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Europa Universalis IV: Developer diary 29 - For the Horde!

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Europa Universalis IV 81902 EUIV: Bug Reports 450 EUIV: Suggestions 19150 EUIV: Technical Support 6720 EUIV: FAQ & Strategy Guides 235 EUIV: AAR's, Let's Plays, and Fan Fiction EU IV: Alternate History Short Story Contest Contr 29
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stilgarpl said:
If I may quote Bernd from Egosoft - "Complex - good, complicated - bad". Remember early EU3, when you had empire of 100 provinces and then you invented tax assessor? Open ledger on buildings tab, click, scroll, click, scroll - 100 times. Colonize province? Send a colonist to every province. Trade? Send a merchant to trade center.

Province decisions were just as that. Remember building roads and post offices (province decisions in HTTT) in every province?
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No one is arguing in favour of that. Remember the state controlled guilds that France had? That decision had some actual meat to it. It was not a just spam. Province decisions have good applications. I think however it is important that you understand that we simply want a tool as versatile as province decisions, not necessarily province decision. For one I would be happy to see province decisions gone if I got something to replace it. What I do not want is to have to go with roundabout solutions because I can no longer use province decisions. Fact of the matter is that we do not have any idea if something is going to replace province decisions in terms of modding, therefore I bring criticism.
 
I'd say city(or province) population can work really well if used appropriately: such as affecting taxes collected, garrison, production and revolt size, etc...
Why'd PI ever thought about COMPLETELY removing it? :/
 
Darkrenown said:
George LeS said:
One thing which might shut us up could be a part of a DD devoted to modding.

Fat chance.
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No need to be passive aggressive about it, it's not like we don't do modding DDs. Here's a couple that were easy to find:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?408750-Development-Diary-33-17th-of-June-2009 -HoI3
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?572577-Crusader-Kings-Dev-Diary-21-Usermodding -CK2
Perhaps this might lead you to conclude a EUIV modding dev diary is not impossible?
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Oh, you may have a DD about modding, but do you actually expect the grumbling to stop when it comes? ;)

Promising changes to hordes and provinces all in all. population numbers were pretty useless anyhow (and, as they were easily read as province pops, rebellions larger than the population were not rare). province decisions may be missed by modders, but they are unneeded in the base game (where envoys probably can do the same). Until we see how well envoys and buildings can be modified/added, we don't really know, how much modability changed. Not that we even really know that they would "need" to be changed at all..
 
I'm hoping for very flexible Envoys, because I think it would be more interesting than Province Decisions anyways. In Fact, depending on what I saw, I would probably start supporting the removal of Province Decisions wholesale if one of the EUIV devs could, say, just for instance, maybe, post the contents of the "common\Envoys.txt" file, or whatever text file controls what envoys can go where and do what when and how, in this thread.
 
Darkrenown said:
No need to be passive aggressive about it, it's not like we don't do modding DDs. Here's a couple that were easy to find:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?408750-Development-Diary-33-17th-of-June-2009 -HoI3
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?572577-Crusader-Kings-Dev-Diary-21-Usermodding -CK2

Perhaps this might lead you to conclude a EUIV modding dev diary is not impossible?
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Yeah I assumed its a given at some point, though I'd like it soon :)

Orr you could give us a data dump of every text file but no EXE, THAT would be awesome ;)
 
Tkh said:
Why'd PI ever thought about COMPLETELY removing it? :/
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EU3's population system was terrible and not worth keeping. A good population system looks like, say, Victoria II's - and making Victoria II's population system work requires that you drag in a whole bunch of Victoria II's inner workings.
 
It's a shame Paradox, you somehow manage to change more and more things for the worse in my opinion. Why wouldn't you want to see what buildings a province already has whenever you click one? The latest changes in EU4 (or latest published) really push it too far, gameplay depth seems to be losing ground to "playability", as if the game was so hard to understand. Instead of revealing more of the underlying structure of the game, enhancing gameplay, you are starting to cover the code and make this beautiful game a browsergame more so than the game it deserves to be.

I am starting to doubt wether I'd buy this game on release.
 
Sliverious said:
Why wouldn't you want to see what buildings a province already has whenever you click one?
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I don't know about you, but more than 75% of times I click a province, I do it to assess its revolt risk or to build units or to check whether an enemy has a claim on it etc., not to see the buildings. I can live with having to make an extra click whenever I actually want to see the buildings.

Instead of revealing more of the underlying structure of the game, enhancing gameplay, you are starting to cover the code
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In what way does separating the province interface into two tabs "cover" (do you mean "obscure"?) the code? It's not as if the buildings were in any way hidden from the player - on the contrary, you can also see other players' buildings now. The new interface makes the game mechanics more transparent, not more obscure.
 
Sliverious said:
It's a shame Paradox, you somehow manage to change more and more things for the worse in my opinion. Why wouldn't you want to see what buildings a province already has whenever you click one? The latest changes in EU4 (or latest published) really push it too far, gameplay depth seems to be losing ground to "playability", as if the game was so hard to understand. Instead of revealing more of the underlying structure of the game, enhancing gameplay, you are starting to cover the code and make this beautiful game a browsergame more so than the game it deserves to be.

I am starting to doubt wether I'd buy this game on release.
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I'm not sure what the bad thing is? So you don't see buildings immediately. How does this affect gameplay depth at all? What do browser games have to do with it? How does it hide underlying structures of the game? Colour me confused but I don't see your point.
 
Schwungrad said:
I don't know about you, but more than 75% of times I click a province, I do it to assess its revolt risk or to build units or to check whether an enemy has a claim on it etc., not to see the buildings. I can live with having to make an extra click whenever I actually want to see the buildings.
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Me too, I just hope we can still build building from the ledger - upgrading forts and naval bases in Victoria 2 is no fun at all... It's ok in CK2, because our demesne is just few holdings, but when I have to build 50 forts in EU3, and I will have to click on every province and then on the tab and then on the building...
 
stilgarpl said:
Me too, I just hope we can still build building from the ledger - upgrading forts and naval bases in Victoria 2 is no fun at all... It's ok in CK2, because our demesne is just few holdings, but when I have to build 50 forts in EU3, and I will have to click on every province and then on the tab and then on the building...
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I've got a feeling the EU4 ledger is going to be horribly short and almost useless.
 
Wallain said:
No one is arguing in favour of that. Remember the state controlled guilds that France had? That decision had some actual meat to it. It was not a just spam. Province decisions have good applications. I think however it is important that you understand that we simply want a tool as versatile as province decisions, not necessarily province decision. For one I would be happy to see province decisions gone if I got something to replace it. What I do not want is to have to go with roundabout solutions because I can no longer use province decisions. Fact of the matter is that we do not have any idea if something is going to replace province decisions in terms of modding, therefore I bring criticism.
Click to expand...

Example in point was Magna Mundi's religious minorities system.
 
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