklava.
Essentially, each county should have two goods they can produce, a primary and secondary (I'll diatribe into the secondary resource later and those mechanics), with the primary resource determining the main effect. These can have a number of local passives/income effects that most people have suggested - to help make different resources unique, they should have an effect on its local province, and then affect their lord through some kind of modifier: having grains or rice as the primary reduces the local cost of Farms & Fields/Manor Houses/Orchards, and gives the count's armies a supply cap of 125 instead of 100. Manufacturing cotton in the Po Valley increases the Guilds' building development bonus by 5% while reducing upkeep for MAA by 2%. Producing wine in the Loire valley their liege a fertility bonus while local opinion is increased by 5.
Considering balance, especially as one's demesne grows beyond half a dozen, this could get a bit OP from all of the bonuses and then there's the issue of having those modifiers stack, so I'd say it'd be best to only give the passive modifier effect for your capital. Centers of Trade don't have a specific modifier, but you can just negotiate which one you want to use via your fairmaster, which is a role that has more detail later.
So far, I haven't tread new ground, but this is why we have to tie things back into characters: our characters in crusader kings want these goods and they want to consume them/use them. This is where things get juicy: every court has a inspired courtier that is working on producing a resource item.
2. Resource Items
This is basically repacking the artifact inspiration system, but tying it to your local resource: producing agriculture means you're corresponding with the village headman, trade goods with a guildsman, or a center of trade with a fairmaster. He's to add the character to whatever you're making, but will be consistently there for you, year after year, unless he or she has disappointed you can you want to replace him with someone who is more skilled and able.
Speaking of artifacts, I know there's some grumbles about inventory management, but I think a new inventory type is necessary to representing this goods to avoid bloating your artifact inventory, potentially just as a tab that can be switched to from the artifact inventory, as a 3x5 or a 4x4 grid. Nonetheless, these items would then be used to represent the actual flow of goods by person: most importantly, like artifacts, these, too, would have their own quality and effects (on use), while durability affects some things more than others (high quality flour still has a shelf limit; diamonds are forever). But these resources would also have a unique quality to them: Charges.
Instead of clogging up your grid with multiples of the same item, resources represent a gross product that can be used over time: a herd of Angus beef from Scotland can be used for several feasts, whereas a limited production of Wootz Steel can only be used in the production of one sword. And I say limited production of steel because production can vary over years; to add some variability, quality, effects, and charge quantity can change for each resource produced. There can be events that affect these outcomes like any artifact: storms keeping sailors from collecting pearls, heavy khareef monsoons flooding the incense fields, a blight ruining the wheat field with the best grains, a collapse in the salt mines; conversely, your sheep could be very fertile this year, fair weather for better spice cultivation, hunters chancing upon a very fine bear, extra silk worms smuggled out of China, etc. However, there should be some relative consistency in what you produce: Norwegian spruce should produce better quality lumber than Cornwall's forests (unless I'm unfamiliar about Cornish wood, then I apologize).
Of course, you have to spend money to make money: after producing the resource, you can then talk with your courtier about what you're going to do for your next cycle: will you put the money down to try to do things the same way, will you pay them more to try something different, or will you pay them less and threaten them to do better?
It is then important that resources be tied in the various actions that people already do in-game. Connect charges to events, schemes, weddings, hosting court, feasts, hunting, warfare, and other events. They should be used consistently that they are a regular feature of the game, but not spammy enough that nobody cares about any of the items you get because they all blend together; different resources should fill different roles but could also be used in similar situations. Classifications like sheep, goats, and cattle as mobile resources that are easily looted (as was common in Ireland and the various highlands, but are also food items that can be slaughtered and served at a feast alongside wine or fine breads, wheras certain mines produce certain kinds of jewels that are prized across the world.
For a majority of resources, this is the end. We got items, now we consume them in various actions, or gift them to someone else for some utility. The key drive for these resource items is that they should be involved in efforts that are cheap enough to do commonly so as to expend charges regularly and not fill up your resource inventory.
However, there are some goods that this isn't the end: what about the refinement process? What if I've got excess and want to make some money off of them?
3. Refinement of Goods and sale of products
For certain goods, all you need to do is procure them and now they're in your stockpile. You can use that ivory when you finally get an inspired courtier trying to make a throne, or you can sell your eels to your liege, as he wants something to show off at a feast so he can die and throw the kingdom into anarchy. But, for other resources, you've now got 3 good bushels of wool and, though you might try, it's not good eating. To trade, you have to rely on other people wanting your goods, so it turns out that there are counts who control lands who produce cloth: either they can seek you out to buy your wool, you can seek them out and establish a Trade Relationship, or you can just list your stuff to a center of trade and they can get it from the local fairmaster.
That sounds like a lot, so I'll break it down,as, quite frankly, this is the most difficult part of this idea because it relies a lot on having a cooperative AI. The fairmaster sounds like the most easiest option of just having an established market to dump things in, but having a direct Trade Relationship is the most important character-developing part of this.
- If you produce unrefined goods goods
- If you want to refine raw goods
Note: I feel there should be a new level of artifact below Common to represent creating an abysmally bad job, which is basically just a failure on investment--which is an natural part of business risk, as the struggle to not lose money should always be out there.
- Centers of Trade
Meanwhile, owning a Center of Trade can put you in charge of A LOT of resources, which sounds like a lot of terrible micromanagement, but goods not sold after a set period of time will be sold anonymously on the cheap (ie, removed from the game to prevent bloat and keep the fairmaster's inventory open). Rather than have excess goods go to waste, this is where Trade Network relationships come in: rather than do all the nitty gritty of transporting goods, you can simply buy goods at that respective Center of Trade at the fraction of the distance cost, which is correlated into tax calculation. But the thing about networks is that they link: having a Network with one Center of Trade gives you connections to that CoT's Networks and that CoT'S Networks and that CoT's networks, etc. While you have preference with your particular connection, it'll eventually be Kevin Bacon with your network of trade into China, but you'll be getting the tail end of how expensive goods are to ship all the way over. Though this might sound like it's not worth the effort because you'll end up at the same place, but its price impacts on the local Producing Lord and Refining Lord are not to be understated, and relationships between lords due to their Trade Network are fragile, and can be broken by wars interrupting them, or rivalries causing them to end.
Drawing back in Merchant Republics from CK2, basically the larger powers should be directing their Network towards you as you fight with your rivals to take over their Networks.
Historic regions and cities could get bonsues their their Trade Networks but I don't know what that'd entail besides a lot of numbers crunching. The hope of Networks is that English wool can be networked to Flanders which is then refined and sold to the Champagne Fairs.
4. Secondary Goods
Why two? Because the economy in 867 isn't the same as 1066 or 1356 . Crusader Kings is a game about dynamism and so this is a way to help things adjust with time if you want have York, Gloucester, or even Boston usurp London as the center of English commerce. This basically gives a fallback option that can be adjusted based on events without directly altering the state of things; kinda like how the Cultural and Religious Minorities mod adds Minor and Major minorities to provinces, these don't do anything until you turn them into the majority in the province. You start the game producing grain and have a minor cattle resource, but, after a series of bad blights that look like you won't have another successful harvest for another decade, you can switch your major focus to cattle instead, so as long as you keep the border reivers from stealing them. Or, for the early starts, there are places that could be working in grain with a minor in cloth production that switch to focusing on the new vertical looms in the 11th century, as urbanization and industrialization changed society during the time frame of Crusader Kings. Otherwise, if your development far outpaces your neighbors, you could as well become a new Center of Trade, allowing for dynamic commercial hubs.
5. Resource Contracts
These were rather limited on a historic level, bout could provide some interesting use of resources, exchanging part of your feudal obligations for a Trade Relationship, securing a regular exchange of a resource to your lord/extracting them from your vassal, as a good bottle of wine is worth its weight in manpower. However, lieges usually have high expectation and so this contract is negotiated for masterworks, famed, or illustrious resources, with penalties levied upon you if you fail to meet your Trade Relationship.
This might be a bit too complicated or annoying to keep track of, but, basically an option to freely receive a resource that would otherwise be expensive to buy yourself at the price of that vassal's autonomy, whereas integrating what vassals are already doing to produce resources and give them a different way to expend them.
6. Example of various uses for resources and events
- Requiring you to spend one charge of a food resource to host a feast
- The food resource's modifier then gets applied to all attendees of the feast, inspiring one to seek out and maintain a Trade Relationship to obtain good quality products
- Comfort Eater requiring you to purchase and supply a certain kind of food resource
- Requiring you to spend one charge from a material resource to start an inspiration of your choice
- Spending a charge from a material resource to repair an artifact
- Spending charges from a material resource to produce a better quality artifact
- Instating a new fashion at court requires you to adjust your Trade Network with a new cloth-producing Center of Trade for it to be a successful chain
- Donating paper, wax (candles), or incense to your important priest to better their learning skills (so you don't have to just always kill them to get a better one)
- Events related to gaining and expending charges of resources during war; seizing a surplus of bread from your opponents would do well to refilling an army's supplies
- Expending hunting birds to go hawking while on a hunt
- Can scheme to Disrupt Trade Relationship against another producer of your type of good, which can escalate into warfare or stealing their profits
- Can otherwise scheme to tarnish image of a rival Producer Lord
- Resources are much easier to gift to others instead of relying solely on gold to improve opinions
- Wars crossing into your land can disrupt the inspiration/ruin its quality, encouraging players (and the AI) to protect their lands and their economic output
- Courtiers with a bit of cash can buy spare weapons or armor dumped into a fairmaster's inventory to be better
- Court event as two producers of the same product challenge their liege over who makes the better quality good, starting a house feud between the two
- Access to the sea can be created and/or silted up, enhancing or ruining a Center of Trade
- Profligate loses stress for purchasing high priced items from a fairmaster
- An event regarding a sudden hunger for a food good, requiring you to buy and consume a charge of it within a year or face a stress penalty
- Fairmasters and guildsmen rising up and fighing for more authority against the less-economically minded masters
| is equipped/consumed by the lord, or given to another lord | ||
| is delivered to a liege as a Resource Contract -> | is equipped/consumed by the liege, or given to another lord is delivered to a Refiner lord as a part of a Trade Relationship is sold to a fairmaster runs out of durability and has to be trashed | |
| A Producer Lord uses their inspired courtier to produce a resource -> | is delivered to a Refiner Lord as a part of a Trade Relationship and is refined by their inspired courtier -> | is is delivered to a liege as a Resource Contract ^ is equipped/consumed by the Refiner lord is sold to a fairmaster runs out of durability and has to be trashed |
| is sold to a fairmaster -> | is purchased by someone (most likely nearby or in a city with a Trade Network) is anonymously sold off and eliminated from the game | |
| runs out of durability and has to be trashed |
Anyways, that's enough design document ideas and beating a dead horse
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