I think units don't reinforce when in battle and I had a bad tendency to always counterattack leaving my armies with very little R&R.
I'm ashamed to say it, but I never bought/tried Darkest Hour. I loved HOI2, but disliked the over-exposure of related third party offerings that had to compete with each other (Arsenal of Democracy, Darkest Hour, Iron Cross) as well as shiny new Paradox offerings.Ok, here my three main reasons why Darkest Hour is superior to Hearts of Iron 4
1- The content. Darkest hour came out with only the 1914 and the 1936 scenario, but it gained more and more content as time passed by FREE patches. paradox interactive have been milking DLCs since europa universalis 3, but Hearts of Iron 4 turned into paradox Rome 2 total war, even the songs come as DLCs...
So, hunting around for a compelling, "finished" game led me here. I just purchased Darkest Hour, based on some of the comments in this thread. But I'm ambivalent which WW2 experience I want to try first (well, re-try). I already own Arsenal of Democracy (and Iron Cross, though I never really figured out how it fit into the scheme of things) as well as HOI3 +expansions. Time being more valuable than money these days, I'm wondering if the (presumably highly biased) crowd here has anything particularly positive or negative to say about some of the other "competitors" to Darkest Hour besides HOI4? E.g., would some of the statements made in this thread (about Darkest Hour vs HOI4) apply equally to comparisons of the latest version of HOI3 or Arsenal of Democracy to HOI4?
DH has the best graphics, map and ability for alternate history type modding (flexible event structure, lots of unique commands, etc) but the weakness is that the combat is pretty pathetic. There's very much a meta, certain things are borked outright (I generally try to have as little to do with the naval systems as possible because they're so frustrating) and the WW1 scenario in particular is horribly railroaded but still plays out as fast as the WW2 scenario, especially in the East.I'm ashamed to say it, but I never bought/tried Darkest Hour. I loved HOI2, but disliked the over-exposure of related third party offerings that had to compete with each other (Arsenal of Democracy, Darkest Hour, Iron Cross) as well as shiny new Paradox offerings.
Although, every previous attempt I made to get into HOI3 left me disappointed, I'm currently trying HOI3, again. I need to take a break from some of my favorite Paradox games that are looking like permanent, buggy Beta efforts these days, thanks to the current DLC system. And I don't really want to waste my time experimenting with HOI4, given my experience with early HOI3, and the fact that I can't believe a WW2 game can possibly work if you change the rules around every few months. Tried some older games, Civ6, etc., but want to get back to Paradox games if they were just somewhat stable.
So, hunting around for a compelling, "finished" game led me here. I just purchased Darkest Hour, based on some of the comments in this thread. But I'm ambivalent which WW2 experience I want to try first (well, re-try). I already own Arsenal of Democracy (and Iron Cross, though I never really figured out how it fit into the scheme of things) as well as HOI3 +expansions. Time being more valuable than money these days, I'm wondering if the (presumably highly biased) crowd here has anything particularly positive or negative to say about some of the other "competitors" to Darkest Hour besides HOI4? E.g., would some of the statements made in this thread (about Darkest Hour vs HOI4) apply equally to comparisons of the latest version of HOI3 or Arsenal of Democracy to HOI4?
The comment about the "almost useless airforce", for example, leaves me a bit concerned that I might find some aspects of Darkest Hour unsatisfying, as well.
You can prioritize specific units to upgrade and repair before others in DH too. But maybe HOI4's feature is different.Only thing I kind-of enjoy from HoI4 is the prototyping of equipment, and the sort-of way units can be designated elite and upgraded before the others with those, but I don't know if it works. XD
HoI4 seems hopelessly lost in development. I guess WWII simulators for a company that's grown to be as big as Paradox has is too controversial unless they cram everything they can into it that allows for total fungibility of the historical aspects.You can prioritize specific units to upgrade and repair before others in DH too. But maybe HOI4's feature is different.
From what I've seen and read on HOI4 in the forums, I'm sure you can call it many things but it's definitely not a WW2 simulator (more like a meme generator). Cramming as many side tasks as they can into the game seems more to have the player engaging with *something* since they decided to try and automate the main gameplay loop (of moving the pieces around the board yourself). Otherwise the massively increased numbers of provinces and units compared to the HOI2 generation would stretch people's capability to react in real time. HOI4 just goes to prove that more is not always better IMO...HoI4 seems hopelessly lost in development. I guess WWII simulators for a company that's grown to be as big as Paradox has is too controversial unless they cram everything they can into it that allows for total fungibility of the historical aspects.
Upgrading in DH feels megalithic and "board-gameish" with universals applied all across and instantly, whereas I do like that HoI4 will(allegedly) count every single tank and every single tank variant, and attempt to ship that deluxe Tiger VI to your favored fash-bois.
- Logistics report!
- Heil meine Führer! We are making 47824 infanterie equipment per day...
- Enough of that! Every time I need some useful information you start with this... I'm trying to plan Barbarossa, I don't care how many you make per day.
- Very sorry meine Führer. But as you can see, we keep an exact count of every bullet, this is good, ja?
- Yes, very. Now let's try figure out something useful... So we're producing a lot of it, right?
- Ha ha a lot of it, this is very funny meine Führer, good joke. In fact we have so much we could arm every man, woman and child on the planet. We ran out of space to stockpile it all, but luckily people from occupied territories decided to help, they appear from time to time and carry it to the woods, for safekeeping. As you can see, they like us a lot.
- So we've kind of overproduced... How did this happen?
- Well, ha ha, this is actually quite a funny story. You remember 1936 when you ordered 10 infanterie divisions, ja? So it turned out we don't have enough equipment, so you added some factories... And 5 years later, here we are ha ha.
- Hilarious. Well at least we can make more infantry divisions.
- Ha ha meine Führer, you are so funny. That Chaplin doesn't even compare ha ha. Nein, we don't have enough support equipment.
- How is this possible?! Every time I asked, you said we were making surplus!
- Yes, but we were training divisions, and they get equipment at start of training, so it kind of gets lost when we calculate average. But it is visible in total amount, you just have to memorize the number when you last checked. And to make your life even easier, down this hallway every room has a nice graph so you don't have to remember. Look how many rooms just for you. And people inside are going to be so happy when you visit every single one of those rooms...
- Ok forget it.
- Or you could just calculate it, it's really simple. You multiply the amount of equipment by the number of divisions in training, then average it over training time. Piece of sachertorte.
- Well, wouldn't it be easier to just subtract that number from balance? And also, don't we have a department for statistics and calculations? I even remember their motto: DAS COMPUTERMASCHINE is to COMPUTE, FÜHRER is to FÜHR.
- Yes, Führer, you should of course be doing all the führing. But Heinz from volkstatistics said he doesn't know your plans, therefore both computing and führing should be done by you. He also said this is much better, because of Führer error correction protocol - whatever number Führer gets is the right number, ja? Heinz is also very funny, but not as funny as you.
- So they are completely useless?
- Nein, meine Führer. You see, Churchill also has to do this, and Heinz calculated you're 7,81% better at it due to german efficiency. We can't possibly loose with that advantage. And it's good for morale.
- Not mine that's for sure. So then - eine volk, eine führer, eine spreadsheet?
- Ha ha yes, meine Führer, excellent - we are like a sheet that spreads. We will cover all of Europe under our sheet. I can't wait to tell Heinz this one.
- Ok, so back to Barbarossa - can we sustain 100 days of average attrition due to fighting and maneuver?
- Well, for trucks you don't have to worry. We have a lot of them. A LOT. We even stopped building housing, people now live in trucks, that's how many we have. And Heinz calculated that if we start all of them at once, we would melt polar icecaps immediately. That would show those Brits - if that is not wunderwaffen I don't know what is. The only problem is there is not enough oil in the world for that, but we're working on it.
- So can we manage it or not?
- It is hard to give an exact answer. And we want to be exact - that's what logistics is all about. Heinz calculated and he thinks he'll have an exact number when we get to 20 kilometres from Moscow. This is good, ja? Or if we run out of equipment, whichever happens sooner.
(Führer commits suicide)
How else to keep the consumers sated, management happy, and push endless promise of wealth? XDequivalent of a make-work project.....