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[Mod] Battletech Balance Overhaul

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me987654 said:
Very small change... I bumped up LRM 15 heat by 1 based on some feedback and some math :)
Click to expand...

Math is hard. Could we just go shopping instead?
 
Is the BehaviorVariables folder the entirety of the AI mod?
 
Well, this has been folded into my Mod Pack. It is now a significant cornerstone of the Mod. If this doesn't make you internet famous, what will? ;)
 
Mod Suggestions:

Things that I have modded when I included this in my Mod Pack:
  • Clustering of LRM to 4/3/2 - Blah, blah, blah. We've had this discussion already. ;)
  • Visibility - Increase Sensor distance and tie the spotter distance to Tactics.
    • "SpotterTacticsMultiplier": 20.0,
    • "BaseSensorDistance": 600.0
  • Hit Tables - I think it that called shots are too easy to take (from NGNG mod):
    • "HitTables":
      {
      "CalledShotBonusMultiplier": 1.5,
  • Allow the AI to be inspired.
  • Ammo buff - nice QoL change especially since it is harder to hit now:
    • -AC2 set at 30 (+5)
    • -AC5 set at 18 (+3)
    • -AC10 set at 10 (+2)
    • -AC20 set to 6 (+1)

Things I don't have, but have had before or have considered adding:

  • +1 hit penalty for walking. Your mod greatly rewards moving with evasion. Provide a little incentive to not move.
  • Maybe lower the contract difficulty variance. In Detroit, my contracts were a one-skull contract, and 3 2.5 skull contracts. That's pretty intimidating. ;)
  • Decrease the base to-hit chance to... 70?
  • Remove recoil from AC2s. Some bonus to them for being a small caliber AC?
 
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On the plus side, having the hard contracts makes Withdrawing a real option! So, maybe it's a good thing?
 
Mod Suggestions:

Things that I have modded when I included this in my Mod Pack:
  • Clustering of LRM to 4/3/2 - Blah, blah, blah. We've had this discussion already. ;)
Not opposed to this...although I'd like to know why you think these settings are better? I mean basically you have a slightly higher chance for an adjacent location AND for a non-adjacent location. I suppose it would reduce single area damage a bit?
  • Visibility - Increase Sensor distance and tie the spotter distance to Tactics.
    • "SpotterTacticsMultiplier": 20.0,
    • "BaseSensorDistance": 600.0
I'm probably not going to do this one (at least not right now). I'm not a huge fan of differing spotter ranges.... but I'll think about it.
  • Hit Tables - I think it that called shots are too easy to take (from NGNG mod):
    • "HitTables":
      {
      "CalledShotBonusMultiplier": 1.5,
Definition considering this - I actually almost put something like this in during my last changes. Do you know if the math is explained anywhere (how the multiplier works?)? I'd kind of like to make the change intelligently instead of just guessing.
  • Allow the AI to be inspired.
How would I do this? Sounds very interesting
  • Ammo buff - nice QoL change especially since it is harder to hit now:
    • -AC2 set at 30 (+5)
    • -AC5 set at 18 (+3)
    • -AC10 set at 10 (+2)
    • -AC20 set to 6 (+1)
I'm hestitant to do this as the AC/10 is balanced around required 2 tons of ammo... if we up it to 10 shots I'll likely have to rebalance the damage lower. Honestly I almost never run out of ammo - although the AC/20 change actually would be nice (and maybe the AC/2). If I do it I'd probably just alter those 2 since it wouldn't impact balance.

Things I don't have, but have had before or have considered adding:

  • +1 hit penalty for walking. Your mod greatly rewards moving with evasion. Provide a little incentive to not move.
Not a bad idea - I'm considering looking at the to hit penalty for firing after jumping (which is probably more important).... I'll definitely consider this.



Thanks for the feedback - it's super helpful
 
me987654 said:
Mod Suggestions:

Things that I have modded when I included this in my Mod Pack:
  • Clustering of LRM to 4/3/2 - Blah, blah, blah. We've had this discussion already. ;)
Not opposed to this...although I'd like to know why you think these settings are better? I mean basically you have a slightly higher chance for an adjacent location AND for a non-adjacent location. I suppose it would reduce single area damage a bit?
Click to expand...
My initial goal was to reduce the efficacy of missiles being used for called shots. Therefore, I did want them to scatter away from the main location. The modder I got this idea from completely removed any preference, but I do kinda like the missiles being able to bunch around the location they hit.

me987654 said:
  • Hit Tables - I think it that called shots are too easy to take (from NGNG mod):
    • "HitTables":
      {
      "CalledShotBonusMultiplier": 1.5,
Definition considering this - I actually almost put something like this in during my last changes. Do you know if the math is explained anywhere (how the multiplier works?)? I'd kind of like to make the change intelligently instead of just guessing.
Click to expand...
I got this idea from No Guts No Galaxy. This is what he baked in:
- Called shot bonus from 2x to 1.5x
- Called Shot Bonus from 2.4x to 1.8x
- Called Shot Master from 3.75 to 2.2x

I haven't looked into the math at all myself. It might be located in the thread somewhere, but I don't know.

me987654 said:
  • Allow the AI to be inspired.
How would I do this? Sounds very interesting
Click to expand...
This one is quite easy. Just toggle this to true in CombatGameConstants:
"CanAIBeInspired": false

me987654 said:
  • Ammo buff - nice QoL change especially since it is harder to hit now:
    • -AC2 set at 30 (+5)
    • -AC5 set at 18 (+3)
    • -AC10 set at 10 (+2)
    • -AC20 set to 6 (+1)
I'm hestitant to do this as the AC/10 is balanced around required 2 tons of ammo... if we up it to 10 shots I'll likely have to rebalance the damage lower. Honestly I almost never run out of ammo - although the AC/20 change actually would be nice (and maybe the AC/2). If I do it I'd probably just alter those 2 since it wouldn't impact balance.
Click to expand...
Very good points! The AC2 and the AC20s are the ones that need the most love.

me987654 said:
Things I don't have, but have had before or have considered adding:
Click to expand...
me987654 said:
  • +1 hit penalty for walking. Your mod greatly rewards moving with evasion. Provide a little incentive to not move.
Not a bad idea - I'm considering looking at the to hit penalty for firing after jumping (which is probably more important).... I'll definitely consider this.
Click to expand...
Fantastic idea... if you can figure out how to do it! ;) I had the same idea when I saw NGNG modify the to-hit for walking. In the CombatGameConstants you can tweak the to-hit for sprinting, you can tweak the to-hit for all individual mech sizes and vehicles, and you CAN'T tweak to-hit for jumping. This just blew my mind.
 
@don Zappo

Yeah, I just checked and there doesn't appear to be a separate modifier for Jumping and I'm wondering if the walk modifier applies to jumping, if not we shouldn't use that because making jumping even stronger compared to walking is the last thing we want to do.

I did notice you can add a status effect o jumpjets:

{
"JumpCapacity" : 1,
"MinTonnage" : 10,
"MaxTonnage" : 55,
"Description" : {
"Cost" : 30000,
"Rarity" : 0,
"Purchasable" : true,
"Manufacturer" : "Generic",
"Model" : "Standard",
"UIName" : "Jump Jet (S)",
"Id" : "Gear_JumpJet_Generic_Standard",
"Name" : "Standard Jump Jet (S)",
"Details" : "Jump Jets funnel superheated air to propel 'Mechs over obstacles in a controlled manner. Additionally, they may also be used to perform the dreaded 'Death from Above' attack. Standard Jump Jets are specially designed for use on 'Mechs up to 55 tons.",
"Icon" : "uixSvgIcon_action_jump"
},
"BonusValueA" : null,
"BonusValueB" : null,
"ComponentType" : "JumpJet",
"ComponentSubType" : "Functionality",
"PrefabIdentifier" : "JumpJet",
"BattleValue" : 0,
"InventorySize" : 1,
"Tonnage" : 0.5,
"AllowedLocations" : "Torso, Legs",
"DisallowedLocations" : "Head, Arms",
"CriticalComponent" : false,
"statusEffects" : null,
"ComponentTags" : {
"items" : [
"component_type_stock"
],
"tagSetSourceFile" : ""
}
}


What if we added the PPC debuff to them?... but changed it a bit?

"statusEffects" : [
{
"durationData" : {
"duration" : 1,
"ticksOnActivations" : true,
"useActivationsOfTarget" : true,
"ticksOnEndOfRound" : false,
"ticksOnMovements" : false,
"stackLimit" : 1,
"clearedWhenAttacked" : false
},
"targetingData" : {
"effectTriggerType" : "OnHit",
"triggerLimit" : 0,
"extendDurationOnTrigger" : 0,
"specialRules" : "NotSet",
"effectTargetType" : "NotSet",
"range" : 0,
"forcePathRebuild" : false,
"forceVisRebuild" : false,
"showInTargetPreview" : false,
"showInStatusPanel" : true
},
"effectType" : "StatisticEffect",
"Description" : {
"Id" : "AbilityDefPPC",
"Name" : "SENSORS IMPAIRED",
"Details" : "[AMT] Difficulty to all of this unit's attacks until its next activation.",
"Icon" : "uixSvgIcon_status_sensorsImpaired"
},
"nature" : "Debuff",
"statisticData" : {
"appliesEachTick" : false,
"effectsPersistAfterDestruction" : false,
"statName" : "AccuracyModifier",
"operation" : "Float_Add",
"modValue" : "1.0",
"modType" : "System.Single",
"additionalRules" : "NotSet",
"targetCollection" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponCategory" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponType" : "NotSet",
"targetAmmoCategory" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponSubType" : "NotSet"
},
"tagData" : null,
"floatieData" : null,
"actorBurningData" : null,
"vfxData" : null,
"instantModData" : null,
"poorlyMaintainedEffectData" : null
}
],


Except that we replace the targeting data section with this:


"targetingData" :
{
"effectTriggerType" : "OnActivation",
"effectTargetType" : "Creator"
},


(that's from one of the abilities)


I wonder if that would apply the -1 PPC debuff to any mech that uses jumpjets?
 
Now that is a very interesting idea. I like it a lot. It seems like you could use that to trigger a number of things attached to JJs. If your initial tests works then that opens up the door to some fine tuning...
 
These to-hit values are causing some wild swings in shooting at mechs! I also have the Real To Hit mod thing installed, so maybe I'm just seeing what reality looks like for the first time in my life. I do notice that the to-hit nerfs cause the AI to take single shots a lot more frequently than it used to. That makes sense, since this in the AI mod:

Float_EvasiveToHitFloor

Evasive "to hit" floor - if the to-hit is below this percentage (0.0 - 100.0), only shoot a single "conservative" shot.

"floatVal" : 45.0 (default was 40.0).

I'm wondering if it is worth changing that value. As long as heat isn't an issue, I'd think they should be able to take more pot shots? I dunno. You've played with these changes longer than I have. Any thoughts on this?
 
I'm still tweaking with these to-hit values and the AI mod to see what "feels" right. I'll go back to your 0.75 to-hit as you say you have vetted it well and give some feedback on this with your new evasion tweaks. I was finding the indirect fire penalty to be too painful, so I actually reset it to the vanilla value of 3. If you do such a thing, I might suggest the +1/+2 for the ++ weapons as you were considering before.

Oh, I took the time to reset the AI to the values listed in the main forum thread after reading the thread at HBS. One change that I made was the Float_EvasiveToHitFloor to 35.0. I'm trying to offset the global reduced to-hit values and seeing how the AI reacts to such a change.
 
don Zappo said:
I'm still tweaking with these to-hit values and the AI mod to see what "feels" right. I'll go back to your 0.75 to-hit as you say you have vetted it well and give some feedback on this with your new evasion tweaks. I was finding the indirect fire penalty to be too painful, so I actually reset it to the vanilla value of 3. If you do such a thing, I might suggest the +1/+2 for the ++ weapons as you were considering before.

Oh, I took the time to reset the AI to the values listed in the main forum thread after reading the thread at HBS. One change that I made was the Float_EvasiveToHitFloor to 35.0. I'm trying to offset the global reduced to-hit values and seeing how the AI reacts to such a change.
Click to expand...

Where are you at in the game that indirect fire feels painful? Once you level your pilots some that pain goes away for the most part (IMO). Keep in mind that indirect fire can actually be very effective even at 35%, 40%, 45%, etc to hit values early in the game. Those lights and partially armored mechs can't take much damage.

Note that I may somewhat un-nerf gunnery skill progression to go from a max of 16% to a max of 20%, which would indirectly help indirect fire (haha)

Edit- testing this now

I'm not a fan of leaving it at 3 because by the time you have fully leveled pilots it means indirect fire will be just as accurate as direct fire. If you really find it too painful I'd try 4 before completely un-nerfing

Edit - also wondering if your additional clustering nerfs are making an impact here

Also - your last change log doesn't mention a reversion of the 70% floor to 75%... so make sure you did that.


Let me know how the AI change works out - I've noticed as well that the AI fires only one weapon to strip evasion quite a bit as well (although its still managed to give me much more difficult battles :)). I definitely may put that one in

Edit - testing the AI change myself right now... heck I might change it to 30. No reason the AI needs to conserve ammo and those lucky shots will make the game more difficult.

BTW - I verified that adding tohit penalties to walking does impact jumping as well. I may still look into adding an extra +1 for jumping... but honestly I don't want to make it too hard to hit stuff (in fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to leave the gunnery skill progression at 20% max instead of 16%)

I may tick up spotter/sensor range again too.
 
Last edited:
Updated to version 1.3


Changelog for version 1.3:

Slightly un-nerfed gunnery skill progression (max is no +20% instead of +16%)

Added +1 to hit penalty for movement (includes jumping)

Changed spotter/sensor range to 400/500

AI can now be inspired

AI is now more likely to fire multiple weapons with lower hit chances
 
Did you take the AI stuff out of my modpack, or did you leave your own? I'm just trying to consolidate the AI changes instead of running two versions.
 
Ah, I just did a file compare and see that you may have grabbed my file but updated it with your numbers... Do you have any interest in returning to the numbers from beta? That is my preference since it seems pretty well tested. I don't want to test multiple AI, though, so I'll go with your opinion on this one.
 
By the way, I'll give you a dollar if you trim out all the stuff you haven't changed in your .json files. ;)
 
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