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What has bothered me is if you used this method to add up all the features of the game out of the box, how many points per dollar would it be? 20? That is why I made a thread a long time ago about the value of DLC. I have bought a lot of DLC (most at full price) for this game just because I really like EUIV and what Paradox does, but the value of it always makes me cringe. That is why I would actually fall into the boat of people that would prefer a completely new iteration biennially or triennially.
 
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Then you are paying for the *same* features again.

Touche, but we already do that. I bought Art of War so I could transfer provinces to my allies and them to me (there were other features as well). That feature was given away in a later DLC. I bought Wealth of Nations for privateers. That was also given away in a future DLC. Those are just a couple examples off the top of my head. A system that offers a future DLC at a discount if it contains a duplicate feature you already own would be great. Not gonna happen any time soon though.
 
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Touche, but we already do that. I bought Art of War so I could transfer provinces to my allies and them to me (there were other features as well). That feature was given away in a later DLC. I bought Wealth of Nations for privateers. That was also given away in a future DLC. Those are just a couple examples off the top of my head. A system that offers a future DLC at a discount if it contains a duplicate feature you already own would be great. Not gonna happen any time soon though.
Yeah, I definitely do not like that practice either. If they need to do it they should give something to the old-DLC owners "in return", like improving some other DLC feature (cf. RNW rework).
 
Yeah, I definitely do not like that practice either. If they need to do it they should give something to the old-DLC owners "in return", like improving some other DLC feature (cf. RNW rework).
The RNW rework can reasonably be argued to have been remediation of a defect in a product offered for sale, which is why it was in the free patch.
 
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another development diary for Europa Universalis 4. With The Cossacks released, we'll now be getting back to non-feature related development diaries for a while. Before I start yammering on, however, I thought I'd let you know that we're currently working on a hotfix for 1.14, due to be released soon(tm). In addition to the hotfix, we're also working on a larger bugfixing patch (as we always do after an expansion) that currently has no decided ETA.

Since the hot topic the day seems to be the pricing of The Cossacks, I thought I would go ahead and address the bugbear in the room by explaining how we (we being EU4 specifically) price expansions.

What's in a price tag?
A number of comments have emerged along the lines of 'Why is Cossacks, which has the same amount of features as Common Sense, $/€5 more expensive?" The answer to that question, quite simply, is that they do not have the same amount and size of features.

When designing an expansion, we make a plan for the number and size of features that will be in said expansion. We break up features according to the following classifications:

Mega - A mega feature that represents a very large time investment and a major change in how the game can be played, such as introducing new game modes. The Nation Designer and Random New World are the only mega features to date.
Major - A major feature that takes a large time investment and has a large impact on the game. Examples of these include Estates from Cossacks, Subject Interactions from Common Sense and the Army Planner from Art of War.
Medium - A medium-sized feature that takes about an average time investment and usually has a fairly large impact on the game. Examples include Development from Common Sense, Nahuatl mechanics from El Dorado and Horde Unity from Cossacks.
Minor - A small feature that can be implemented quickly and generally has limited impact on the game. Examples include Threaten War from Cossacks, Return Province from Common Sense and Selling Ships from Art of War.

We make sure that each expansion has a good mix of major, medium and minor features (with a mega feature instead of several major ones in CoP and ED) and then sum up the total number of features where mega features are worth 10 points, major features are worth 6 points, medium features are worth 3 points and minor features 1.5 points. This is then divided by price to create the actual value, which we ensure stays very close to the value for money in previous expansions (our highest 'value for money' expansion is Wealth of Nations owing to the low price tag, but it's only 5% more value for money than The Cossacks, for example). We never factor free content into the price - while Art of War came with a mega map rework, this had nothing to do with its $20 price tag, and neither did the Random New World rework influence the Cossacks price tag. We set our price purely according to the actual features you are getting for paying for them.

For those still not convinced, I'll make a quick comparison between Cossacks and Common Sense. Here are the 'expansion features' lists for each:

Common Sense vs The Cossacks


In total, Common Sense had 2 major features (Subject Interactions, Parliaments), 4 medium (Protestantism, Development, Buddhism, Devotion) and 6 minor (Free Cities, Remove Electorate, Pause Westernization, Dismiss Advisor, Government Ranks, Return Province) features. This gives a total of 33 points, or 2.2 points per $.



In total, The Cossacks had 2 major (Diplomatic Feedback, Estates), 7 medium (Advanced Change Culture, Build Directly to Army, Improved Espionage, Horde Unity, New Subject Interactions, Native Policies, Tengri) and 9 minor (Name Your Heir, Victory Cards, Concede Colonial Area, Distribute Spoils, Construct in Subjects, Threaten War, Forced Migration, Declare Colonial War, Raze) features. This gives a total of 46.5 points, or 2.32 points per $.

One final thing I wanted to mention is that The Cossacks, in addition to being our expansion with the single most paid content (Art of War had 3 major, 4 medium, 10 minor for a total of 2.25 points per $), also had a huge amount of free content, even if you leave out the RNW rework. The region rework took about a month and the interface reworks in country view and the interface rework to macro builder and country view took weeks and weeks of artist and coder time. In terms of actual team time spent on it, the Art of War map changes were far cheaper, as much of the work was done by our beta testers and map modders. Just because something isn't immediately visible on the map does not mean it did not take hard work on our part.

I think that pretty much wraps it up. You're of course free to think that our pricing model is wrong for one reason or another, but I hope you should at least be able to understand where we're coming from, and that we're not just setting our prices because we decided that we wanted to hit you for an extra five dollars this time around.

Pardon me for sounding like a total jerk and odds are that I'm repeating someone else's statement but I find this concept of yours as an excuse. In other games I see $5-7 for expansions that add minimal concepts while new mechanics that alter the game in its entirety escalate from $5-7 to $11-15. Twenty is either a joke or a bid for every cent you can get from fans of your game. Despite what I said, did I pay $20 for the expansions for Endless Legend and Civilization Beyond Earth? Yes, and that was because they added more than a game changing mechanic but new factions built around said mechanics. In Endless Legend we got a major faction, the Forgotten, based on espionage that couldn't research technology on their own and have to either buy it or steal it. In Beyond Earth we got mobile ocean cities, new diplomacy mechanics, hybrid affinity units, a trade system, and four new factions.

I know additions like those I rattled off for either example expansions can't be done in EU4 but additions to a single religion or modifications to an already established mechanic do not cause anything close to that sort of price nor would adding something new constitute $20. Doing both is $12 minimum, $17 tops. Respond or not, counter or don't, I honestly don't care. I'll either wait on the summer sale for Cossacks (since I know Mare Nostrum won't be on sale anytime soon) or for someone to give it to me. If, and only if, I see either as under $10 in anything close to the near future will I consider the purchase worthwhile.

Oh, almost forgot about paying that much for Conclave. I felt like it was worth the price because it made sense. Seeing what Cossacks does makes me feels like it's closer to $15 max.
 
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People seem so much more willing to drop tons of money on video games than they used to be. I find it a little odd.

Personally, I'd rather see new iterations of the game or bigger expansions, because I'd rather have fewer but more meaningful aspects of the game. Instead we get a large quantity of shallow additions. Development, estates, parliament... they're just small and shallow because they come in individual dlc.
 
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People seem so much more willing to drop tons of money on video games than they used to be. I find it a little odd.

Personally, I'd rather see new iterations of the game or bigger expansions, because I'd rather have fewer but more meaningful aspects of the game. Instead we get a large quantity of shallow additions. Development, estates, parliament... they're just small and shallow because they come in individual dlc.

This is exactly my main problem with how Paradox does things now
 
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