How far off-rails do the 769 Karlings usually go?

[Sunshine Moon]

Just wondering, how far off the rails do the 769 Karlings usually get? This is the first time I've done a sustained game from the start date (doing the Fylkir thing), and so far:

-I think Karloman died and Charlie got booted by a tyranny revolt almost instantly and simultaneously (before I even noticed), unlanding him completely and replacing them with their sister Gisela in West Francia (I set gender equality full as I do about 50% of the time) and some kid in Middle

-Charlie then proceeded to find someone to press a claim I guess he had on Bavaria and go from unlanded to King again, somehow, and then married the Byzantine Empress, which is frankly a staggering comeback

(that is indeed the history for Middle Francia, it's just a screenshot I took in shock when I noticed what he was listed as king of)

-He then kicked the Lombards out of Italy and turned it into Bavaria!

-Meanwhile Gisela is just kind of doing all the Charlemagne things while he runs around off the rails. She burned the Irminsul, swallowed Saxony, formed East Francia--and gave me a real jump when I saw Francia change from blue to grey and thought for a terrified moment she'd formed the HRE. In fact she'd just made East Francia her primary title, but she can't be far from being able to form the HRE in the near future.

Though there was a great bit where a Germanic Saxon revolt tried to resist her rule, and then got a good old Revolt Revolt from the Catholics under them...

In any case, I just wanted to lay out the sequence of events as a reference point. I don't have much experience with how things usually go in this start date. Is there usually this much variance? (Feel free to relate any particularly fun versions you've seen happen)

 

[Rackenhammer]

The last extended 769 campaign I ran didn't go too far off the rails, save for Charlie using the "Religious Liberation" CB on the Ummayads, turning about 2/3 of Iberia into a permanent tributary of the HRE, with the remaining 1/3 liberated by adventuring Reconquistas.

All before 900.


I think I'm gonna be switching up some of the game rules next time; that's frankly ridiculous...

 

[Lingvort]

Half the time Charlie fails to conquer anything.

Even more so, he keeps folding to the faction demands to install the last Merowingian on the throne, which, while a cool alternate history scenario, annoys the living hell out of me, especially if the Merowingians remain in power for generations afterwards.

 

[DPS]

Karloman usually dies more-or-less on schedule, but it's very frequent that Charlemagne dies soon after without accomplishing anything or having time for the story events to fire; if Charlie dies early, there's no telling what might happen. Even if he lives, lots of times he doesn't accomplish much--he has a lot of vassal that don't much like him, so sometimes he gets deposed or the realm fractures before he can form the HRE. And I've seen him lose the war when he tries to conquer Saxony. OTOH, I have seem him form the HRE with pretty much its historical borders. Even then, sometimes he doesn't produce any legitimate heirs and you get weird successions.

 

[StarSword]

I somehow manage to screw the Karlings, deliberately or not, in nearly every game I play.

The first game I played, as Aed Mac Gabrain, Petty King of Dal Riata in 769, I married Charlie's mother for her Intrigue score to make her my spymaster on day one (because you start with a 50-something year old character who already has an adult son and younger half-brother anyway). I don't know if that was related, but the Karlings were extinct by about the time Crusades unlocked.

In my Haraldr Wartooth -> Reformed Germanic German Empire of Germania game, I did this:

Spoiler: Blotting out Charlie

I was trying to reform the Germanic faith, obviously, but Charlie invaded and conquered Saxony, and burning Irminsul put a 10% MA crimp in my plans. So I waited around for Widukind's rebellion, and then sent a raiding party into Saxony so I'd be hostile to Charlie and be able to help Widukind by following his stack around (Widukind being landless, I could be hostile to Charlie but neutral to him). And I inadvertently captured him, and sacrificed him during the next blot.

Things went to hell in Europe, like they do.

Spoiler: Francia was raggedly split between two preteen boys.

150 years later, this happened.

Spoiler: Germanic Karling Queen of Burgundy

I was raiding and managed to carry off a Karling princess. She adopted die deutsche Religion but not die deutsche Kultur, and I eventually ransomed her. Then, somehow, she was elected Queen of Burgundy, while still pagan.

So I matrimarried her to one of my sons.

Spoiler: She went on do do crazy stuff in her own right.

Like inheriting Northumbria, since her mother, it turned out, was the duchess regnant.

And becoming known as "the Sword of the Thunderer".

She died at age 45, however, and a Catholic kid from her second marriage was elected. But that was no obstacle to me, I used a favor to bring one of her sons to my court!

Spoiler: And so the last independent Karling ruler in Europe was enthroned by a Great Holy War.

Things are only slightly less off-the-rails in my current game as Novgorod.

• King Karl "Peg Leg" presses his claim for Saxony against... a Slavic Pomeranian, while in the oubliette of the Comte de Perche.
• And one of his descendants managed to inherit Italy for a brief time.

 

[Sunshine Moon]

Thanks for the examples! That really puts it in perspective. I know some don't like that certain things can happen so divergently so quickly, but I'm personally a fan of things having both a chance to go vaguely historically and to go in completely unheard-of directions.

Sacrificing him at the Blot especially must feel like an achievement...

 

[WomboCombo]

In my games, Karl usually does this (in varying orders):

• Vassalize Brittany
• Kill Karloman for Middle Francia
• Lose to the Saxons
• Suffers many revolts
• Die in a battle

 

[MentziaIII]

I somehow manage to screw the Karlings, deliberately or not, in nearly every game I play.

I get the feeling that in my current game I screwed the Karlings , unwittingly.

I started off as the House of Leon in the Breton county of Leon , and eventually became the Empire of Brittany. It is currently AD 900 , and I guess some Karling's are holed up somewhere in this Duchy , or county , or other ? I will have to check . Maybe now I need to try and save the Karlings from extinction ?

What happened was that I heard about the last Merovingian reading this forum , and so I kept an eye on him . He had a falling out with his liege , the Count of Eu , and so I was able to invite him to my court after gifting him.

He was the first outsider / non - Briton I ever invited to my court. Following the advice on this forum , I de - monk'ed him by landing him in a town in Nantes , and marrying him to a young girl with the lustful trait. By that time he was 40 years old and his numbers didn't look so good. So I wasn't optimistic about the Merovingian's chances. Surprisingly , though , he managed to educate himself into a + 20 intrigue , and I made him my spymaster . And on the breeding front , he and his wife got busy and soon the last Merovingian had become six Merovingian's . It was so much the better that Barony - level characters don't play the marriage game , because it allowed me to select wives for his three sons , and husbands to be married matrilinially to his four daughters.

Meanwhile , the original Charlemagne ( ? ) kept getting hammered by multiple , repeated , internal revolts. He managed to beat off all the revolts successfully , and kept his empire intact. I was rather proud of him , even though I worried that if my Brittany wasn't over -run by the Vikings , it would be over - run by the Karling's.

The incessant revolts , however , seemed to run him down. He first became stressed , them got wounded , then got maimed , and then he died.

He was followed by a 10 or 15 year old Peppin . Likewise Peppin managed successfully to beat off multiple internal revolts and kept his empire intact. I was impressed.

But then poor Peppin was assassinated at around age 25 --- by another Karling !

Well , apparently the claims of the Merovingian's to the holdings of the Karling's are as good , or better , than the claims of the Karling's ?

Because my poor " Last Merovingian " became king of West Francia apon the death of Peppin ! Shortly thereafter , the Karling who held Middle Francia died of natural or unnatural causes ( ? ) and my " Last Merovingian " likewise became King of Middle Francia too.

After that the old Karling empire broke up into West Francia , Middle Francia , Kingdom of Germany , and Kingdom of Burgundy --- and all of those titles belong to Merovingian's !

The House of Merovingia has grown to 50 + members . My original charity case has become a rival. And , like I said , I'm not sure if any Karling's are even still around.

I know the Carolingian Bloodline is still around , because in going crazy with Seduction focus I somehow wound up with a bastard son who has both my own Saintly bloodline and the Carolingian Bloodline.

 

[StarSword]

Thanks for the examples! That really puts it in perspective. I know some don't like that certain things can happen so divergently so quickly, but I'm personally a fan of things having both a chance to go vaguely historically and to go in completely unheard-of directions.

Sacrificing him at the Blot especially must feel like an achievement...

Yeah, I'm pretty proud of that one. The Novgorod game was less dramatic but still fun to watch: he was murdered, died a Lunatic and had his claim war inherited by the preteen boy who inherited Middle Francia, then that son was murdered, too, and the other one inherited both kingdoms. There's still at least one independent Karling in that game: an Italian ruling chunks of France from the Italian Alps.

Spoiler: Yo I heard you like bordergore

Karl in this game is pretty bad at being Charlemagne, which, honestly? There's no such thing as "fate" in real life: he could've tripped walking downstairs and broken his neck before he ever came anywhere near being crowned Imperator Romanorum.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

These days I keep resetting my game unless the last Merovingian ascends the throne, in order to preserve the bloodline.

Usually this means HRE or Francia doesn't have a chance at formation. I become extremely surprised when Carloman's son manages to retake West Francia AND Italy, and formed the HRE despite that setback.

 

[horseless]

In my last Folcwalding Frisia run they lost France but controlled east and middle francia. At some point a German Karling inherited the kingdom of England (which was founded by a liberation revolt against Pictland), converted to anglo-saxon culture and formed Britannia. So now there is an Empire of Britannia formed by an anglo-saxon karling and a Holy Roman Empire formed by the lombards.