New supply system is cool, but why are the devs adding new features when the AI cant handle the current ones?

[Idle America]

My guess is, they've got a list of core features they've planned on adding slowly over time, in order to ease the game into it. When most or all of these core mechanics are implemented, then they'll fix up the AI, instead of having to reconfigure it every time they add a new big feature.

At the moment, the AI is at the very least functional, as opposed to immediate post-release a few years back. While certainly not at the level we'd like it to be at, the game is at least playable, allowing them to expand to their planned state.

Just a theory, but it's worth noting I know next to nothing about programming.

 

[Simon_9732495]

My guess is, they've got a list of core features they've planned on adding slowly over time

That’s the HOI4 Roadmap -> Link laid out by the game director podcat.

 

[Kadanz]

I would give the new system a try before singing swan songs of the AI not being able to use it. Let them roll out the stuff, give the players time for testing and feedback (maybe the spiffing brit will find nice exploits) and then patch, polish, rinse and repeat. Game is growing and with trains and supply hubs it is a good way it is moving towards.

This is pretty much the standard response every time concerns are brought up: "wait until you've actually played it". Every time the concerns were justified however. Every rework so far has left the AI been unable to utilize it properly. The AI still naval invades without much thinking even after multiple patches trying to 'tweak' it. But it would be unfair to say the game hasn't improved from its initial release. It has.

This game is suffering from its initial design philosophy: An arcade casual multiplayer meme simulator. To paradox immense credit however, what hasn't wavered is their impeccable mod support for their games.

A supply rework really has to come with a complete battleplanner rework. The WWI style offensives we have had since release will render this rework pretty much moot if it stays the way it is. I will reserve judgement when the DD on this actually arrives, but past experiences with previous 'reworks' has left me with a lot of concerns if it will actually change the game for the better or just another frustrating system that looks shiny from the outside.

 

[bitmode]

My guess is, they've got a list of core features they've planned on adding slowly over time, in order to ease the game into it. When most or all of these core mechanics are implemented, then they'll fix up the AI, instead of having to reconfigure it every time they add a new big feature.

Doing something at the very last moment is just another way of saying it has the absolute lowest priority.
Whatever happens last in the game's development is most likely to get cut and if done, will be seen by the smallest number of players.
Not to mention that the AI should inform design decisions in many other areas.

I will reserve judgement when the DD on this actually arrives

Better reserve judgement for when someone reviews the release.

 

[GrandVezir]

Doing something at the very last moment is just another way of saying it has the absolute lowest priority.

Or it means that it's the most critical system, not to be messed with while tinkering with other systems. The Royal Navy endlessly delayed refitting HMS Hood because it was their most important ship, not the least. (I just hope that the analogy stops there.)

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

My guess is, they've got a list of core features they've planned on adding slowly over time, in order to ease the game into it. When most or all of these core mechanics are implemented, then they'll fix up the AI, instead of having to reconfigure it every time they add a new big feature.

I do know software development. And that is a reasonable explanation. Though planning that many years ahead isn't normal from my perspective, congrats to them if it is the case. More likely they attempted to fix the AI, realized that the core mechanic changes required a rework of the AI fixes, and decided on a do it later policy. Could also explain the approach to fixing bugs.

 

[MJAnderson]

Not sure how i need to see or read this. A game can be as near to WWII as its developer allows. If i look to the focus tree and all events well it very near simulation WWII. The whole point in this thread is about the AI. So how must i read you comment? We need improvement in the AI or the whole game isn’t a WWII simulation game?

(To my believe this is one of the best WWII games around. Not perfect, that’s where many people are talking about and trying to improve. But well... no games is perfect because games are just like Microsoft Windows... full of bugs )

Wow I'm surprised so many people disagree. I thought that was pretty standard feelings. I read a review of the game in a list of "best WW2 simulations" and even they stated that it's not really a WW2 game but a mid-20th century wargame.

If you look at a focus tree only about 1/3-1/2 are "very nearly simulation WWII" and the rest are alternative scenarios. In a WW2 simulation the soviet AI can be programmed to focus on the front with Germany. In Hoi4 it has to be written to accommodate a communist German ally and a fascist Chinese/American alliance as the aggressor. Because the AI has to be so open ended, it ends up doing a terrible job. Even if you want to play a historical game the AI can't accommodate it. By creating a game that can't make any assumptions to point the AI in the right direction the whole thing falls apart.

 

[SRhistory]

Wow I'm surprised so many people disagree. I thought that was pretty standard feelings. I read a review of the game in a list of "best WW2 simulations" and even they stated that it's not really a WW2 game but a mid-20th century wargame.

If you look at a focus tree only about 1/3-1/2 are "very nearly simulation WWII" and the rest are alternative scenarios. In a WW2 simulation the soviet AI can be programmed to focus on the front with Germany. In Hoi4 it has to be written to accommodate a communist German ally and a fascist Chinese/American alliance as the aggressor. Because the AI has to be so open ended, it ends up doing a terrible job. Even if you want to play a historical game the AI can't accommodate it. By creating a game that can't make any assumptions to point the AI in the right direction the whole thing falls apart.

Thanks! This makes more sense and I can understand you comment better now and can reply on it. I agree with you that round 1/2 of the game focus tree creates a "near simulation of WWII". About the AI part... well it's as good as the programmer makes it. Maybe the reason for so many mods. So i hope we get some improvements in the AI to handle at least the new supplier system and keeps playing against the AI interesting.

Again thanks for clearing you comment up. Was a bit too short-sighted and a bit of topic to make anything out of it. (Maybe the reason so many people disagree with it.)