Naval Plans for the World's Naval Powers

[xtfoster]

Very informative! But as I played in HOI 3, there is a Drzki, but battleship. There is also a carrier or...cruiser - Nadegda. Also a TP flottilla. But I didn't know so much for Bulgaria's flottilla in real life. I only know the names of a few of the torpedo boats - Drzki, Smeli, Letyashti and I think Shumiashti. Thx again!

Drzki (also transliterated as Drazki or Druzki for 'Intrepid') was a 97 ton MTB of the 'Daring'-class built in France and completed in Bulgaria. The other ships of the class were the Smeli (Brave), Hrabri (Valiant), Shumni (Noisy), Letyashti (Flying), and Strogi (Stern).

I can't find anything on a modern warship called the Nadegda. There was a Bulgarian Sloop-of-war called the Nadegda, and there is currently a Russian flagged passenger ship with that name, but that is it as far as I can tell.

 

[Sir Garnet]

ya no

seriously though
If it was just about info, we would have a few pages of stickies, which is why this one won't be. If however someone thinks we should do a megathread of general info... maybe

A sub-forum for WW2 historical data threads separated into categories where valuable threads could be relocated and preserved for easy discovery and reference would be more manageable and directly useful, and provide a narrower and more relevant scope for search attempts.

 

[Secret Master]

A sub-forum for WW2 historical data threads separated into categories where valuable threads could be relocated and preserved for easy discovery and reference would be more manageable and directly useful, and provide a narrower and more relevant scope for search attempts.

You know that post is from September of last year, right? I'm sure Had a dad has forgotten he even said that by now.

 

[Sir Garnet]

My focus was entirely on the point, not its vintage. Getting information of continuing value organized seems esp. timely with HOI 4 landing in 6 weeks.

 

[Axe99]

A sub-forum for WW2 historical data threads separated into categories where valuable threads could be relocated and preserved for easy discovery and reference would be more manageable and directly useful, and provide a narrower and more relevant scope for search attempts.

As an aside (I follow this thread, which I suspect isn't a huge surprise) something like this would probably be quite handy, particularly for people new to the forums/modding/looking into these things. Even if it was just a post with links to other threads in it (which is one way to get to this thread from within the HoI3 forums - so it could be possible to copy the links to threads that would still be relevant to HoI4 and put them in another thread, so quick'n'easy), I'm sure it'd be a help to new folk who aren't aware of what's floating around in the HoI3 forums.

 

[Secret Master]

When the time is right, I might copy the information over. I'm not doing it early, though. And I'm not making a sticky. Had a dad's response is right on target.

Besides, no on reads stickies anyway. This thread gets more traffic because it's not a sticky.

 

[TheBromgrev]

I'll probably just copy the posts into a new thread in the HOI4 forum or its modding sub-forum once the game is released. I'd also be interested in seeing the results of the "can you build the historical fleet on-time" challenge in HOI4.

 

[mosin_nagant]

I'll probably just copy the posts into a new thread in the HOI4 forum or its modding sub-forum once the game is released. I'd also be interested in seeing the results of the "can you build the historical fleet on-time" challenge in HOI4.

Any link to some "can you build the historical fleet on-time" challenge please? Thank you

I would like to see them

 

[Secret Master]

Any link to some "can you build the historical fleet on-time" challenge please? Thank you

I would like to see them

The first page of the thread has links to some of my tests.

But here's one using the US and trying to reach historical targets without abusing conquests and hitting all production targets in all categories.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...lds-naval-powers.529044/page-21#post-16203493

And the sequel:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...lds-naval-powers.529044/page-21#post-16203493

And if you want to know the absolute maximum IC that can be achieved by the US, you can find it here:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...to-play-as-allies.882856/page-6#post-19986932

Never bet against Secret Master when production targets are on the line!

(It's even funnier when you realize half my family are descended from Sicilians...)

 

[RELee]

 

[mosin_nagant]

The first page of the thread has links to some of my tests.

But here's one using the US and trying to reach historical targets without abusing conquests and hitting all production targets in all categories.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...lds-naval-powers.529044/page-21#post-16203493

And the sequel:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...lds-naval-powers.529044/page-21#post-16203493

And if you want to know the absolute maximum IC that can be achieved by the US, you can find it here:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...to-play-as-allies.882856/page-6#post-19986932

Never bet against Secret Master when production targets are on the line!

(It's even funnier when you realize half my family are descended from Sicilians...)

Impressive

 

[Laotze]

I've never questioned US naval building priorities. I knew they built a lot. It was just the sheer number of CVs that surprised me. I mean, it's such a large number that it makes it look like the USA could have lost all carriers that fought at Midway and still have been fine to win the war.

Hardly, most of the carriers were Essex class and put to see well after Midway. What is lost is that US mass produced ships of the cheapest variety. Lots of CVE, CVLs, DDs, etc. They did build battleships prior to the war but I am unaware of any being laid down outside of the Iowa class once the war started. I'm not even sure those weren't laid down before the war either to be honest and BBs were not churned out in six months or even close to a year. Another point is the US only actively fought with 1/3 of its navy at any time. It rotated ships and crews constantly. It is a long hike from San Diego to Pearl and then to an active war zone from there. 1/3 would active, 1/3 would be in route and 1/3 were stationed for shore leave and refits. In HOI a player will take his entire fleet and gangbang the Axis fleets. Completely unrealistic.

 

[Wraith11B]

I feel like a ticker should be introduced for fleets: much like range, they can only be at sea for a certain length of time before requiring port facilities to rearm and refit. The decision to keep them at sea past this time begins to degrade their capabilities, and increases the size of the port that those forces have to be recalled to in order to fully repair the ship.

 

[xtfoster]

Hardly, most of the carriers were Essex class and put to see well after Midway. What is lost is that US mass produced ships of the cheapest variety. Lots of CVE, CVLs, DDs, etc. They did build battleships prior to the war but I am unaware of any being laid down outside of the Iowa class once the war started. I'm not even sure those weren't laid down before the war either to be honest and BBs were not churned out in six months or even close to a year. Another point is the US only actively fought with 1/3 of its navy at any time. It rotated ships and crews constantly. It is a long hike from San Diego to Pearl and then to an active war zone from there. 1/3 would active, 1/3 would be in route and 1/3 were stationed for shore leave and refits. In HOI a player will take his entire fleet and gangbang the Axis fleets. Completely unrealistic.

Depends on your definition of 'before the war'
The Iowa class were ordered and laid down before the US entry to the war (but after the invasion of Poland). They did lay down two BBs after Pearl Harbor (BB-65 USS Illinois and BB-66/BBG-1 USS Kentucky) but neither was commissioned (although the Kentucky was launched to free up dockyard space for repairs to the Missouri) there were plans to convert the Kentucky to a Guided Missile platform (hence the BBG-1) but these never happened either and she was broken up for parts to be used in repairs of other Iowa class ships.
The Essex class was ordered before Pearl Harbor, but only the Essex itself was laid down before Dec 1941. Most of the Independence class were under construction but as Cleveland class (CLs) and were re-ordered as CVLs only after Pearl Harbor.

 

[Axe99]

Hardly, most of the carriers were Essex class and put to see well after Midway. What is lost is that US mass produced ships of the cheapest variety. Lots of CVE, CVLs, DDs, etc. They did build battleships prior to the war but I am unaware of any being laid down outside of the Iowa class once the war started. I'm not even sure those weren't laid down before the war either to be honest and BBs were not churned out in six months or even close to a year. Another point is the US only actively fought with 1/3 of its navy at any time. It rotated ships and crews constantly. It is a long hike from San Diego to Pearl and then to an active war zone from there. 1/3 would active, 1/3 would be in route and 1/3 were stationed for shore leave and refits. In HOI a player will take his entire fleet and gangbang the Axis fleets. Completely unrealistic.

The biggest issue with the US in-game is that if you start building the South Dakotas in 1939, the first are in service before the war starts. Same with the Essex being built much sooner than historically (so if you start building at historic times, you'll have Essex CVs at Midway). By 1944, the US should handily outnumber the IJN even if the IJN don't suffer any losses, but it should take until 1944 that the US can really go to town. In HoI4, with faster ship build times, Japan is on the back foot much sooner (although AI issues outweigh this handily unless the US is a player, and if a player has Japan, it can repeatedly gank the USN on vanilla with little trouble).

I feel like a ticker should be introduced for fleets: much like range, they can only be at sea for a certain length of time before requiring port facilities to rearm and refit. The decision to keep them at sea past this time begins to degrade their capabilities, and increases the size of the port that those forces have to be recalled to in order to fully repair the ship.

Top idea . This would be great, for all navies. It's the same story with German u-boats as well (it was about 1/3 active, 1/3 in port, 1/3 travelling to or fro).

 

[Wraith11B]

I had also recommended (though I don't know where the thread went) that there be a requirement to the number of convoys to keep a fleet at sea for any length of time, say 30 days. The amount of convoys to keep any number of ships fueled and supplied would be on an exponential curve, so to go further than combat range would require additional bases and convoys, with one of the techs in the Naval Doctrine tree increasing the ability for UNREP.

Those two recommendations would both bring a better measure of realism and yet balance into the game.

EDIT: Something I just thought of: how the subs are treated should be an off map (much like the patrol orders) independent cruising (without appropriate techs for Wolfpacking) so you don't wind up losing 20 subs just because they stumbled into some doomstack.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Except when looking for a fight you surged all your carriers you could spare.

 

[Axe99]

EDIT: Something I just thought of: how the subs are treated should be an off map (much like the patrol orders) independent cruising (without appropriate techs for Wolfpacking) so you don't wind up losing 20 subs just because they stumbled into some doomstack.

Aye, I think the sub/convoy attack side of things could do with some work. At the moment, you tend to get 20-40 subs at once bouncing 4-6 convoys, when it was generally the other way around! I've been playing around in the defines, but haven't had a lot of luck - suspect it's something that'll need engine work to get a bit more 'plausible'. Make sure you set your subs to 'do not engage', that should avoid most doomstacks.

 

[Count Blue]

Edit: Deleted

 

[Wraith11B]

We started this in HoI3, but because of Axe99's work in trying to get a more perfect Naval gameplay, we've kept it up since then. It's certainly not necromancy, especially if Secret Master is posting in here himself.