EU4 - Dev Diary - December 3rd 2015

[Biomirth]

My main problem with many of the expansions is that, despite their names, they consist of a patchwork of different features.

For example, how much of the features in Cossacks can actually be attributed to 'cossacks' gameplay?

And El Dorado: how much of its features are 'Conquistador' game play?

It's true, and it's relevant to how we as consumers will assess a new expansion's value, however the Paradox model is completely understandable from a development point of view: They create a bunch of new features and weave them into a semi-coherent expansion, but then new features accumulate that need to go somewhere, so into the next expansion they go. What else could they do other than delay any expansions until they'd entirely exhausted their arsenal of awesome ideas?

It's part of why as a casual it's a bit hard to keep up with and why EUIV feels like a whole series of different games each patch or two and expansion. The actual changes over time are fairly dramatic but many individual changes are not.

 

[DC123456789]

While I think that the value of each DLC is fine, my concern is more that they seem to be spread out over a myriad of basically unrelated things rather than having one or two foci (more like CK2), which I would prefer as an expansion model.

 

[Balesir]

Don't tell that to an economist.

They might get violent.

Economists are actually among those saying that humans are really not good at estimating/assigning "value". I say this with the background of an Economics and Finance MSc and considerable "interest" reading. If you like I can go into some of the specific ways in which humans are prone to particular biases, flawed heuristics and cognitive illusions. Some are even proving of interest due to their link with drug dependency susceptibility and other risk taking behaviours. I could even describe the design approaches and pitfalls in designing experiments to assess the impact of such cognitive flaws.

Economics is tricky to approach as a science due to the inherent and somewhat directed (read: perverse) variability of human behaviour, but techniques for measuring and accounting for the operation of the marvellous machine that is the human brain are improving all the time. And, in aggregate, much of that variability becomes quite predictable in its outcome.

 

[Tweakee]

While I think that the value of each DLC is fine, my concern is more that they seem to be spread out over a myriad of basically unrelated things rather than having one or two foci (more like CK2), which I would prefer as an expansion model.

That's part of "value" for me.

The CK2 expansions immediately give me incentive to play the game more. "Come try out this new time period, these new storylines, these new characters!"

The EU4 expansions (ones like The Cossacks at least) feel more like they punish me for not buying them. "Buy this or the game will be harder or more tedious for you than everyone else!"

So with CK2, I buy the expansions on day one and start playing again. With EU4, I have often shelved the game when an expansion comes out, and only play it again once there's a sale.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

The most interesting thing in the Dev Diary is that Development was classed as a "medium" feature. It may be medium in terms of coding hours and artwork, but it completely changes the balance of the game. In terms of value to the *player*, it's surely a major feature. If you don't believe me, try playing EUIV post-1.12 without CS.

 

[Ntek_sr]

They update the game and change gameplay and then sell an DLC to make it possible to play.

Just looking if they fixed the game since Common Scens with I bought. But the "update" before Common Scens had made it to another game. Whole new strategy that I didn't like.

I did like the studio before but I'm more careful before I buy games from them now. They have really abused the idea of DLC a lot.

 

[ChildeR]

They update the game and change gameplay and then sell an DLC to make it possible to play.

I played more than a month after CS without the DLC and currently play without Cossacks. The game is very playable, and I find it more interesting than before the patch.

If you hit CTDs, you may not find it very playable, of course, but I don't see anything intentional that would "force" me to buy the DLC, nor did I with CS. (Much was made about limited building slots, but it is the same for all players and AI, and I liked the significance it added to choices even without the DLC.)

 

[KaiserNoncehelmIII]

Love the response to the communities thoughts

 

[Rengar39]

Don't foget they allow you to roll back to old patches, so if you don't like the new gameplay or feel that it's uplayable without the DLC, you still have access to the game you originaly bought.

 

[rdmoulton]

Don't foget they allow you to roll back to old patches, so if you don't like the new gameplay or feel that it's uplayable without the DLC, you still have access to the game you originaly bought.

Thanks for the standard broken record reply. I'm sure many have forgotten they *allow* us to do so.

 

[DKM]

It will not be out before new years.

I'm gonna be honest. When I first read this, I thought you wrote "it will not be out for a few years."

 

[Deaghaidh]

Generally speaking, the more you have to work to convince the customer your price isn't too high, the more likely it is that your price is too high.

 

[War_lord]

I think the complaining players are spoilt honestly. How many other developers give away parts of DLC content in free patches? How many companies actually bother to explains why DLC is priced the way it is. And how many developers actually allow any user criticism on their official forums?

And the perception that Cossacks lacks content is down to the fact that the majority of players don't play as hordes, and the most major gameplay changes are to said hordes. And if you felt the DLC cost too much, don't bloody buy it.

 

[Ntek_sr]

If Paradox only listen to people on this Forum they will ruin them self. Here is mostly... I will use the kind word: "Yes -sayer" that will rope "Hurray" to whatever Paradox is doing.

Top critic on Steam is new, it have 425 votes and is problably only a small fraction of people that agree to that. It is about that Paradox changed the game and created a pay-wall. For myself I don't care about the money. They changed the game to something I don't like.

It's not harder than that I don't want the manufaktur to change the engine on my car without asking me then I return it for service.

No, I am not the one that roll back and try to use the game in any specific patch. I am one of the waste majority that votes with my feet then I became fooled.

 

[grommile]

If Paradox only listen to people on this Forum they will ruin them self. Here is mostly... I will use the kind word: "Yes -sayer" that will rope "Hurray" to whatever Paradox is doing.

Some of the most vocal posters have been consistently criticizing Paradox's design and implementation decisions, y'know.

Top critic on Steam is new, it have 425 votes and is problably only a small fraction of people that agree to that. It is about that Paradox changed the game and created a pay-wall. For myself I don't care about the money. They changed the game to something I don't like.

Unless your preferred version of EU4 was in the 1.0 through 1.3 range (which are not available as pseudo-betas), the game you like is still available to you.

 

[War_lord]

If Paradox only listen to people on this Forum they will ruin them self. Here is mostly... I will use the kind word: "Yes -sayer" that will rope "Hurray" to whatever Paradox is doing.

Top critic on Steam is new, it have 425 votes and is problably only a small fraction of people that agree to that. It is about that Paradox changed the game and created a pay-wall. For myself I don't care about the money. They changed the game to something I don't like.

It's not harder than that I don't want the manufaktur to change the engine on my car without asking me then I return it for service.

No, I am not the one that roll back and try to use the game in any specific patch. I am one of the waste majority that votes with my feet then I became fooled.

It's more that you're insisting that the manufacturer should put their new engine in your car for free because you can't be bothered holding on to your old one. Vote with your wallet, if something isn't worth it to you, don't buy it. Insisting you should have got it free because it isn't worth it to you is childish. Stop whining.

 

[Ntek_sr]

If you live in Paradox-universe then you are stuck with Paradox whatever you like it or not. Parallell of that universe there is a Real Universe, I live there. I tried to like the "new" EU4 this summer but quited after a while, disappointed over the behavior of Paradox and began to play other games.

Now, I just watched if my old favorit-game have changed back. It hasn't. The only reason I wrote this is because of that I am from Sweden... Paradox was part of a thing who made me proud to be from Sweden. I thought it would be sad if Paradox became one more company that let there succés make them greedy and begin to abuse the reputation they had build up.

But... I will not do any Crusade over that.... then one disappear another will raise. There is a market for this kind of game!

 

[War_lord]

If you live in Paradox-universe then you are stuck with Paradox whatever you like it or not. Parallell of that universe there is a Real Universe, I live there. I tried to like the "new" EU4 this summer but quited after a while, disappointed over the behavior of Paradox and began to play other games.

Now, I just watched if my old favorit-game have changed back. It hasn't. The only reason I wrote this is because of that I am from Sweden... Paradox was part of a thing who made me proud to be from Sweden. I thought it would be sad if Paradox became one more company that let there succés make them greedy and begin to abuse the reputation they had build up.

But... I will not do any Crusade over that.... then one disappear another will raise. There is a market for this kind of game!

Then go way then, I doubt Wiz will lose sleep over your brave defection to the non-existent competitor. Honestly, why do people come on here and complain and gripe as if Paradox is going to cater to their every whim? If a restaurant changes the sauce they put on my favorite dish to one that I dislike, I don't whine at management that they owe me the old sauce. I either learn to like the new sauce or find a new restaurant.

 

[grommile]

If you live in Paradox-universe then you are stuck with Paradox whatever you like it or not.

If I want continuous-time (rather than turn-based) global-scale strategy games (and I do, because every turn-based global-scale strategy game I have played, from Civ I and Master of Magic through to Civ 5 and Endless Space, ends up inflicting exactly the same flavour of tedium on me after a while), I'm pretty much stuck with Paradox.

 

[User4035]

Humans in general are honestly not very good at estimating value, so we'll just have to try and be better at explaining what you get for your money in the future.

As an economist ill just mention this:
Value is entirely dependant on the circumstances.

Also, try putting some teasers in your dev diaries for the next week so that those of us who find the current weeks topic boring can get excited and ponder about the next week.