Great War: Vicky 3 + HoI 4

[Andreu]

Victoria 3 is focused on XIX century and we are seeing some amazing socio-economic mechanics We can enjoy a Victoria 3 game without war.

HoI 4 is focused on WW2 and has the best Paradox military mechanics.

Thinking about a late start date like 1910, 1914 or 1917 in Victoria 3, I'm dreaming about some mix (converter DLC?) about HoI4 mechanics and Victoria mechanics focused on the historical Great War and the Russian Civil War.

What do you think?

 

[Lucododosor]

There might be mods about that, but I highly doubt the devs will put that many start dates in the game, since they're a pain to maintain as the game gets updated. The same applies for the converter - there will be mods for that, but official converters are simply not worth it.

 

[Ololorium]

I don't think there will be any later start dates in Victoria. Modern Paradox games with the exception of CK limit themselves to 1-2 start dates, because too few people play later dates and too much work is needed to balance them every time a DLC or patch adds some new mechanics. Also, from the dev Interviews it's clear that Victoria 3 is going to have very little scripted content and all great wars, civil wars etc. are going to happen organically if circumstances are right (diplomatic plays can escalate into a big war between great powers if everyone is too confident, unhappy radicalized interest groups will start an Imperator/HoI-style Civil War).
So, later starts which focus on a specific scenario are going to be something for the modders to work on. Converter to HoI4 is also going to be a mod, just like any other converter except CK2-EU4.
Regarding the "mix" of mechanics, I highly doubt that's possible. We don't know anything about Victoria 3 combat yet, how good and how moddable it is, so in the best case it could rival HoI4's by itself or with a few modding tweaks. In the worst case... I guess we could always just use the converter (maybe even a back-converter, to play the war in HoI4, and interwar years in Victoria).

 

[HZguy]

Late game can include some stuff from HoI4, such as divisional management tools and battleplans. However, Vic3 will be focused on grand-strategy unlike purely strategic HoI4, so it doesn`t need all HoI4 war micromechanics

 

[kviiri]

I think a mod converter has already been announced? But I highly doubt an official one will be released. Official converters are just not very good moves business-wise, as they require maintenance work for every change in either of the games. (See how bad shape the CK2-EU4 converter has been for most of its life)

 

[Lord Lambert]

Thinking about a late start date like 1910, 1914 or 1917 in Victoria 3

Well... stop? Chances are high that there will be 1 start date. And that is a good thing. Let modders add in extra start dates, the base game should have 1.

 

[Austregisel]

Victoria 3 is focused on XIX century and we are seeing some amazing socio-economic mechanics We can enjoy a Victoria 3 game without war.

HoI 4 is focused on WW2 and has the best Paradox military mechanics.

Thinking about a late start date like 1910, 1914 or 1917 in Victoria 3, I'm dreaming about some mix (converter DLC?) about HoI4 mechanics and Victoria mechanics focused on the historical Great War and the Russian Civil War.

What do you think?

hearts of iron 4 doesn't have the best Paradox military system, as its system is totally different from the others for another reason, to represent WW2, if you put the same system in other games like Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis it won't leave the game best. And I don't support simply putting the same system in Victoria 3, as most of it is a totally different era of militaria, much closer to the other Paradox games.

 

[darth254]

just sucks that WW1 gets relegated to some sort of limbo between Vicky & HOI......with the ole adage of "well there's mods"

 

[Limbojack]

I doubt we'll ever see another official save game converted from PDX. The CK2 team already complained about all the extra work that went into updating the CK2-EU4 converted with every patch, so I'd be surprised if they make another one. Luckily there will be mods for this, but unless you find a start date mod, you'll have to play from 1836.

 

[Limbojack]

just sucks that WW1 gets relegated to some sort of limbo between Vicky & HOI......with the ole adage of "well there's mods"

Hopefully, V3's combat systems will be good enough to do the Great War justice.

 

[Amallric]

HoI4 doesn't have the best military mechanics, in fact most of its military mechanics are awful. Where HoI4 really stands out from other HoI series games is in the way military production is represented. Having several types of factories and taking strategic ressources into account to at least some extent is a step forward in comparison to HoI2 or 3. But then obviously that particular aspect will by necessity be overwhelmingly better represented in Vic3, since military production is going to be integrated into a fully simulated economy model.

The only thing from HoI4 that could be reused would be equipment. It would be nice to have massive rearmament programs to keep up to date in the arms race, and then have older, obsolete equipment stored away to use in case of emergency or smuggled abroad to arm natives or rebels. Everything else should remain where it is.

 

[Andreu]

Hopefully, V3's combat systems will be good enough to do the Great War justice.

But the historical Great War or the historical Russian Civil War will not exist without late start date! (If you start 80 years before, the world will develop differently from how it happened in reality. Archduke Franz Ferdinand could die of old age and the cradle of the revolution could be Berlin and not Moscow, why not. I agree with that. It’s logical and I love it )

Late start date & synergies with HoI... That’s the topic I wanted to open up.

 

[Buttons12345]

Horrible idea. Hearts of Iron in every form has been based around WW2 and struggles to function as a system without some form of railroading towards war whether events or focuses. With every nation getting generic focuses you end up with a game where next to nothing happens as nothing instigates major conflict. The only two alternatives are just assigning existing focus trees to nations (Nazi tree goes to Germany or failing that, Prussia) but that probably wouldn't even function due to completely different ownership of territories. If Czechoslovakia doesn't exist, how can you have a treaty of Munich? The third possible outcome is procedurally generated focus trees which would be a complete crapshoot whether the export if functional as an actual game or whether "World War Two" involves Poland vs Hungary and Serbia.

 

[wilcoxchar]

just sucks that WW1 gets relegated to some sort of limbo between Vicky & HOI......with the ole adage of "well there's mods"

March of the Eagles didn't sell well so short term in-between games probably aren't good business. Especially when military focused.

 

[Buttons12345]

March of the Eagles didn't sell well so short term in-between games probably aren't good business. Especially when military focused.

Honestly I think WW1 would work fine in as a hearts of iron DLC. Maybe not ideal for HOI 4 with its peace conferences as opposed to event based peace treaties, and focus trees would probably need some UI work because all major ones would triple in size at minimum (Germany winning, Germany losing and falling to communists, Germany losing but the Kaiser stays in power, Germany losing but the Nazis never rise to prominence)

 

[Ololorium]

Honestly I think WW1 would work fine in as a hearts of iron DLC. Maybe not ideal for HOI 4 with its peace conferences as opposed to event based peace treaties, and focus trees would probably need some UI work because all major ones would triple in size at minimum (Germany winning, Germany losing and falling to communists, Germany losing but the Kaiser stays in power, Germany losing but the Nazis never rise to prominence)

A standalone DLC ending in 1921 or 1925 maybe, but if you mean having a full 1914-1947 campaign then please no. HoI4 can't deliver fun peacetime gameplay, nobody should suffer through 20 years of it.

 

[Buttons12345]

A standalone DLC ending in 1921 or 1925 maybe, but if you mean having a full 1914-1947 campaign then please no. HoI4 can't deliver fun peacetime gameplay, nobody should suffer through 20 years of it.

That's a fair point. I actually enjoyed the mini pure combat campaigns in HOI 2 (North Africa, Invasion of France, Fall Blau was one I think) and missed them until I discovered the Operational Art of War Series. But yeah 1912-1925 alone or so could be interesting. However, as was said a standalone game over a small period that isn't WW2 probably won't sell particularly well simply due to lack of interest.

If Vic 3 has a good enough combat system a world war could be interesting an a 1900 or 1910 start date could be worthwhile. My suggestion for combat would probably be something like no more sieges, you set foot in a province you control it, and fortifications provide defensive bonuses, you can max out fort level at start with bonus per level increasing with tech. Ideally this would lead towards an increasing push from independent maneuvering armies to actual solid frontlines and campaigns go from 3 armies of 50-100k walking across Europe to a single line from Belgium to Switzerland with over a million soldiers. Early on spreading out your armies means they are just individually overwhelmed or cannot be reinforced quickly enough while late game you have so many soldiers and battles are so drawn out that spreading your forces across the entire line is better than fielding three maneuver groups of 300k soldiers who if bypassed will be unable to catch up to the enemy as they overrun your country.

 

[Austregisel]

I prefer a approach of system with elements from March of the Eagles and Imperator Rome, with some adjustment for Late Game wars.

 

[Xaelyn]

March of the Eagles didn't sell well so short term in-between games probably aren't good business. Especially when military focused.

If only there was an example of a successful short term, military focused, inbetween game. Perhaps set between the late modern and cold war eras?
A man can only dream.

 

[wilcoxchar]

If only there was an example of a successful short term, military focused, inbetween game. Perhaps set between the late modern and cold war eras?
A man can only dream.

East vs. West didn't even make it to release.