Is there anything happening at all with this game?

[Andrei the Tzimisce]

Lol, looks like they can't make dev diary because lots of devs fired. And they need to find new ones.

Sorry

Anyways: looks like this game is really getting through iterations of people been fired and development hell. I feel sorry for devs.

Well fun fact Hardsuit Labs was created from the ashes of the Zombie Studios.
I wonder how many devs Hardsuit Labs currently have? I know that they hiring but this lost of brainpower is terrible for this game.
Maybe not Bloodlines 2 itself but for the DLCs and the expansion oh well.

 

[Feeona]

I believe its more:
Mitsoda to the new guy in control Alexandre Mandryka : "What you are responsible that my close friend Cluney was fired?"
Mandryka: "Ok i don´t care who you are but you also are fired!"
Paradox Producers Christian Schlüter and Florian Schwarzer: You can´t fire Mitsoda he was and is the soul of Bloodlines 1 & 2!
Mandryka: "You two are also fired!"
Paradox: "Well they can´t that easy be fired!"
Mandryka: "Then remove them from the production. I don´t care."
Paradox: "Ok then"
Ellison: What is happening?!? I don´t think that is a good idea to do this.
Mandryka: "You are fired too"

Please stop with this, it's just weird fiction at this point putting words in people's mouths. Also just 100% not true.

 

[somewherebeyond]

Looks like these glassdoors reviews are valid. They are losing people all the time, have no clue how to make rpg. Hope change of direction will help them making game and it will be released in state better than bl1 had. Wesp5 still making patches for it.

 

[Andrei the Tzimisce]

Please stop with this, it's just weird fiction at this point putting words in people's mouths. Also just 100% not true.

Well i stop here with this theory but i still believe that Mandryka was one if not the main reason that those 5 are not longer working on this project.
Of course you can´t tell the truth what had really happened but you can´t tell me that Mandryka hasn´t nothing to do with that.

 

[Jia Xu]

Nice subtle goal-shifting - but sure you're not bound to comit crime for your employer... :duh:
Nor did most here claim that there was an active action, especially not me. It's much easier to not mention the negatives and repeatetly overstate positives than actual lying. And much less did anyone claim that Outstar was doing something criminal.

Mixing up some cancellation idea, with her statement isn't imo helping your overall case and i'm not interested in the discussion of very unlikely cancellation.
But again the biggest point people made was that having played something for 35 hrs from beginning to end, isn't indicative of what's actually finished. So let me point towards Squadron 42 and how CIG was able to play from start to finish 4 years ago... a statement that might have been false, or true - but as we've seen with both games, not indicative on what's actually finished or how near to completion we are.

No you were talking about her not loosing her "moral" or "ethics" or however you want to call it, by being suddenly employed. And while i agree on that, the employement in an official marketing position is actually putting a halt on her voicing her thoughts. And leads to her having to take the interests of her employer into account - even in her personal social media account.
Calling the the whole discussion about her not being a 100% neutral source of facts a ridiculous conspiracy is rather hilarious and is actively hurting your whole argument. As there's nothing ridculuos about employees, speficially ones hired as representatives, trying to maintain an even overly positive image of the company in the public. Sure... meet them at a private party and have a beer with them and they'll loosen up much more... but that's not the case with her videos.

So let's state it like it likely is - she played the game 35 hours (including reloads, bug ridden half finished levels), from start to finish (not indicative of those starts and finish will be the same for the acutal game, or describing what was inbetween) and voiced that she felt (unprovable in court and therefore legally never a lie or crime) it was already good. And given that she's got a development background, her expectations of what is considered good in a beta/alpha stage is quite different from what we consider good. Nearly a year later it isn't finished though - showing that Corporate Management didn't think it was either finished or good enough yet.
And if you think it's ridiculously critically to analyze PR statements that strongly, we could embark on a journey about plausible deniability and so on...
I mean sure enough a core tenet of long time marketing and PR is basically saying "don't lie", but that's implicitly followed by a ("too much, when you want a long term relation" ).

People are still interested in the game. And they're pretty much interested in discussing the current state of affairs. You on the other hand are seemingly not interested in anything else than corporate PR material, which makes me wonder why you partake in the whole community dicussion section of the Paradox Homepage.
Honestly your whole derisive language towards people voicing their concerns, dreads and wishes for the game is imo staggering and toxic.

Listen, I feel kind of bad about typing this because you clearly put a lot of energy into typing up this novella on an internet message board. I don't mean to sound rude or anything but this entire topic is a conversation. You and I are not having a private conversation in an isolated bubble. It is absolutely important to read the entirety of the topic from start to finish. All of the way back on page 1, we can see outrageous claims being posted, including the idea that Paradox and Outstar have teamed up to commit some kind of fraud. I've made it very clear that this is what I've been trying to highlight in multiple posts. There's no moving of the goal posts. Context matters.

Yes, I did point out that there is absolutely no reason or evidence to suggest that Outstar is some kind of malevolent person with no moral or ethics who has nothing better to do with her time than attempt to intentional deceive us over whether or not she played the game. That ties back into the original issue, the fraud claim. Do you see now? See how it's all tied together?

I have no interest in "plausible deniability" or anything like that because we both know you're not going to make an evidence based argument. At best, it's going to be another silly conspiracy theory. Again, not trying to sound rude. I understand that you'll probably take it that way, but that's not my intent. I'm just being a little blunt.

 

[Feeona]

Well i stop here with this theory but i still believe that Mandryka was one if not the main reason that those 5 are not longer working on this project.
Of course you can´t tell the truth what had really happened but you can´t tell me that Mandryka hasn´t nothing to do with that.

I think you are getting your timelines mixed up a little. I believe Alex came on board after everything that happened, he wasn't in any position to make hiring or firings. That was up to the folks at HSL and PDX at that time.

 

[Andrei the Tzimisce]

I think you are getting your timelines mixed up a little. I believe Alex came on board after everything that happened, he wasn't in any position to make hiring or firings. That was up to the folks at HSL and PDX at that time.

Maybe that´s true and he is the wrong guy to blame for this sorry PR mess.
If its not Mandryka well its kinda obvious that this person has to be the Hardsuit Labs CEO Andy Kipling.
If Mandryka has no real power in staff matters than Kipling must be in the position to make hiring and firings. Of course only at Hardsuit Labs
which isn´t fully owned by Paradox. I believe Paradox still have a 33% minority stake in Hardsuit Labs?

 

[Jia Xu]

Maybe that´s true and he is the wrong guy to blame for this sorry PR mess.
If its not Mandryka well its kinda obvious that this person has to be the Hardsuit Labs CEO Andy Kipling.
If Mandryka has no real power in staff matters than Kipling must be in the position to make hiring and firings. Of course only at Hardsuit Labs
which isn´t fully owned by Paradox. I believe Paradox still have a 33% minority stake in Hardsuit Labs?

Why are you doing this? Why are you literally inventing stories and then posting them at a member of the team as if they're obligated to entertain your fiction? If you weren't there, then you don't know what happened. Please stop posting like you have any idea as to what actually happened.

The truth is that people get fired from corporations every day. Right now, as we're speaking, someone, somewhere, is probably getting fired from a corporation. It's not nice when someone loses their job but it happens. It happens for all kinds of really common reasons. We don't know why this happened and there's absolutely nothing productive about making something up because you don't know what actually happened. Unfortunately, real life office politics are rarely soap opera levels of interesting.

 

[Andrei the Tzimisce]

Why are you doing this?

Because we as costumers of this game want to know what happen to the promised storylines for this game and its future content.
Hardsuit Labs / Paradox makes as care about Mitsoda & Ellison because they are used heavly in marketing.
So you can argue that its their own fault that the fans are asking what happen to those people?

Why are you literally inventing stories and then posting them at a member of the team as if they're obligated to entertain your fiction? If you weren't there, then you don't know what happened. Please stop posting like you have any idea as to what actually happened.

We know that Cluney and Mitsoda were fired. And Ellison is very likely also fired.

The truth is that people get fired from corporations every day. Right now, as we're speaking, someone, somewhere, is probably getting fired from a corporation. It's not nice when someone loses their job but it happens. It happens for all kinds of really common reasons. We don't know why this happened and there's absolutely nothing productive about making something up because you don't know what actually happened. Unfortunately, real life office politics are rarely soap opera levels of interesting.

You don´t get why people care about Mitsoda and Ellison do you?
Of course they aren´t Kojima but Hardsuit Lab / Paradox made both of them as their public faces of this product.
They advertise that those two (lets better ignore Avellones short involvment) made Bloodlines 2 great plus point. The Story and its character.
You have no idea how the Bloodlines 1 community is thinking!
Most people don´t care that Cluney was fired or that Schwarzer & Schlütter were removed from the project but Mitsoda and now Ellison?
This is terrible news because the fans care about the Bloodlines 2 story and its characters.

But i get it for you everything is totally normal and this project has no problems.

 

[Feeona]

Cara left, she was not fired.

 

[Jia Xu]

Because we as costumers of this game want to know what happen to the promised storylines for this game and its future content.
Hardsuit Labs / Paradox makes as care about Mitsoda & Ellison because they are used heavly in marketing.
So you can argue that its their own fault that the fans are asking what happen to those people?


We know that Cluney and Mitsoda were fired. And Ellison is very likely also fired.


You don´t get why people care about Mitsoda and Ellison do you?
Of course they aren´t Kojima but Hardsuit Lab / Paradox made both of them as their public faces of this product.
They advertise that those two (lets better ignore Avellones short involvment) made Bloodlines 2 great plus point. The Story and its character.
You have no idea how the Bloodlines 1 community is thinking!
Most people don´t care that Cluney was fired or that Schwarzer & Schlütter were removed from the project but Mitsoda and now Ellison?
This is terrible news because the fans care about the Bloodlines 2 story and its characters.

But i get it for you everything is totally normal and this project has no problems.

When you say "we", you're referring to like 3 people on an internet message board, right? Listen, internal HR decisions and stuff like that are not going to be discussed in detail on an internet message board, no matter how many fictitious stories are made up about it. You don't seem to appreciate that there are privacy issues. Why someone lost their job is private information that could impact that individual's ability to get employed somewhere else. Having their dirty laundry exposed for the entire world to laugh at could also cause these people a great deal of anxiety. You think these common practices exist just to spite you but you couldn't be more wrong. Human Resources is a well-developed field and all common HR policies have been tested a countless number of times in a countless number of places. Respect the privacy of everyone involved.

You claim Ellison got fired and then you were immediately corrected by a member of the team. How many times are you going to be objectively wrong before you're willing to consider that the way you've been going about things is incorrect?

You are correct to point out that I don't quite understand this very personal attachment to Brian Mitsoda. Yeah, he is very important to the history of the Bloodlines games but he is not your dad, right? You're fighting for him like he's your dad, so I thought it might be good to ask, just in case.

I would like to come to this message board to talk about Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2. Instead, every time I come here, it's the same few misinformed individuals attempting to destroy anything resembling on-topic conversation with conspiracy theories and straight up fictitious accounts of office politics.

 

[Jia Xu]

Yeah the whole Bloodlines 1 community is just 3 people but hey believe what you will.


No you listen my friend we are not speaking about some unknown dude or girl who works in the shadows.
Of course people are interested why the biggest stars if you will of this project who were used heavly for marketing are no longer on board.



Maybe this is correct but maybe false. Do you honestly believe that we get to hear the truth what has happened. No sir.
But lets say i believe more the people who were let go and than people who just do damage control.


So i assume you were never a big fan of Bloodlines 1?
Well maybe that is your (or mine which i doubt) problem


Yeah the name is Bloodlines 2 and that is a "sequel" of a cult classic.
Maybe you should your homework and learn more about the Bloodlines 1 community and why some are so mad about this current stuff.
But i get you. You won´t hear any bad news right?

You're not the Bloodlines community. You don't speak for all of us. Please stop trying.

This topic was about information on the game. As always, you have completely invaded and derailed it with the purposeful intent of taking it off topic to complain about Paradox Interactive's internal human resource decisions. Why? You haven't gotten the publisher to give you what you want. You haven't accomplished your ill-fated task. You don't have a single Paradox game registered to your account. I can't remember the last time you came here to post about anything other than Saint Brian. You literally do not talk about the game, itself. Just internal Paradox HR decisions. Why are you still here, bro?

 

[Phibs]

@Andrei the Tzimisce You've laid out your views, but maybe let it rest now.
It doesn't look like anybody's getting anything out of this any more and it's hardly worth getting bonked with the mod-hammer for.

@Jia Xu You're just perpetuating it at this point and it doesn't look like you're enjoying the experience.

 

[Demon Investor]

@Jia Xu
No offence taken, so no problem.
As i tried to answer your post shortly, but realized it would only keep the seemingly off-topic discussion and toxic thing going, i refrain from further arguing the point with you. Please don't take offense with that, none meant. I definately respect the time and effort you took with your last post in reply to mine.

@Feeona
Again sorry for causing you work. Hope you'll and the team we'll soon be ready to share good news with everyone.
And to make it clear, also thumbs up for Outstar, she has done quite some good and overall informative videos.

 

[Andrei the Tzimisce]

You're not the Bloodlines community. You don't speak for all of us. Please stop trying.

Well look around. See unofficial forums like the Bloodlines 1 patch forum Planet Vampire or Bloodlines reddit. Resetera or RPG Codex.

This topic was about information on the game. As always, you have completely invaded and derailed it with the purposeful intent of taking it off topic to complain about Paradox Interactive's internal human resource decisions.

I believe that the Bloodlines 2 community have the right to know that the game has lost Cara Ellison as senior narrative designer.

Why? You haven't gotten the publisher to give you what you want. You haven't accomplished your ill-fated task. You don't have a single Paradox game registered to your account. I can't remember the last time you came here to post about anything other than Saint Brian. You literally do not talk about the game, itself. Just internal Paradox HR decisions. Why are you still here, bro?

Spoilerwarning like some other people i don´t care about Paradox other games. I care about the World of Darkness and of course Bloodlines 2.
Before Bloodlines 2 announcement i have no reason to join this but i am longtime fan also for several years a member of Wesp patch testers.

Also why should i talk about for example i know returning characters (which i love to speculate by any game) if the man who have wrote them was fired?
And after the firing of Mitsoda & Cluney were no official news and therefore nothing new to discuss.

So yeah i would to love to discuss something cool like i don´t know some new music tracks from Rik Schaffer only if her and his wife Margaret Tang are
still on board of course. But i assume you don´t know & care who those people are or do you?

 

[Feeona]

Well look around. See unofficial forums like the Bloodlines 1 patch forum Planet Vampire or Bloodlines reddit. Resetera or RPG Codex.


I believe that the Bloodlines 2 community have the right to know that the game has lost Cara Ellison as senior narrative designer.


Spoilerwarning like some other people i don´t care about Paradox other games. I care about the World of Darkness and of course Bloodlines 2.
Before Bloodlines 2 announcement i have no reason to join this but i am longtime fan also for several years a member of Wesp patch testers.

Also why should i talk about for example i know returning characters (which i love to speculate by any game) if the man who have wrote them was fired?
And after the firing of Mitsoda & Cluney were no official news and therefore nothing new to discuss.

So yeah i would to love to discuss something cool like i don´t know some new music tracks from Rik Schaffer only if her and his wife Margaret Tang are
still on board of course. But i assume you don´t know & care who those people are or do you?

Seriously mate, please stop.

 

[Pete0714]

Sooo, I'll turn back to my concern about a lack of news about the actual game content.....
Frankly, I don't mind if they need more time, especially if they are retooling some things. I would love to at least see some little snippets here and there, a pic of a short vid, just to give us confirmation that things are moving in a forward direction, not backward. I hope that will happen. Soon.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

For myself even text talking about progress is fine in this case. :-/

 

[Eber]

Sooo, I'll turn back to my concern about a lack of news about the actual game content.....
Frankly, I don't mind if they need more time, especially if they are retooling some things. I would love to at least see some little snippets here and there, a pic of a short vid, just to give us confirmation that things are moving in a forward direction, not backward. I hope that will happen. Soon.

That's what I hope we will receive in the next dev diary. I think having Feeona here should at least be a small bit of reassurance that things are at least progressing forward, even if there was a major hiccup (delay and restructure) in development.

 

[Phibs]

Idk. For me, nothing but gameplay is really gonna do the trick. Don't get me wrong I'd love a meaty dd (character creation for instance).
But gameplay is the only way to assess the state of the game, imo. And it's been over a year.