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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

waylit1

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FOR NEW VERSIONS CHECK LAST PAGE

This mod has been taken over for the time being by other contributors. Teotl and Jordarkelf in particular are working to keep this compatible and fix my oversights/incomplete code. Thanks be to them!


Hello and welcome to a mod I hammered out just because it irked me that taking a holding with your enemy and his family in it was meaningless. The purpose here is to make the game more challenging and add significance to character-based strategic decisions.

For instance, since only a Leader of a siege can send HIS family into hiding, it is useful to leave that 3rd pretender son behind to defend your castle. Also, now when your allies set their stack on your capital and don't move, they are doing something (lol)!

The escape from a siege option is set to fire very often, but it won't fire every time. Weigh that decision to hide like a coward justly.

The Hidden In Countryside and Stalwart Defender modifiers each last 2 years. If they run out while a siege is still going, you get to re-choose them. This is a work-around, and this mod was designed with CK2Plus in mind, where sieges RARELY last that long. Think of it like fooling the enemy. ˜_˜

Purdy pictures make people DL your stuff, it is known.
ex2.jpg
ex3.jpgex4.jpg

FEATURES
As siege attacking leader:
-Event to imprison leader and his family, if present.
-Event to release prisoners (all prisoners/all-at-war-with-host/your dynasty only/let em rot!)
-Event to capture the banner of the holding you've taken for a -10op for 1 year. This stacks, use it to insult your enemies! ... or Piss off future vassals.

As siege defending leader:
-Event at start of siege to choose to hide family "in the countryside" or do so yourself in order to escape capture
-During a siege where you have not hidden, you may get 1 or more opportunities to escape to the countryside at great peril (out a postern/out the sewers/down a wall)
-If not at war, and any dynasty at your location is "hidden", decision to unhide them.

Any ruler:
-Can demand his vassals (or their vassals) give him their important prisoners (count and above) via decision.
-NOTE: Mercenaries don't care about your demands. Don't let them lead the centre if you want to get all the important prisoners.

At peace:
-Ruler has decision to remove hiding/stalwart/left_at modifier from dynasty members.


Possible future additions:
1CB to release prisoners
2Plot to hatch escape attempts from the outside
3Prisoner swap decision/eventchain
4Opinion modifiers for family being held prisoner. This would necessitate a prisoner Swap as otherwise both leaders would hate each other too much to ransom vanilla style. More complex than it needs to be, I think. Sometimes you brother languishes in an Arab prison for 10 years. It happens.

CURRENT PLAYTESTING suggests that I only really want #2 in the game. Otherwise, having your relatives languish in a Dubai prison for a decade just happens, yo. If you want to free them, get a casus belli and take their capital.


Installation for vanilla:
-Unzip into mod folder, check box and it plays with Vanilla
-It is directly compatible with ANY MODS that DO NOT use 00_on_actions.txt

Installation for ANY mods using 00_on_actions.txt:
-Simple. Add DnS mod files to the folder of your mod of choice. Go into dns_on_actions.txt and add any lines with #waylit in them to the appropriate spots in the 00_on_actions.txt file for the mod, then delete the dns_on_actions file. Done!

KNOWN ISSUES (gameplay quirks):
-Sometimes the game gets confused when leaders switch during a siege. In general, it seems that the original leader of the siege gets the events at the end of it. So if you besiege a holding with a Mayor at command, and then move your King's army to the location and combine forces, even though it says your King is in command in the siege window, he won't get the events. Seems hardcoded. You have to break siege and re-start it with new commander. Or maybe I was just seeing things...

-In an Allied coalition of attached armies, I believe precedence for command is Rank then Martial. So if you are a King, fighting alongside another King, he may be the one receiving all the prisoners. If it's your war, you will still get 100% warscore for having the enemy imprisoned by an ally, though.

-Defenders of sieges who have chosen to hide are still "leading" the siege. This looks like an unavoidable annoyance unless anybody could tell me how to scope/command somebody to relinquish command of a siege.

-I gave the AI slim chances for certain things, like trying to escape sieges, but nonetheless you will find yourself chuckling at their ineptitude.

-If you own more than one county, and a county other than your capital is besieged, you will warp there to defend it, and get the choice to Defend/Hide. Unfortunately, this doesn't help your family at your capital if you make it out of that siege, but then your capital is besieged...

-The AI takes about a month.5 to clear itself of Stalwart Defender/Hidden. It is possible to catch them unawares after the conclusion of a war and declare war before they get a chance to clear it, preventing them from getting a siege hide option (they are stuck with what they chose for the last war, essentially). This kind of behavior is dishonorable. :shifty:

Thanks to JGCrusader for letting me use his Ransom All decision.

NEW VERSION v 1.5c
DOWNLOAD:

View attachment dnsv1.5c.zip

All versions should be savegame compatible.

V1.5 a/b/c
-fix to ai not using hide/unhide family members
v1.5
-added Escaped Siege modifier +2 int (mainly to let you know why that AI slipped through your grasp!)
-added Kept in Castle mod for dynasty members+1 martial (mainly to let me know the AI indeed chose that option)
-Tightened up Recall from Hiding scopes. There was a nearly unnoticeable bug where lesser vassals would bring their family out of hiding immediately after putting them there!
a
- fixed having the hide your family option if there is no family to hide...
-changed Hidden and Stalwart to 2 years. Some mods have long sieges. Essentially you choose what you will do for that war, and if the war drags on for 2 years, you get to choose again.
v1.4
-Added JGCrusader's decision for player to send ransom requests to all prisoners not of their realm. The requests are sent directly to the prisoner, and if they can't pay then nothing happens. If the prisoner is NOT a ruler, their liege gets an event to pay 10 gold to set them free. NOTE: This is often a GOOD DEAL for the AI, since the unlanded son of a Duke is worth much more than 10 gp. This decision is mostly here to streamline player experience, but you will pay a price for it unless you manually ransom important unlanded prisoners first.

v1.3
-Tightened up scope so that "imprison family" doesn't show up if not family as present to imprison. Whacks out the trait gain probabilities for AI.

v1.2
-Fixed bug where you would imprison dynasty members in your army if you took a dynasty member castle. Big problem for Jimena and Rukovich.

v1.1
-Added decision to remove family from hiding in peacetime.

Mod is still rough as I am not a real modder, just learning the ropes. Please give me any feedback and report any strange circumstances! I couldn't test every case...

PERMISSIONS: Anybody and everybody except for Paradox. Seriously, this should have been in vanilla, so any modders feel free to use this in your mod with credit. If you have balance changes you'd like to make, go ahead, but I would like to discuss them with you just for enlightenment.
 
Last edited:

waylit1

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NEW VERSION. It literally took me 5 minutes to write the decision for Demanding your vassals move important prisoners up the food chain. Added it to v1.1.
 

Nori_Silverrage

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I gotta say this looks pretty awesome.

Prisoner swap would be awesome, though I'm sure it'll take a while to implement. Glad to see you have it on the todo. :)
 

waylit1

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I gotta say this looks pretty awesome.

Prisoner swap would be awesome, though I'm sure it'll take a while to implement. Glad to see you have it on the todo. :)
The main problem with prisoner swap is making it complex enough that it is not "and then the prisoner swap happens and all prisoners go back to normal." Ideally there would be a back and forth process between players or between player/AI actually "negotiating" for the swaps. The way that I personally would write it, there would be AI/AI negotiations going on as well.
 
Last edited:

waylit1

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Ahaha I think I love this mod already. I just sacked Westminster and took the immediate Godwin clan as hostages. Took London, but the Mayor was off leading troops and had no family...

Sieged St Paul and noticed that our good Bishop FattyFats has hoofed it for the hills! Considering adding a Harry Flashman easter egg. ;)

ex10.jpg
 

mw2xboxplayer

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This mod adds a basic feature which should have been included in vanilla. The frustration of having an enemy king reign from an occupied capitol had vexed me to no end.

Kudos to you for solving this immersion-breaking game flaw. Bravo!
 

Herl

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Ahaha I think I love this mod already. I just sacked Westminster and took the immediate Godwin clan as hostages. Took London, but the Mayor was off leading troops and had no family...

Sieged St Paul and noticed that our good Bishop FattyFats has hoofed it for the hills! Considering adding a Harry Flashman easter egg. ;)

View attachment 60303
isn't that bishop leading troops tho? how can he lead troops and be hidden at the same times?
 

RedRooster81

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I like this idea a LOT. I haven't tried it, but it looks like you made a nice system for capturing rulers and their families. No, barons and their equivalents don't have families usually. I thought for a while that my mayors had councils, but that was a modding dead-end. ;)

I say your statement on integrating this into other work. I think that I will do so eventually for Matter of Britain, at a time when raids and kidnappings were rather more common than in later centuries. I think this would also work well with the raiding that apg is putting into ML.

Cheers,
Rooster
 

waylit1

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isn't that bishop leading troops tho? how can he lead troops and be hidden at the same times?
I realize this mod is correcting a "what exactly is this character doing" annoyance, so your concern is valid. And it is rather important from a realism standpoint to get the hidden character's martial out of the equation. I'll see what I can do...it's trickier than it seems.

"Oh, I'll just use flags," I thought when I first started this mod, but it doesn't work that easily because what happens when a siege is abandoned before its end? There's no siege end event to clear the flag, and then I have to do some maintenance or decision stuff...and both of those are worse IMO than leaving the guy as leader.

I'll explore working within my modifier system.

I say your statement on integrating this into other work. I think that I will do so eventually for Matter of Britain, at a time when raids and kidnappings were rather more common than in later centuries. I think this would also work well with the raiding that apg is putting into ML.

Cheers,
Rooster
I hope you do use this for MoB! The scopes are very easily expanded to allow anybody at the holding to be captured (Execute the men and round up all the women and children for slaves!). If you need any quick questions answered, just send me a PM.
 
Last edited:

waylit1

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Herl: I can't figure out how to fix this one gracefully.

If anybody could tell me how to remove somebody from being leader of a siege, first off, that would be a big help!

Tried:
leader = no
in_command = no
rem_defender = ROOT

No avail...
 

J0kk3

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intriguing, subscribed
 

RedRooster81

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I hope you do use this for MoB! The scopes are very easily expanded to allow anybody at the holding to be captured (Execute the men and round up all the women and children for slaves!). If you need any quick questions answered, just send me a PM.
Ok, will do. I've thought about raids, which would include making captives. Slaving was apparently big business, but just what they were being used for I couldn't say. Concubines, herding cattle, but maybe in mining and other drudge work. Once I get rolling on the economic side of the mod, I'll be in touch. :)
 

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Since TPTT uses a custom tptt_on_actions.txt - does using this with it require modification to that file?
 

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Would it be possible to restrict this to Leaders in a war and their allies? It'd be interesting to add into the A Game of Thrones mod, but I'm very concerned it'll lead to the deaths of many of the lords of particularly contentious areas in the game and so want to restrict it to people who are directly in conflict with each other, and let their vassals go.
 

waylit1

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Since TPTT uses a custom tptt_on_actions.txt - does using this with it require modification to that file?
Honestly that whole on_actions thing confuses me. So at first it was a file, and all mods had to add theirs to that file. Then paradox made it a folder, which I think allows files like tptt_on_actions to be read.

BUT I think that any action clauses in the TpTT_on_actions will directly override the entire clause in the 00_on_actions.txt and some events could get left out.

FOR INSTANCE: I added lines to on_siege_pulse = { random_events = { to the 00_on_actions file. If TpTT file has the clause on_siege_pulse = { then the game will read that clause instead of the original clause, and my changes to the original clause are left out. That make sense?

So basically what I would do is add the lines to the correct clauses in the TPTT_on_actions file, if those clauses exist. If they don't exist in that file, then add them to 00_on_actions.txt.

Would it be possible to restrict this to Leaders in a war and their allies? It'd be interesting to add into the A Game of Thrones mod, but I'm very concerned it'll lead to the deaths of many of the lords of particularly contentious areas in the game and so want to restrict it to people who are directly in conflict with each other, and let their vassals go.
Yup, should be possible. I made a post on your forum awhile ago as chinaserf1, saying that I had written this and then I never looked back at your forum again, lol. Y'all are free to use it and make any modifications.

Of the top of my head... The thing you need to know is that FROM in waylit_siege_events.txt (and for any on_siege_won_leader) is the holding that has just fallen. So FROM = { Holder_scope = { is the guy who owns the holding that has just fallen, ROOT is the guy who has just taken it.

Once you understand that it is fairly simple to constrain the limits of who can be captured in the IF clauses. I think "any_attacker" and "any_defender" scopes only scope to primary members of wars, which would scope ROOT and his allies.
 
Last edited:

RedRooster81

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Good to see focused but substantive mods being put out there. So far, plays well with my mod. The on_actions thing: I think that entire sections are overriden if you have the same on_action category as you said above. Load order on things like this are still a bit unclear to me, but I think that it is alphabetical within the folder, if that makes sense.
 

Deflare

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This mod is VERY cool. I, too, was mildly bothered by a king ruling from an occupied capital with no ill effects, and this helps the small, annoying problem where a young or female ruler can't be captured since they can't lead armies. It also makes for a great addition to the Game of Thrones mod, given the importance of captured family members to the novels' plot. I definitely look forward to seeing it get integrated into other mods--or just playing it on its own.