[Mod] Battletech Balance Overhaul

[don Zappo]

So, PPC's still have no right to exist? At least for the player?

How so? +5 damage and -10 heat is no joke. They also cause stability damage which is much more important since this mod gives increased evasion. And then there is the to-hit penalty they give out upon hitting as well. I find them useful in a number of my builds. So you think they still need tweaking?

 

[don Zappo]

I'm heading home from vacation today.

I look forward to hearing to your return to the land of modding.

 

[don Zappo]

Hopefully you're around to have some intense evasion talks. I was thinking that maybe we should have a permanent evasion floor for each weight class of mech and just make ace Pilot a bonus on top of it. Like, 3/2/1/0 permanent evasion for light/medium/heavy/assault with Ace pilot simply giving a +2 bonus to this.

 

[n3ctaris]

So, PPC's still have no right to exist? At least for the player?

I use PPCs quite often in with this balance mod. PPCs are the only energy slot weapon that has stability damage and they are the highest single location damage. They definitely have a place in the game with these balance changes.

 

[Yeach]

Flamers - how do you bring them back to TT style?
Heat Damage only but more heat to yourself.

Anyways thinking of making all weapons to TT standard but give the weaker weapons other stats boosts (stability, accuracy, heat damage, etc)

 

[don Zappo]

Flamers - how do you bring them back to TT style?
Heat Damage only but more heat to yourself.

Anyways thinking of making all weapons to TT standard but give the weaker weapons other stats boosts (stability, accuracy, heat damage, etc)

If you want this I suggest exploring Nexus Mods. There are a number of conversions to bring the weapons in-line with TT. Hopefully you'll find a weapons mod you're happy with!

 

[Yeach]

If you want this I suggest exploring Nexus Mods. There are a number of conversions to bring the weapons in-line with TT. Hopefully you'll find a weapons mod you're happy with!

Actually just only have a question specific to flamers.
I can't get them seem to work right now that they have ammo and I always have to copy back the original onto the weapon sheet or my mechlab freezes.
I don't think I can give them just 0 damage.

 

[don Zappo]

Really? Changing "Damage" : 5, to "Damage" : 0, doesn't actually make it do 0 damage?

 

[Yeach]

Really? Changing "Damage" : 5, to "Damage" : 0, doesn't actually make it do 0 damage?

Nevermind I figure it out.

I got the game frozen because the game was looking for flamer ammo weapon usage; I changed all the flamers so they didn't use any ammo and it bugged the game. Well at least what I think happened.

 

[me987654]

Hopefully you're around to have some intense evasion talks. I was thinking that maybe we should have a permanent evasion floor for each weight class of mech and just make ace Pilot a bonus on top of it. Like, 3/2/1/0 permanent evasion for light/medium/heavy/assault with Ace pilot simply giving a +2 bonus to this.

Yeah so..... I'm thinking the current values are too good. The first step is to revert to 3/3/3/3 or change to something like 4/4/3/3 or 3/3/2/2. I'm not sure blanket permanent evasion is a great idea, it's really not that much different from size based defensive bonuses and there's not cost to it. At least with ACE Pilot you are limited to only one other ability.

BTW, the JJ to hit malus is definitely intriguing... .JJs are really good with how we have evasion configured

 

[don Zappo]

Great to have you back! I actually really like the weight class dependent evasion bonuses right now. Our goal is to have lights and mediums be viable and that directly addresses that issue straight on. Right now evasion does seem too good and then we make Ace Pilot stupidly good on top of that! By making Ace Pilot only give a small bonus it makes it no longer OP.

Basically, we need a specific goal and then to come up with a balance around that. I have an evasion document in our Dropbox (I think you are a member of that, right?) which has all the mech movement ranges and evasion values in them. I was aiming for helping lights and mediums by making their accessible evasion limits much better than what heavies and assaults can reach. I also want them viable without having Ace Pilot be mandatory...

 

[n3ctaris]

Yeah so..... I'm thinking the current values are too good. The first step is to revert to 3/3/3/3 or change to something like 4/4/3/3 or 3/3/2/2. I'm not sure blanket permanent evasion is a great idea, it's really not that much different from size based defensive bonuses and there's not cost to it. At least with ACE Pilot you are limited to only one other ability.

BTW, the JJ to hit malus is definitely intriguing... .JJs are really good with how we have evasion configured

Glad you are back sir! You can check out my LosTech weapon changes in the dropbox. I made some changes and adjustments to your starting point with the UAC, LBX10, Streak 2 and Inferno 2's.

I think the LBX should be adjusted to do 7 damage x 10 'pellets' per shot at +50% crit each. But I couldn't figure out how to make ammo work with that... so having LBX ammo that's 10x the AC10 ammo so you can fire it 8 times (needing 80 rounds i think). I also reduced the heat on the LBX further, i was thinking we should reign in the range a hair.

The Streaks and Infernos both feel really good in their configurations.

The UAC5 is in a really good place too... If we leave it requiring the regular AC5 ammo, then you need to carry twice as much ammo to shoot as many times. Which I think is a great offset to the damage it produces. Trade a bit of weight, heat, ammo requirements to have the UAC5 shoot like a mid range AC between the 5 and the 10.

 

[me987654]

2.3 Uploaded.... Reverted the permanent evasion to a flat value for 3 for ACE Pilot

 

[me987654]

Glad you are back sir! You can check out my LosTech weapon changes in the dropbox. I made some changes and adjustments to your starting point with the UAC, LBX10, Streak 2 and Inferno 2's.

I think the LBX should be adjusted to do 7 damage x 10 'pellets' per shot at +50% crit each. But I couldn't figure out how to make ammo work with that... so having LBX ammo that's 10x the AC10 ammo so you can fire it 8 times (needing 80 rounds i think). I also reduced the heat on the LBX further, i was thinking we should reign in the range a hair.

The Streaks and Infernos both feel really good in their configurations.

The UAC5 is in a really good place too... If we leave it requiring the regular AC5 ammo, then you need to carry twice as much ammo to shoot as many times. Which I think is a great offset to the damage it produces. Trade a bit of weight, heat, ammo requirements to have the UAC5 shoot like a mid range AC between the 5 and the 10.

So I take it from this you actually got the stuff I coded up to work? Did you end up adding it to the store? I haven't actually tried it yet xD

 

[don Zappo]

So, what do you plan on doing with the balance numbers from 1.1b? Ignoring them? Using them for inspiration?

 

[me987654]

So, what do you plan on doing with the balance numbers from 1.1b? Ignoring them? Using them for inspiration?

Not sure yet....... will have to build a 1.1 spreadsheet once the changes are finalized.

I'm going on vacation (again) in like 10 days anyways..... so may not look at it much until later

 

[don Zappo]

Not sure yet....... will have to build a 1.1 spreadsheet once the changes are finalized.

I'm going on vacation (again) in like 10 days anyways..... so may not look at it much until later

I will continue to tweak all the things in your absence, then.

 

[me987654]

I will continue to tweak all the things in your absence, then.

Updated the spreadsheet for 1.1 (just noticed it went final)... some of their changes are intriguing (we could buff the LL a bit I suppose)...... but some are just silly and some are head scratching.

I mean I just realized the ERML and ERLL have the same heat now.... um really?

I think I like the ML heat increase to 12.... .not sure on the other changes. I like our missile values better (we could scale down LRM heat... but LRMs are IMO already quite good).

Maybe we could drop LL heat a bit?.... I dunno.... I use LLs quite a bit with our values of 45 dmg / 24 heat.

Really other than the ML change (and maybe some further lostech heat buffs) I'm not sure I'm a big fan of their changes... we could look at their AC heat values are those changes are pretty minor.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1czVp890OHFcFQJclxe6G3Esvo6qJnshfI8RHyD1a_R4/edit?usp=sharing

 

[don Zappo]

I do like lower heat for AC as that really helps to differentiate them in my mind. But I do like ACs so it could be my personal bias. Need to look at your new sheets to see how the math plays out. I agree with the heat nerf to MLas as they are still really strong.

LRMs are quite good. I definitely use them as crit seekers and a guaranteed way to finish off sections that are really weak. The rng will land some missiles on the open sections. This is very similar to TT as well. I could always stand for a LRM nerf to some degree on... something. Don't know what off the top of my head, though.

ERMLas and ERLLas having the same heat is just insane.

 

[n3ctaris]

Updated the spreadsheet for 1.1 (just noticed it went final)... some of their changes are intriguing (we could buff the LL a bit I suppose)...... but some are just silly and some are head scratching.

I mean I just realized the ERML and ERLL have the same heat now.... um really?

I think I like the ML heat increase to 12.... .not sure on the other changes. I like our missile values better (we could scale down LRM heat... but LRMs are IMO already quite good).

Maybe we could drop LL heat a bit?.... I dunno.... I use LLs quite a bit with our values of 45 dmg / 24 heat.

Really other than the ML change (and maybe some further lostech heat buffs) I'm not sure I'm a big fan of their changes... we could look at their AC heat values are those changes are pretty minor.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1czVp890OHFcFQJclxe6G3Esvo6qJnshfI8RHyD1a_R4/edit?usp=sharing

View attachment 381793

I do like lower heat for AC as that really helps to differentiate them in my mind. But I do like ACs so it could be my personal bias. Need to look at your new sheets to see how the math plays out. I agree with the heat nerf to MLas as they are still really strong.

LRMs are quite good. I definitely use them as crit seekers and a guaranteed way to finish off sections that are really weak. The rng will land some missiles on the open sections. This is very similar to TT as well. I could always stand for a LRM nerf to some degree on... something. Don't know what off the top of my head, though.

ERMLas and ERLLas having the same heat is just insane.

My vote is we adopt the ML nerf of 2 heat and leave the rest. I think our balance is in a really good spot. Plus their changes are a bunch of head-scratchers. LRM15, ERLL and Flamer ammo really stick out to me as WTF? If anything the flamer needs MORE ammo, not less!

I am a fan of the old AC heat but our implementation of extra stability damage.