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ribbon22 said:
yeah, there shouldn't be anything wrong with putting "Great Britain" down on the maybe tag list. Now we just need to get Rodz' attention...
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Once you spell my name right, maybe I'll come when you call :D

I added the great britain thing to the "maybe"

This list, unlike the TAG thread one, is just for discussion, remember people. It's not REALLY redundant, as it's a nice shiny uncluttered thread for people o discuss this
 
For japan i'd like:
[Eastern] Shogunate (Between Takeda, Uyesugi or Hojo)
[Western] Shougunate (Between Ouchi, Mori, or Hosokawa)
Oda Shogunate (Historical)

Any of them could have united Japan. Oda just happened to get lucky that 2 of the 3 major rivals died before they attacked him.
 
ribbon22 said:
yeah, there shouldn't be anything wrong with putting "Great Britain" down on the maybe tag list. Now we just need to get Rodz' attention...
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Here are my thoughts on the following possible tags:

Great Britain: I'm not against it, but what is the value of using a tag for this, other than seeing the name of the nation as Great Britain instead of England? I see historical representation or scripting advanages in the below. Are there any I'm missing for a GBR tag?

Lancaster: Included in latest beta and forthcoming Crusader Kings, it is planned to be utilized in a reworking of the War of the Roses

York: Included in latest beta and forthcoming Crusader Kings, it is planned to be utilized in a reworking of the War of the Roses

England-France (Plantagenet Empire): Very useful in developing a monsterous chain of fantasy events dealing with an English Victory in the HYW.

Additional Irish States: Included in latest beta and forthcoming Crusader Kings. As with other tags that are being added in CK, I am against using for any nation other than the one they were created for. Mainly because I don't think we should make our mod incompatable with CK.
 
Aside from the historical correctness of it, it means that flavour events that an independent Scotland would get can be given to Great Britain without worrying about who should get them, England or Scotland, since Great Britain requires the non-existance of Scotland.

Also, having a tag for Great Britain makes it like virtually all the other countries that formed from groups of other nations such as France, Russia and Spain in that ahistorically strong Minors can form it. A Scotland that became more powerful than England before the Act of Union can then form Great Britain, as can Wales and possibly Ireland.
 
Snin said:
Aside from the historical correctness of it, it means that flavour events that an independent Scotland would get can be given to Great Britain without worrying about who should get them, England or Scotland, since Great Britain requires the non-existance of Scotland.

Also, having a tag for Great Britain makes it like virtually all the other countries that formed from groups of other nations such as France, Russia and Spain in that ahistorically strong Minors can form it. A Scotland that became more powerful than England before the Act of Union can then form Great Britain, as can Wales and possibly Ireland.
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I should of had a V-8! Now I see it. I was being too England centered in my thinking...thanks Sinn.
 
Lord Tarleton said:
As with other tags that are being added in CK, I am against using for any nation other than the one they were created for. Mainly because I don't think we should make our mod incompatable with CK.
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I understand what you are saying, but no scenerio will be compatable with the CK export files except stuff in the main folder without serious work and even then its not guaranteed 100% bug-free.
 
Jinnai said:
I understand what you are saying, but no scenerio will be compatable with the CK export files except stuff in the main folder without serious work and even then its not guaranteed 100% bug-free.
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I have nothing against moving AGCEEP into the main folder...I never play the basic game anyway. :D

And believe me, if there is a way to make it work, I will. I've got my heart set on some 800 years of history in the making...errr playing. ;)
 
You may not have a problem with it, but many do, for more reasons than one.

Even if it would be it would be so far down the road right now...but i really don't think its possible...atleast within europe...changing stuff outside europe is fine, but inside could be a nightmare beyond compare...
 
*nods* It's just not worth it, IMHO.
 
I think one of the goals of the AGCEEP should be to encourage use of the import feature from CK to EU2. As this has the potential to bring the excitement a new game generates into our project. It may never be perfect, but I believe it is in our interests and in the interests of Paradox to do this.
 
Jinnai said:
Another problem is we'd also have to make basically a new scenerio from 1453-1820.

But no i don't agree with it unless its fairly simple to do so.
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Yes, another scenario may well be required (I'd be surprised if it wasn't). As for how simple it will be, we'll have to wait and see. I think it is a goal that should be pushed for, not necessarily one that has to be achieved. If the import feature comes up short, then it falls to the community to let Johan know. After all, it's more in Paradox's interests than our for this to work well, as it would encourage all EU players to buy CK and vice-versa.
 
Jinnai said:
Worth keeping it CK compatable or worth using the tags for whatever?
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It's not worth trying to keep it CK compatible.
 
I'm inclined to agree. We have no idea how the import feature will work - it may be impossible to use it in moddir, and I am definitely opposed to overwriting the main folder. I could perhaps be convinced that we should wait until we see how the import feature works before deciding not to try to use it, but I suspect that we'll quickly see that it's impractical.
 
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Jinnai said:
Another problem is we'd also have to make basically a new scenerio from 1453-1820.
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Good. One question I keep coming back to is why, oh why, do we insist on using the original Paradox start date of January 1, 1419? It just doesn't strike me as a good date to start with. Too many events in flux. The obvious dates to me are:

1370 - Ming China just kicked out the Mongols; HYW in a relative lull; Timurid Empire just about to explode onto the scene.

1436 - HYW climax is passed; end of naval China period.

1453 - Turks established in Constantinople; HYW over; Timurid Empire splintered.

You could definitely argue that 1436 isn't worth the trouble, and there should just be a 1453 scenario.

Jinnai said:
But no i don't agree with it unless its fairly simple to do so.
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I agree that the standard AGCEEP should not try to be CK-compatible. That would require not using any of the CK import tags for anything but their expressed purpose, and it would require some very generalized event scripting for the first hundred years or so, which could steer events toward something historical. But making a CK-import friendly 1453 scenario should be possible. Ideally, I'd like to have the following AGCEEP scenarios:

- 1370, the very GC
- 1419, the GC (only since we've got so much work done on it already)
- 1436, the more stable GC (perhaps moved to 1453, but still distinct from the one below)
- 1453, the CK-import friendly GC
- 1526, the MP balanced GC

And perhaps some later scenarios for those who want to play Holland, the USA, or Napoleon.
 
I think that it would be a huge mistake to make a CK compatible 1453 scenario alongside a CK incompatible 1419/1520 scenario. The amount of work I forsee trying to get events that make sense when you start from either date with entirely different use of tags etc is mindboggling.

I'd suggest that either they both be compatible or neither be compatible.

And we'll have enough trouble getting the events etc. to work out for the 2 dates we currently have. Adding scenarios, and getting it right is a ton of work in it's own right.
 
I doubt a CK export would work very fine with any mod. Actually, when I think about it.. the historical events for vanilla EU2 would be silly for most cases as well..
 
I guess the bottom line is that a CK export mod would be, for a variety of reasons (inconsistent European map, fixed but unchangeable ROTW map, can't use CK tags for anything but their expressed purpose, no control over province religions/goods/taxvalues), a completely different project. Tying such a project to the AGCEEP would probably be pointless.

A new mod based on the CK export files could be created, and it could borrow heavily from the AGCEEP events, especially in the ROTW and late in the game in Europe. But I suppose I agree with Isaac that attempting to package such a mod as part of the AGCEEP is a waste of time. It's a different project, period.

So, in my perfect world, the AGCEEP would have scenarios in 1370, 1453, 1526, and some later dates - probably 1581 (independent Holland), 1648 (end of the Thirty Years' War, Manchu China in place), and 1714 (end of the War of the Spanish Succession).
 
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