New supply system is cool, but why are the devs adding new features when the AI cant handle the current ones?

  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Space Exploration Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off

    How's the space on your hard drive? Paradox wants to challenge your galaxy brain with a great selection of space exploration games - and they're all on sale for some very down-to-earth prices! The sale runs from May 4th until May 10th at 17:00 CEST / 08:00 PDT.


    May 4th - May 10th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Question

General
Jun 11, 2019
1.904
2.637
I would give the new system a try before singing swan songs of the AI not being able to use it. Let them roll out the stuff, give the players time for testing and feedback (maybe the spiffing brit will find nice exploits) and then patch, polish, rinse and repeat. Game is growing and with trains and supply hubs it is a good way it is moving towards.

It really is de ja vu all over again. I saw the exact same posts before the EU4 Emperor DLC was released. Strangely, all these people who keep saying "wait and see" before every DLC release are NOWHERE to be seen when the forums are flooded by complaints that the DLC broke a key feature or the AI after release.
 
Last edited:
  • 7
  • 6
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Simon_9732495

Lt. General
24 Badges
Feb 28, 2020
1.240
2.736
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
And how’s your “they will surely fail” helpful?

The train for the next expansion has departed. Saying the DEVs will fail, will not make it stop.
 
Last edited:
  • 16
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Question

General
Jun 11, 2019
1.904
2.637
And how’s your “they will surely fail” helpful?

The train for the next expansion has departed. Saying the DEVs will fail, will not make it stop.

Probably the same reason why Hartmann spoke up and insisted the F-104 Starfighter was not suitable for the post war Luftwaffe even though the decision had already been made to buy them. Someone needed to point out the elephant in the room.

Who knows, maybe this thread will motivate the devs to make the rework an actual success instead of making things worse (which again, is what usually happens when Paradox reworks something).
 
  • 6
  • 5
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Emren

Brigadier General
65 Badges
Feb 27, 2001
1.375
720
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
when modders can do better than Paradox in terms of AI then what is Paradox doing with their dev time exactly?
As far as I have understood, modders are completely unable to make the AI any smarter (making meta templates available to the AI doesn't make it smarter, you know). Which mod makes the Al stop moving its heavy tank divisions into mountains and suffer horrendous attrition? Which mod has made the AI use airdrops? Scripting the AI through events isn't making it any smarter, either.
 
Last edited:
  • 9Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Deliberus

Major
7 Badges
Jun 22, 2020
507
1.119
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
The devs have never bothered to make the AI build infra properly since the game was released.

Now you expect them to make the AI build supply hubs, trucks AND trains properly?
See what I said previously. As for the AI, it should absolutely be working every patch and that'll be be my expectation as well, though let's be honest it will most likely won't be.
That is just wishful thinking. If your employee cant even show up on time for work a single day in the last 5 years, do you trust him to manage a large corporate event? You sure as heck would not.
Then I would have long ago replaced him with someone better. And anyway how are those even remotely comparable?
Mark my words, when the DLC is released, the forum and subreddit will be flooded by people going "the AI is killing itself with the new supply system" posts followed by people going "lol what did you expect, hoi4 AI has always done that" and "were you seriously expecting good AI from paradox?".
Absolutely agree with you and I'll grab my popcorn when it does. But again, let's put things into perspective, DLCs are planned far ahead of time. That to-do list that was posted way back when, showed exactly what was going to be changed over the game's lifespan.

Yes AI should be working every patch but, realistically that'll be wasted time when it comes time for reworks hence why they don't bother (if they bother at all that is).

That's not excusing them, that's explaining why things are the way they are.
 

Deliberus

Major
7 Badges
Jun 22, 2020
507
1.119
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
As far as I have understood, modders are completely unable to make the AI any smarter (making meta templates available to the AI doesn't make it smarter, you know). Which AI makes the Al stop moving its heavy tank divisions into mountains and suffer horrendous attrition? Which mod has made the AI use airdrops? Scripting the AI through events isn't making it any smarter, either.
So making the AI not concentrate on doctrine research is not smart?
Not making 40W divisions isn't smart?
AI focusing production isn't smart?

Excuse me?

The only problems that modders haven't solved is how to make the AI properly use its stuff which it does a horrible job at.

Yes it's not perfect but that wasn't what we were talking about. I pointed out that the ExpertAI is better than Paradox AI.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Simon_9732495

Lt. General
24 Badges
Feb 28, 2020
1.240
2.736
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
Who knows, maybe this thread will motivate the devs to make the rework an actual success instead of making things worse (which again, is what usually happens when Paradox reworks something).
Ok now I get it.

If the new supply has problems you have always said this will happen.

If the new supply is great you motivated the DEVs...

Win-Win

Maybe people should come to your work place and tell you that what you have done in the past was bad and what you are going to do will fail to “motivate” you.

Jokes aside:
Do you REALLY think what you’re doing here is motivating?
 
  • 9
  • 6Haha
  • 5
Reactions:

Emren

Brigadier General
65 Badges
Feb 27, 2001
1.375
720
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
So making the AI not concentrate on doctrine research is not smart?
Not making 40W divisions isn't smart?
AI focusing production isn't smart?

Excuse me?

The only problems that modders haven't solved is how to make the AI properly use its stuff which it does a horrible job at.

Yes it's not perfect but that wasn't what we were talking about. I pointed out that the ExpertAI is better than Paradox AI.
My first comment was on buffs vs smarter play. I think what you are pointing out is neither. I'm not saying that there's no point in modding the game - just that the AI mods don't actually make the AI play smarter. It's more like helping it to play a certain meta - in my humble opinion, of course.
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:

Algarde

Sergeant
35 Badges
Feb 28, 2020
81
123
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Starvoid
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Because Paradox needs to sell something and it's simple to add new things than totally rewrite and fix the whole IA. Profit.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Deliberus

Major
7 Badges
Jun 22, 2020
507
1.119
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
My first comment was on buffs vs smarter play. I think what you are pointing out is neither. I'm not saying that there's no point in modding the game - just that the AI mods don't actually make the AI play smarter. It's more like helping it to play a certain meta - in my humble opinion, of course.
Your subjective opinion is objectively incorrect
 
  • 10
Reactions:

ep1c_fail

Captain
42 Badges
Jun 5, 2015
349
284
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
People said the exact same thing with the EU4 Emperor DLC and oh...every paradox DLC ever...how many of those actually fixed issues instead of making things worse? Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

EU4's "colonial nation rework" DLC also broke the colonial nation AI which still remains unfixed more than 5 years later. Paradox's "reworks" are well known to make things worse.

Right here, in this very forum, you can find countless posts about how MTG has made the AI worse in handling the naval aspect of the game. There is plenty of precedent for this.

You can always roll back to a previous patch. Of course there is the possibility that the AI won't be suited to this new system, but it's unlikely to be worse than the game breaking supply zone flooding we're currently experiencing.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Goodfontana

Sergeant
7 Badges
Sep 16, 2020
76
435
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
I'm not concerned at all about how the AI will manage supply. We know, because they themselves said it, that they have no AI guy, so no changes are being made there. This leaves only 1 possible solution, which is the same that is already in place: give enormous buffs to supply to the AI.

Right now you can see 50 AI divisions in 1 province not attritioning because of this, which I suspect is what causes an ally AI to flood your frontline with troops and destroy your supply: because from their perspective there's no supply issue.

My main concern is precisely that this could create an even bigger disadvantage for the player when fighting in low supply areas. You currently can avoid that by building infrastructure, increase the level of ports, and of course not calling any allied AI to your war, but the thing I dread is that with these changes, you'll have an even tougher time supplying your troops in the frontline while the AI won't, making also any potential strategies that rely on disrupting their supply useless, and giving them a very unfair advantage.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about it, or maybe they are considering this and have already think of a solution, we'll have to wait and see
 
  • 9Like
Reactions:

DocDesastro

Colonel
58 Badges
Jul 2, 2011
1.143
733
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Island Bound
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
Well..this I cannot believe. I mean...wouldn't they run simulations of AI vs. AI? I just do not like to see the "just buff" solution as deus ex machina solution to all. MP ill definitively profit of the new mechanisms.
 

Rashie

Major
65 Badges
Jun 13, 2015
560
686
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Assuming the new system that they're doing to fix old issues will be just as broken right out of the gate before we've even seen it in action even once is just needless cynicism.

I'm all for shitting on broken mechanics if they turn out to be so, but come on, isn't this a little premature?
 
  • 9
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

qer

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 12, 2011
1.149
1.072
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Rome Gold
  • Cities: Skylines
I have zero hope that the Ai will be more competent in the new system, specially if it keeps using things like the battle planner.

On the plus side if I turn to be wrong better for everyone, but we will need to wait and see.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:

TheMeInTeam

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Dec 27, 2013
28.100
13.982
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
If the developers know that they're going to be changing core systems of the game then why would they update the ones that are going to be replaced?

Also I doubt it stems from ignorance, but rather a priority list...
Given past patching priority list, there is absolutely zero trust right now.

Part of that lack of trust is because said patch history includes disregarding numerous areas where the game straight up lies to the player. Another part is that interactions as far back as WTT still don't work. Hard to overlook war score/control of territory/peace conferences too, or to trust any improvements there.

That said, I do hope these things are improved, including supply (which, while a problem, is bonkers to prioritize over the above). It's hard to be hopeful, but I want the game to be good. As opposed to troops attacking literally away from the front line while I'm penalized for not using said front line etc.

Assuming the new system that they're doing to fix old issues will be just as broken right out of the gate before we've even seen it in action even once is just needless cynicism.

Earned cynicism. I hope it's wrong, but it's certainly been earned. This is the same patch priority that made the UI inputs for controlling divisions strictly worse (on purpose!), and previously overhauls like naval (still some odd metas there) and 3 way wars (still broken, outright) don't give us any cause for optimism.
 
  • 7
  • 4Like
  • 2
Reactions:

Emren

Brigadier General
65 Badges
Feb 27, 2001
1.375
720
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
So making the AI not concentrate on doctrine research is not smart?
Not making 40W divisions isn't smart?
AI focusing production isn't smart?

Excuse me?

The only problems that modders haven't solved is how to make the AI properly use its stuff which it does a horrible job at.

Yes it's not perfect but that wasn't what we were talking about. I pointed out that the ExpertAI is better than Paradox AI.
Sorry, I usually never double quote a post, but I thought that the sentence I have bolded above is exactly my point: Modders are unable to make the AI smarter in moving its units around. Sorry if that was not clear from my original reply about modders.
 

El_Ploplo

Sergeant
83 Badges
May 20, 2019
64
66
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Victoria 2
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
What's the point of working on the A.I if you know the system needs to be revamped and will make the work of the A.I no longer relevant. It is better to overhaul the current system first (which is broken) then work on the A.I not the other way around !
 

Th3master

Rear Admiral
53 Badges
Aug 10, 2014
219
238
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
Who knows, maybe this thread will motivate the devs to make the rework an actual success instead of making things worse (which again, is what usually happens when Paradox reworks something).
doubt. most of this thread is just trashing on the devs for an AI that has actually gotten a lot better since release. There aren't actually any massive issues with AI outside of supply and how it uses whatever to attack. The templates and production are easy to change and have been modded in better. The AI isn't Stephen Hawking, but it is good enough to at least beat newer players and with mods can beat some experienced players as well.
 
  • 12
  • 7
Reactions:

ETAIPOS

Major
42 Badges
Jan 13, 2008
524
414
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
doubt. most of this thread is just trashing on the devs for an AI that has actually gotten a lot better since release. There aren't actually any massive issues with AI outside of supply and how it uses whatever to attack. The templates and production are easy to change and have been modded in better. The AI isn't Stephen Hawking, but it is good enough to at least beat newer players and with mods can beat some experienced players as well.

Well, you are right, the original AI was so bad that I was able to defeat Axis (Germany and Italy) as Poland in time to move troops to east and promptly defeat Soviet Union.

But the big "AI" change that made Germany much stronger was actually change that railroaded AI from semi historical production priorities to ones much more fitting WW1 style of warfare imprinted in HoI4 battle planer.
In short, tank and bomber production was deprioritized in favor of artillery and fighters and doctrine was changed from boosted tanks (MW-R) to one boosting inf (MW-L). As result German AI army is composed of nigh-unbreakable (over 70 org) 27w infantry divisions ( 9xInf, 3xArt) and a few Panzers that will quickly run out of tanks, while Luftwaffe is 3000 Ftr and some 500 bombers.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions: