I always find the first circumnavigation and dismantling the HRE to be good ways to use prestige to lower liberty desire. Hardly optimal play to have to rely on those though!
Fixing annoying subjects
- Thread starter Martynios
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prestige ain't hard to get, I often dump 60-100 prestige a year onto vassals by 1490 if I started as a big guy
basically, once cannons roll in, if I have the forcelimit to have 20 cannons, I have infinite prestige. Intentionally, too, i sometimes just get into wars with neighbors with rich allies (hamburg, lubeck etc) so I can get war reps+ prestige. sweet
It's the meta, man, we just have to live with it. As austria I do it so I can leech my pu's, and so on
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I preferably don't want to live with it, which is why I posted this suggestion.
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Should be in the suggestions folder.
I think this is an interesting idea, but it would need to be pretty costly. I think your concept of being able to declare a "suppression" war is fine, and it should act like a war of independence, complete with support independence treaties getting called. I would want to make sure of two things:
1. If you white peace, the vassal becomes independent. You've demonstrated your inability to control them.
2. You should get AE equivalent to force-vassalizing them in the first place, since you just sent an army to suppress their populace by force.
I think this is an interesting idea, but it would need to be pretty costly. I think your concept of being able to declare a "suppression" war is fine, and it should act like a war of independence, complete with support independence treaties getting called. I would want to make sure of two things:
1. If you white peace, the vassal becomes independent. You've demonstrated your inability to control them.
2. You should get AE equivalent to force-vassalizing them in the first place, since you just sent an army to suppress their populace by force.
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As far as the world is concerned, they are already your subject. I agree with the idea that it should have some downsides, but aggressive expansion doesn't really make sense.
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The whole point is that they're refusing to give you taxes or send troops and actively courting support for their independence and so you're repressing their population by force even before they've started to rebel. It is not really that different from vassalizing them in the first place, and should carry similar diplomatic penalties. It also represents a meaningful in-game penalty, without which this mechanic will just make liberty desire meaningless.
The other advantage of AE is that it's an almost universal cost of declaring war and taking a wargoal, which is what you're doing.
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Aggressive expansion is for taking land, whether directly or indirectly. This is neither of those. Consider they are a vassal, and they are refusing to pay gold and men, especially when they are technically obligated to do so. Going to war to make the vassal fulfill their obligations as a vassal isn't worthy for nations to coalition over. Perhaps a specific nation would like a vassal to become independent, but not random nearby nations en-masse.
I understand that there would need to be some penalty behind it, but AE isn't the appropriate way to do it.
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In this time period or nearly any other, refusing to pay taxes to a government they are due is an invitation to conflict. Supporters of independence getting called makes sense, but encouraging populations to not pay taxes isn't something most governments would want to put on the table in the general sense.
Fully support this.
Playing as Japan, 350 regiments, 500 navy, 2500+ development, largest great power in the world by far.
One vassal gets fed a fat province they have a core on(reconquering).
Their sudden 240 development gets to their head, 50+ liberty desire that just keeps going up.
Nobody supports their independence.
Have useless vassal til the end of the game.
Playing as Japan, 350 regiments, 500 navy, 2500+ development, largest great power in the world by far.
One vassal gets fed a fat province they have a core on(reconquering).
Their sudden 240 development gets to their head, 50+ liberty desire that just keeps going up.
Nobody supports their independence.
Have useless vassal til the end of the game.
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It doesn't matter if you have 10000 development. 400 subject gets a flat 100% no matter what you do, with the only real way to offset being prestige basically. At that rate of expansion you can front prestige on some of these guys but it's terrible right now.
800 regiments vs 40 regiments should mean more than 400 dev does against 10000+ dev. That you get this LD with no non-DLC counterplay is really junky.
800 regiments vs 40 regiments should mean more than 400 dev does against 10000+ dev. That you get this LD with no non-DLC counterplay is really junky.
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I don't think it would make LD meaningless; after all, a strong subject backed by supporters will be able to defeat you regardless of whether this is implemented. However a weak vassal which has no reason at all to be rebellious should really be able to be surpressed; and isn't fighting a war against your own vassal for land you already conquered costly enough?
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Then we should also get AE when a revolt in one of your provinces is suppressed, right ?
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I suppose since the new patch is bringing some changes to subjects I should revive this.
I suppose a few weeks before a major patch is a better time than any to bring this issue up.
42 Agrees and no Disagrees...
The community seems to be quite unanimous.
The community seems to be quite unanimous.
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