Cultures of the Finno-Ugric peoples near Novgorod

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Nykyus

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I propose to create Finno-Ugric principalities near Novgorod. These nations are very ancient. It will not be a big mistake to introduce them also into the game Imperator

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Izhora, Vepsians, Votes - Indigenous peoples of the Leningrad region

It is considered that the wet marshy lands on which our city St. Petersburg is located were almost unsuitable for life. However, this is not entirely true, or rather, not at all. Since ancient times these territories were inhabited mainly by Finno-Ugric peoples: Izhora, Chud, Votes. But, unfortunately, today these ethnic groups have assimilated and mixed with the Russians, who came to these lands long before the construction of the northern palmyra began. According to the census of 1989, only 62 people remained, the Izhorians numbered 449 people. Veps (Chud) managed to preserve their cultural identity - 12,501 people, and according to the census, half of them lived in the Leningrad Region, and half - in Kemerovo. The territory of the modern Leningrad region on both banks of the Neva and the regions of the western Ladoga area in pre-Petrine times had a proud name - Ingermanland or Izhora.

Today, there are three versions of the origin of the word "Ingermanlandia". According to the interpretation of the Finno-Ugric scholars, he has the Finnish root “inkeri maa”, which means “beautiful land”. Other researchers argue that the word comes from the name of the river Izhora, on the banks of which this nation lived. In the annals of the times of Rurikovich it is said: “Where then give birth to her son Ingor, and let her have a hail beside the sea with Izharo in Vienna.” Third sources say about Yaroslav the Wise's wife, Anna, whose first name is Ingigerd.
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Be that as it may, all versions agree that in the first millennium of our era Izhoryans left the group of Karelian nationalities and belong to the Finno-Ugrians. The Izorians themselves called karyalayset, inkerikot, ingeroyset. The first written records of this tribe were found in the bull of Pope Alexander III to the Uppsala Bishop Stephen (approximately 1164), prohibiting the sale of weapons to the warlike pagan Sami, Vod, Karelian and Ingram tribes. In those days, the Izhors were already closely associated with the East Slavic tribes and were part of the Novgorod Republic. Our ancestors called all ethnic groups that inhabited the Karelian Peninsula, “Chudya” and did not single out the Izhora people particularly. But when the Karelians and the Izhora invaded Russian territories in the 13th century, the chronicles contain references to this tribe, which characterize it as a clever and cunning people. After the fall of the Novgorod principality since the creation of the Russian state, the Izhors actively assimilated with the Russian population, adopting Orthodoxy. In troubled times, Ingermanlandia became a province of Sweden in 1617 and Izhorians began to assimilate with the Finns, among whom were widely spread Protestant movements in Christianity. Their descendants, having adopted Lutheranism, began to be called "Inkeri" and received their branch of cultural development. Until our times, the Izhoryans and the Inkeri have avoided each other because of contradictions in religious concessions.

What did the Izhors do?
Irrespective of their religious preferences, the Izhors were mainly farmers - they grew rye, cabbage, barley, turnips, and oats, from the 19th century. potatoes, engaged in animal husbandry. Characteristically, cattle were driven into collective herds, which were grazed by hired shepherds. Izhora earned fishing, especially in the winter, ice fishing smelt, sprat, herring. And not only men but also women took part in this. Fishing could last more than one day, it was necessary to go far deep into the Gulf of Finland, so special wooden “booths” were built for overnight stays. In addition to fishing, the Izhoryans were engaged in out-harvesting, often they could be found among Petersburg drivers, factory workers or hired workers in rich peasant farms. But the most common among Izhors was hiring as shepherds (Soykol shepherds). The elements of the Izhora life. The Izhorians built their homes from logs, who are richer, from stone. The houses in the settlements stood in the neighborhood of the Russian huts, the Vods, the Ingrian Finns. Izhora mistresses were famous for their jelly, cottage cheese and yogurt, meat pies. But the main drink for Izhora was beer. Up to now, the traditions of žoros in men's clothes have not been preserved, it is almost the same as the Russian. But the women's outfit, on the contrary, was quite different from the sarafans inherent in the Slavs. Women's shirt (ryatsinya) had a characteristic cut and a buckle - fibula, on the shirt they wore two panels on the straps, which were thrown over the shoulders. On the left shoulder they wore a striped one, decorated on the edge with multi-colored stripes of fabric, a horsetail, he covered the right side. Aanua was passed through the right shoulder - this cloth was either blue or black and covered the left side. Over all this, izhorki wore a richly beaded silk or wool apron (polle). Sometimes they wore skirts (hurstut), which did not have side seams.
The elements of the Izhora life. The Izhorians built their homes from logs, who are richer, from stone. The houses in the settlements stood in the neighborhood of the Russian huts, the Vods, the Ingrian Finns. Izhora mistresses were famous for their jelly, cottage cheese and yogurt, meat pies. But the main drink for Izhora was beer. Up to now, the traditions of žoros in men's clothes have not been preserved, it is almost the same as the Russian. But the women's outfit, on the contrary, was quite different from the sarafans inherent in the Slavs. Women's shirt (ryatsinya) had a characteristic cut and a buckle - fibula, on the shirt they wore two panels on the straps, which were thrown over the shoulders. On the left shoulder they wore a striped one, decorated on the edge with multi-colored stripes of fabric, a horsetail, he covered the right side. Aanua was passed through the right shoulder - this cloth was either blue or black and covered the left side. Over all this, izhorki wore a richly beaded silk or wool apron (polle). Sometimes they wore skirts (hurstut), which did not have side seams.
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The outfit was completed with a hat in the form of a shawl covering the head (sapano). The Izhora legs were wrapped in red-colored cloth windings (rivat), pistons were worn, which were made of a single piece of unstitched rawhide or sewn streets. Traditions of Izhora Before the adoption of Christianity, the Izhora tribe worshiped stones and trees, communicated with spirits with the help of priests - arbui. Pagan roots had a custom on Egoryev's day (old style on April 23) to go around cattle yards with a knife in his teeth. And this day was considered to be a woman’s, married women gathered in one of the courtyards for a joint meal, the scrambled eggs were an obligatory attribute of it. The celebration of the day of Ivanovo on June 24 was almost the same as Russian traditions: the same bonfires, celebrations and fortune telling On Petrov's Day (old style June 29), the Izhora went to the groves sacred to them and left edible sacrifices to the spirits of the forest there. Interesting wedding traditions Izhor. Matchmaking was divided into three stages: on the first visit, the matchmaker visited the bride’s house and offered marriage, he received an answer only on the second visit, while a pledge exchange ceremony was performed, the betrothal could occur only during the third visit. At the same time, both during the second and during the third visit, all those who participated in matchmaking were obliged to smoke tobacco. On the eve of the wedding, the bride and girlfriends performed wedding lamentations. Both the groom and the bride performed certain rituals in the bath. After the wedding, the newlyweds went home to their parents, where everyone and their guests celebrated this event, and no one ate the wedding loaf (kuppeleilya). And the bridegroom could take the bride to her house only the next day, while the bride exchanged gifts from the bridegroom's relatives. The burial rites of Izhora also had archaic signs: the dead were buried not in cemeteries, but in sacred groves. Wool reins, a knife and food were put into the grave. The burial rite was accompanied by the performance of the lamentations that were sung by professional placues. The complete Russification of this nation began in the time of Peter the Great after the construction of St. Petersburg. And at the end of the XVIIIth, the Izhora settlements were already difficult to distinguish from the Russians. In the thirties of the last century, this ethnic group was forcibly settled and practically lost its national identity.


The first documentary references to the Vod people, like the Izhora, who lived in Ingermanland along the shores of Lake Peipsi, the Narova River, and on the Izhora Plateau belong to the Novgorod chronicles of Yaroslav the Wise. The Charter of the Mostyh of 1069 speaks of leaders who, in order not to pay tribute to the principality, together with the Polovtsi, attacked Novgorod and lost the battle.

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They themselves called themselves Vadjalayn, Vyaddya. Archaeological finds dating back to IV - VII centuries. They say that the Vod people came to these lands from the northern regions of Estonia and are ethnically related to Western Estonian tribes. In the Novgorod principality, Vod lived in a separate administrative unit — Vodskaya Pyatina; it was there that archaeologists discovered birch bark letters written in Cyrillic in Karelian language, akin to vozhanam. The Vod tribe took part in the wars against the Swedes and the German Crusaders, founding the fortress city of Yam-Yamburg (Kingisepp). Having been under the Swedes in troubled times, the Vod were again in Russia in 1703. After the conquest of these lands by Peter I, part of the vozhan was forcibly relocated to Kazan, and the vacant places were settled by Russians. Since then, the active assimilation of this nation with the Eastern Slavs began. Researchers of the Middle Ages note that male wrestlers were distinguished by their ability and skill, sharp, quick mind, courage, and dexterity in a swear. And women are described as cheerful, tall, light-brown beauties, dressed in clothes embroidered with beads and bells. They also note the ability of the leader to work hard and achieve wealth. Until 1534, pagan shrines remained in the Voda villages, but by decree of Tsar Ivan Vasilyevich, the archbishop Makari of Novgorod fought fiercely with them. As a result, over time, the Vod became completely Orthodox, and, in spite of the close proximity to the Protestants, the Finns and the Inkeris, marriages with the Gentiles were strictly suppressed.
Wedding traditions of the Votes
When reaching the age of 15, a young man Vod could take a 14-year-old girlfriend in marriage. The vozhanin first informed the priest about his desire to marry in order to determine the degree of kinship with his future wife and to prevent incest. Having received a positive response from the priest, the young man made an offer to the girl.
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The priest conducted a secret engagement ceremony and only after that the bride's parents found out about the upcoming wedding. With this news, the bride's mother raised a scream to the whole house, grabbed her daughter by the hair and did not let go until the young man cut the girl's braid. The hair was solemnly handed over to the bridegroom with the words: "Take the braid with your head, be her master, and she be your slave." Further, the wedding ceremony did not differ from the already familiar to us, the Orthodox. But when she arrived at her husband's house, the bride fell into the hands of unmarried relatives of the groom. They took the bride to the hut, put it to the right of the door, and they themselves were located to the left. In this case, the bride had to bow to them until the evening. And when the unfortunate bride fell from fatigue, she was laid on the bed. The groom, in order to buy the bed with the bride, had to give the girls rich gifts. Wedding celebrations and festivities lasted 2 days. Unfortunately, like Izhora, vozhane over time also lost their ethnic identity, dissolved in Russian culture. In their ancient dialect there is no word “no”, and they also had a saying “Earth will be, trees will be, but there will be no leader”. But nowadays, 72 Votes live in 2 villages of the Kingisepp District of Lusatia and Krakol, who are trying to revive the language and the ancient culture of their people. The folklore singing festival of Votes is held annually in Lusatik.


The story tells us about one more almost lost people - Vepsa, which is also known as chud, Vepsa, and blessed; draft, meydankelhiyzhed, tyamykelhiyzhed, narodnikad, chuharid, eudikee, people, vepsline. The area of its historical residence is Karelia - Prionezhsky district, districts of Leningrad, Kemerovo and Vologda regions. The Vepsa belong to the White Sea-Baltic race, and by language they belong to the Finno-Ugrians. The writing of this nationality has a Latin basis.
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The first archaeological artifacts related to this tribe were found in Vepsic burial grounds and date back to the second half of the first millennium of our era. The earliest written references to Vepsa are found in treatises of the 6th century. Gothic chronicler of Jordan, in which the description of the tribe "Vas." In the X century. Arab Ibn Fadlan wrote about the people "Visu", and in the Habsburg chronicles of Adam of Bremen mentions "Vespe". Russian chroniclers wrote about the people "Ves", apparently meaning the lands inhabited by different ethnic groups. Modern archaeologists and historians believe that the Vepsians come from the southeastern Baltic. In the first millennium, they came to the land between the lakes - Ladoga, White and Onega. But since the end of the first millennium, these territories are beginning to be actively explored by the Russians, so the integration of the Veps into the old Russian culture and state begins. For 4 centuries, the Vepsians settled along the Onega Isthmus and the northern coast of the Svir River, mingling with the Karelians there, formed an ethnic group called people and livviki. Having mastered the Northern Dvina basin, the Vepps assimilated with the Komi and Slavs. What did the Vepsa do from time immemorial? Vepsians are famous for their skilful wood carving, birch bark weaving, embroidery and pottery. Since industrial production was never developed on the land of the Veps, this led to a significant outflow of population to other more developed regions. Elements of Vepsian life Traditional national clothes of the Chud have much in common with the clothes of the Slavs of the northern part of Russia. But, all the same it is distinguished by its characteristic features. Men's pants had a narrow course, and the shirts were sewn from unpainted fabric, which was decorated with embroidery on the collar, hem and sleeves. Women's attire had two options: the first was based on a sundress, the second was a skirt. Blue shestiklinny sundress sewn from homespun canvas. Under it they wore a long shirt with shoulder inserts, decorated on the hem, collar, sleeves and panels with rich ornamentation - embroidery, and a black apron over the sarafan. Skirts were sewn from homespun canvas or wool. They wore it with a shirt. In the festive version of the skirt, they wore a jacket made of monochrome purchased fabric (kazakk). As a headdress, married women preferred a collection and a warrior. They wore canvas Vepsa or cloth kaftans, sheepskin coats. Fur coats had straight cut and sewed without collars. Outerwear tied with a belt. At the feet of the Veps, as a rule, there were bast sandals and feet with a high (kotad, kotikod) and a low (stupnid) bootleg. For winter, boots or boots were worn.
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The main diet of the Vepsa included rye bread (leib), various uncooked shortbread (iupnik, kosґak, testdnik), round open pies stuffed with a mixture of eggs and semolina (levaљ), wickets, scissors. Especially popular were the barley dough with barley and cream filling (skancad), which was taken to eat with meat. Vepsians were also famous for their oatmeal pancakes filled with waves, cottage cheese or lingonberries. On pea flour, which was whipped with snow, Vepsa baked fritters and called them snowflakes (luminikad). Vepsian traditions The Vepsians adopted Orthodoxy at the same time as vozhane and Izhora. Therefore, they observe the holidays adopted in Orthodox Christianity. Wedding ceremonies are no different from Russian. The funeral tradition of the Vepsa, on the contrary, has cardinal differences. They have fun to celebrate funeral funerals, during which, under the will of the deceased, his favorite songs are played, they play his instruments. During the funeral procession, it is customary to give cake on a towel (if a man is buried) or on a scarf (if a woman is buried) to the first person to meet on the road to the cemetery. They put a cross on the grave after 40 days, and before that there was a stick there. In some villages, it is customary to cover the grave with a wide board. Juniper trees are planted on children's graves instead of crosses. This nation has not lost its pagan origins. To this day, they worship the spirits of juniper, spruce, alder and rowan. Grandmothers tell their grandchildren stories and tales about a snipe, a bear, a swallow, a hawk, a pike, and a snake giving happiness (ozamadooћet). There are myths about the house, shed, yard, volyan, forest, bathhouse, earthen host. Moreover, these spirits act as head of the family, who has a wife and children. These few people were able to preserve their cultural identity. Since the 80s of the twentieth century, Veps communities have emerged, which are trying to revive Veps alphabet, their native language and traditions inherent to Veps. Is it not surprising that such different peoples lived on such a relatively small territory?
 
Upvote 0
Very educational!

It also looks like a very weak proposal, since there is very little specific notice of the number, extent of control, diplomatic embedding or government form of these people.
They can choose 3 ways of development:
1) Catholic way-integration into the Hanseatic League, or as an ally of Sweden,
2) Pagan way-keep the ancient faith and win Novgorod from the Slavs, unrealistically difficult,
3) Orthodox way-integration into the Novgorod system, which was characterized by a great democracy
 
First of all, these cultures would be one province cultures so Paradox will not add them. These tribes had long been under the control of Novgorod and I don't think that they were autonomous enough to be their own tags in 1444, unless you have additional resources.
 
While reviving these duchies may be far-fetched, I would at least point out Ingermanland should be Karelian in 1444 and arguably Ladoga province as well. Kargopol and Onega should also still be Vespsian/Karelian as well from what I understand.

EDIT: upon going over my sources I rescind my previous suggestion about the culture of Ladoga, Kargopol and Onega!
 
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I am not sure if these people were relevant by 1444... Arkhangelsk Oblast was settled by Novgorod well before 1444, and I have seen no proof that these peoples formed any sort of a relevant majority in the region by 1444. They very certainly existed, as Muscovy deported some of them after conquest, but it's doubtful that they would still be the regional majority after centuries of being ruled by Novgorod.
 
I am not sure if these people were relevant by 1444... Arkhangelsk Oblast was settled by Novgorod well before 1444, and I have seen no proof that these peoples formed any sort of a relevant majority in the region by 1444. They very certainly existed, as Muscovy deported some of them after conquest, but it's doubtful that they would still be the regional majority after centuries of being ruled by Novgorod.

You are infact, correct, it looks like I messed up my dates! That's my fault for posting very late! I would now say upon actually reading the source material properly that Kargopol, Onega and Ladoga were both by the mid-15th century primarily inhabited by Novgorodian Pomors, beginning in the 12th century in some places around lake Ladoga and by the end of the 14th century around lake Onega. I do believe though that Ingrians still were the majority in Ingermanland though.
 
So they were the majority in 1703. It was then that the pagan shrine was destroyed.

The prophecies of the elders
In those distant times, about where the very center of modern St. Petersburg is now, between Troitskaya Square and the building of the Nakhimov School, in the beginning of the 18th century there existed an ancient pagan temple. Its main attraction and value for the Chukhonians was the sacred pine, whimsically twisted by the Baltic winds.

According to it, the priests accurately predicted future floods and even could indicate the level of rising water: during the Volkhov Mysteries at this height, the “lights of Saint Elmo” appeared on the gnarled branches of the tree, which invariably caused the mystical trembling of the audience.

Naturally, the Chukhon elders did not have to like the neighborhood of a restless white king, who had a grandiose construction on the banks of the Neva.

Therefore, the Magi first, very carefully, and then more boldly and louder began to prophesy about strange and terrible misfortunes, inevitably awaiting in the future the city built at the behest of the king and all its inhabitants. They naively hoped that the king would hear them and, having learned the whole bitter truth about the future, would come to his senses and abandon his dangerous venture. Yes, Peter I heard them, but the Magi miscalculated with regard to further.

The gloomy prophecies of the Chukhon elders, which were transmitted by word of mouth and in earnest, agitated the people, along with extremely changeable military happiness in endless battles with the Swedes, did not improve the royal mood.

Without delaying the case indefinitely, the king decided to put an end to the “Chukhon miracles” once and for all. Blushing from the strain and swearing through his teeth, Peter himself cut down the old sacred pine and ordered it to be sent for firewood to the soldiers' kitchens. And to the priests, so that they no longer chatted about something without falling, he ordered them to chop off their heads.

Before execution, the Chukhon elders, whose names history did not preserve, made the last prophecies: each of the three pagan priests gave his own forecast of the development of events in the distant future. Moreover, they were all inextricably linked with the sanctuary ruined by the king and the place of their cruel execution.

The first of the Magi murmured spells and, kneeling before the chopping block, protested:
- The new city laid by the tsar will stand for exactly three hundred years - as much as the time allowed for its descendants to rule. And then the city on the Neva to be empty!

In fact, the priest “released” the city founded by Peter I in 1703 on the Neva River as old as the rule of the Romanov dynasty. This is a well-known prediction that has many different interpretations. According to one of them, the city will drown, the whole will go under water during an unusually heavy flood. According to others, the population will die out from terrible diseases, hunger and the like.

It must be admitted that the terrible prophecy of the ancient Chukhon magician was almost nearly fulfilled on the terrible days of the blockade during the Patriotic War, but then there were still 60 years until the 300th anniversary of the city.

The second Chukhonian elder predicted, before he was deprived of his head:
- All the Finno-Ugric peoples living on the territory of Russia will unite in Kootimaa, and then the inevitable end will come to the rule of the white kings!

“Kootimaa” - “the common home of the Finns” - is the name of a kind of almost mythical unity of all the Finno-Ugric peoples inhabiting the immense Russia. This prophecy can be understood not only as an indication of the inevitable fall of autocracy in Russia, but also as a prediction of the inevitable end of the primacy of the representatives of the Slavic race.
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The third priest before his death predicted, shouting loudly into the gray low sky:
- The city of Peter will disappear from the face of the earth when the “three kings from the east” are buried in it!

The Tsar's order was executed strictly: the Chukhon priests-prophets were beheaded. But the execution took place at the confluence of the people, and the last words of the Chukhon elders were heard by many. Endless terrible floods that inflicted enormous damage on the city and claimed many lives, according to many people of various ranks, confirmed the prophecies made by Chukhon elders before the cruel execution, and their prophetic words were passed down from generation to generation.

Prophecies of the elders. Sword of Damocles
One should not think that the members of the royal family did not remember the predictions of the ancient Chukhon priests. At the time of Peter the Great, there was already a sufficiently developed political investigation by the emperor personally, and any such “prophecies” were thoroughly documented. As it is known from historical sources, Pyotr Alekseevich Romanov himself, who cruelly dealt with the magicians, was nevertheless very much afraid of “Chukhon magic”, especially in the last years of his life.

After the accusation of treason, the deprivation of the heritage and the execution of the son of the king, as well as the death of Peter I in the new capital of the empire, St. Petersburg, in the royal tomb

- Peter and Paul Cathedral - two Russian leaders or tsars, “born in the east”, were already buried: Emperor Peter himself and his son, who were born in Moscow, that is, east of the city on the Neva.
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Some researchers believe: it is this circumstance that explains the fact that the most terrible rebel Yemelyan Pugachev, who raised the peasant uprising on the outskirts of the empire in 1773-1774 and declared himself Tsar Peter III, was not taken to St. Petersburg after capture and capture.

This is the most important public criminal! The investigation was carried out in Moscow and, at the end of the inquiry, was executed there, on Bolotnaya Square.

Apparently, the ranks of the secret office of common sense judged as follows: what if, more than aspirations, Pugachev would be the third “leader-king” born in the east ?! Even if self-styled, but still? After all, this position in the predictions was not specified!

Naturally, in such a situation, Catherine II did not want to risk it — too much! - do not accidentally cause a giant cataclysm predicted by Chukhon elders.

But the Decembrists who had raised the uprising on Senatskaya Square, the stern Nicholas I did not consider the leaders, so he hung them up without fear and buried them around North Palmyra. Later, the authorities were equally scornful of all sorts of "bombers" and revolutionaries. In general, until the fall of the Romanov dynasty in 1917 in St. Petersburg, not one of the leaders or kings born “in the east” was buried. And all the autocrats were born in the new capital. So the third prophecy did not materialize. At least so far.
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Caution of the Atheists
As it turned out lately, when documents were opened to many documents previously hidden in secret archives, the Bolshevik leaders who took power in October 1917 knew about the prophecies of the Chukhon elders. These prophecies attracted particular attention from the leaders of the "armed party detachment" - the Cheka-GPU-NKVD.

Some independent political experts who study the national issue in Russia believe that Lenin, seriously fearing a cataclysm in Petrograd and the creation of the notorious Kootima, the “common Finnish house,” very quickly agreed to give independence to Finland. Dzerzhinsky informed him about the prophecies. At the same time, it was decided to create a "Praetorian Guard" of the Bolsheviks - red Latvian riflemen - as opposed to the possible unification of the Finno-Ugric nationalities under the flag of counterrevolution.

The fate of most of these "praetorians" was unenviable: they were destroyed by their own comrades, and perhaps the same ancient predictions played a fatal role here.

The most curious thing is that the influence of the predictions of the Chukhon Magi and on the decision to build the mausoleum VI. Ulyanova-Lenin in Moscow on Red Square and embalming the body of the “leader of the world proletariat”.

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After all, Vladimir Ilyich could well become the third "leader-king", born in the east and buried in St. Petersburg, even if renamed Leningrad.

It is known that Comrade Stalin was personally involved in national policy issues in the USSR, whose love for the special services was well known to all colleagues. Constantly taking into account personal interests in the struggle for undivided power, the “father of nations” agreed to grant autonomy to the peoples of Komi, Chuvashia, Mordovia, Mari El and Udmurtia.

At the same time, having carefully studied the materials provided by the Chekists, the leader ordered to immediately find and eliminate all those who were still left, secret and obvious Chukhon elders. The order of the secretary general was carried out quickly and clearly, “to be faithful” by eliminating a couple of hundred suspects. So it was finally done with the Magi.

On the eve of the entry of Soviet troops into the Baltic States and the imminent conflict with Finland, people of the Finno-Ugric nationalities were evicted from the Leningrad Region in large numbers - the “Kotyma” of the NKVD was useless!

Thus, in the middle of Russia, entire settlements of Karelians appeared, which have never returned to their former places of residence.
Petersburg Chukhon elders prophesied death after 300 years


It is difficult to say what will happen next, but guessing is a thankless task. Will the predictions of the beheaded Peter I of the Chukhon elders ever come true? Who knows ... In any case, the magnificent celebration of the 300th anniversary of St. Petersburg has already safely left behind.
 
You are deeply mistaken. The policy of Novgorod was completely different, unlike Moscow. It's like comparing heaven and earth. Under Novgorod, the genocide of the surrounding nations was not carried out, their lands were not settled by the Slavs, they did not touch their faith
 
While reviving these duchies may be far-fetched, I would at least point out Ingermanland should be Karelian in 1444 and arguably Ladoga province as well. Kargopol and Onega should also still be Vespsian/Karelian as well from what I understand.

EDIT: upon going over my sources I rescind my previous suggestion about the culture of Ladoga, Kargopol and Onega!

While I agree that Ingermanland should have Uralic culture in 1444 to represent the majority presence of Votes and Ingrians in the region, the province culture could be Estonian instead of Karelian: the Votes were culturally closer to Estonians and Livs than Karelians or Ingrians, and the culture of the Votes and Ingrians are represented in CK2 as Estonian, so I think it'd be suitable enough to have Ingermanland as Estonian culture province in 1444.

Of course, there's a case for Ingermanland having Karelian culture: Karelian culture in-game might be meant to represent all Balto-Finnic cultures in Russia, rather than just Karelian and Ingrian. In addition, since Karelian culture is in East Slavic culture group, Ingermanland's culture is less likely to be assimilated by the two countries most likely to own the province: Novgorod and Muscovy. In addition, having the province as Karelian would mean that accepting the culture of Ingermanland wouldn't require the province owner to conquer Estonia. Considering all this, having the province as Karelian would probably work better in terms of gameplay, while having the province as Estonian would be more accurate in terms of real-life cultural affinity.

You are infact, correct, it looks like I messed up my dates! That's my fault for posting very late! I would now say upon actually reading the source material properly that Kargopol, Onega and Ladoga were both by the mid-15th century primarily inhabited by Novgorodian Pomors, beginning in the 12th century in some places around lake Ladoga and by the end of the 14th century around lake Onega. I do believe though that Ingrians still were the majority in Ingermanland though.

Well, yeah: the Finno-Ugric tribes of modern Arkhangelsk Oblast, such as Zavolochian Chudes/Dvinans, Toimans, Surans, Pinegans, Vagans, and Belozertsii all assimilated very thoroughly to the Russian culture introduced by Novgorodian colonists. However, unlike in Muscovy/Russia where the assimilation of the Uralic tribes was marked by violence and conquest, the relations between the Novgorodians and Uralic tribes was marked with trade, co-existence and mutual co-operation, which might've actually hastened their assimilation to the dominant Russian culture. Of course, that is to say that there wasn't opposition against Novgorodian rule: there are quite a few references to the Uralic tribes in Zavolochye revolting against attempts to convert the region to Orthodox faith.

That said, sources do refer to Vagans and Dvinans participating in the Russo-Swedish War of 1495 and capturing countless prisoners from around the modern-day Kainuu province of Finland, though the sources do not indicate if these are Russian or Finno-Ugric raiders. As such, while it is possible that in 1444 the Uralic tribes still constituted majority in parts of modern Arkhangelsk Oblast, we have no way of knowing for sure due to the scarcity of sources about the Uralic tribes in Northern Russia to begin with: as such, representing the region as having Novgorodian culture seems appropriate.
 
While I agree that Ingermanland should have Uralic culture in 1444 to represent the majority presence of Votes and Ingrians in the region, the province culture could be Estonian instead of Karelian: the Votes were culturally closer to Estonians and Livs than Karelians or Ingrians, and the culture of the Votes and Ingrians are represented in CK2 as Estonian, so I think it'd be suitable enough to have Ingermanland as Estonian culture province in 1444.

Of course, there's a case for Ingermanland having Karelian culture: Karelian culture in-game might be meant to represent all Balto-Finnic cultures in Russia, rather than just Karelian and Ingrian. In addition, since Karelian culture is in East Slavic culture group, Ingermanland's culture is less likely to be assimilated by the two countries most likely to own the province: Novgorod and Muscovy. In addition, having the province as Karelian would mean that accepting the culture of Ingermanland wouldn't require the province owner to conquer Estonia. Considering all this, having the province as Karelian would probably work better in terms of gameplay, while having the province as Estonian would be more accurate in terms of real-life cultural affinity.



Well, yeah: the Finno-Ugric tribes of modern Arkhangelsk Oblast, such as Zavolochian Chudes/Dvinans, Toimans, Surans, Pinegans, Vagans, and Belozertsii all assimilated very thoroughly to the Russian culture introduced by Novgorodian colonists. However, unlike in Muscovy/Russia where the assimilation of the Uralic tribes was marked by violence and conquest, the relations between the Novgorodians and Uralic tribes was marked with trade, co-existence and mutual co-operation, which might've actually hastened their assimilation to the dominant Russian culture. Of course, that is to say that there wasn't opposition against Novgorodian rule: there are quite a few references to the Uralic tribes in Zavolochye revolting against attempts to convert the region to Orthodox faith.

That said, sources do refer to Vagans and Dvinans participating in the Russo-Swedish War of 1495 and capturing countless prisoners from around the modern-day Kainuu province of Finland, though the sources do not indicate if these are Russian or Finno-Ugric raiders. As such, while it is possible that in 1444 the Uralic tribes still constituted majority in parts of modern Arkhangelsk Oblast, we have no way of knowing for sure due to the scarcity of sources about the Uralic tribes in Northern Russia to begin with: as such, representing the region as having Novgorodian culture seems appropriate.

I agree Vod was closer to Estonians, and Izhora closer to Karelians.

From Wikipedia: the beginning of the formation of Izhora as a separate ethnic group, researchers refer to the turn of the I-II millennia of our era, when one of the Korela branches migrated from the east to the basin of the Izhora River. Later, the Izhora slowly moved west along the southern coast of the Gulf of Finland, partially assimilating the local Vod population.

That is, initially the entire region, even before the arrival of the Slavs from the Danube, was originally Vodic, akin to Estonians.

They write that Novgorod did not interfere in the affairs of the vassals, because they needed a strong border barrier from the Teutons, the Swedes and Em (Finnish tribe). They also write that at the time of Sweden’s conquest in the 16th century, the population consisted of 75 percent of the Finno-Ugric peoples.
 
Novgorodian culture is sufficient to represent the minor Finno-Ugric populations as a part of Novgorodian culture.
We need to keep in mind that it boils down not only to a language or blood, but also an identity as such. For Novgorodians and local Finno-Ugric ethnicities it was shared one as they both were historically intertwined.
This said, there is a lot of flavour that can be added and expanded for them and Novgorod.

And I agree that Karelians should receive Ingermaland.
 
Here I will give the translation of chapter 3 from the book "The Heart of Parma". This is an art book devoted to the struggle of the head of the Ugric principality Pelym, Asyka, against Muscovy Ivan III. There is a fundamental difference between Novgorod and Muscovy.

“The Novgorod russians are our old enemies,” said Asyka. “And longtime enemies are almost friends.” Like all others, they needed our wealth. They honestly paid for these riches with blood and left. But Muscovites, in addition to our treasures, also need our entire land. They send here their plowmen with their wives and children, so that they, with their work and blood, take their roots into our land. If they manage to do this, it will be impossible to uproot them from here, because the earth is our stone, and their roots will circle around the stones.

Kan tamga

The two high idols - the bogatyrs Igrammshor and Shavelshor - held a heavy beam of the gate leading to the limits of Dead Parma. Behind the gate was the wall of a dead forest. Probably the same forests grow on the damned islands of Petit-Ur in the icy midnight ocean, along which the souls of traitors wander in eternal darkness, moaning. Pam felt that there was nothing and no one in these dried and petrified trunks - neither spirits, nor cool, nor demons. Is that the evil Mansiysk witch Tanvarpekva looked here, but immediately raced on his gray-haired cannibal Rohe. “Holatur” is the name of the Mansi Dead Parma, ”the shaman recalled.

- Why do you need Kanskaya Tamga, prince? - He asked, first walking along the blackening path in the moss.

- It is time for war.

- Do you want to drive out the Rus? What do they bother you?

“You yourself know the answer, old man.”

With the tip of the staff, the shaman pushed a white branch with seven crooked fingers out of the way.

“Rus to Rus is different,” he said. - Novgorodians - yes, these are wolves, tearing live meat. But Muscovites come to us in peace. They build their villages here, raise their children and, like us, suffer oppression from their kan. But the Russian Kan is not greedy. In Kazan we pay haraj in three tangi with a bow, and the yasak Russ is four times less - only two sables. Even the meanest hunter will be able to get two sables in a year in order to pay off the Kana Rus.

- Why do we have to buy off strangers on our land?

- It is better to pay off with sables than with blood.

Thin and tall fir-trees with rare boughs and bare tops stuck up along the slope thickly, like spears of hont, stuck into the funerary mound of his hontuya. In the uneven placer of stars above Dead Parma, there were gaping holes, as if some stars had fallen and fell down like ripe cedar cones. If the Belt Mountains are indeed the giant Kam, who fell asleep after his exploit, then the Dead Parma is his quiver. Spring rains and autumn storms broke dead trees, but they did not fall, but caught on fellows and hung in height.

This stopped movement further deadened the already terrible forest. In some places among the trunks stuck vertically dug stairs, so that the gods could descend on them to the ground to the people. But it seemed to the pamu that these ladders brought underground humanity-sirtea from the depths: it is obvious that it became so terrible for them to live in a numbed grief that they ran from the depths to the sky.

Pam turned onto a side path bypassing the mountain where the sacred spruce grew - the only living tree on Dead Parma.

“The Novgorod rusians are our old enemies,” said Asyka. “And longtime enemies are almost friends.” Like all others, they needed our wealth. They honestly paid for these riches with blood and left. But Muscovites, in addition to our treasures, also need our entire land. They send here their plowmen with their wives and children, so that they, with their work and blood, take their roots to our land. If they manage to do this, it will be impossible to uproot them from here, because the earth is our stone, and their roots will circle around the stones.

“Well,” pam replied, “if they want so, then let them pay with blood, take root and live.” Our ancestors did the same.

“No, you don't understand me, old man,” said the prince, annoyed. - You can put up with the raids of enemies, but you can not put up with their gods. The enemies bring their swords to us, and the Muscovites will bring their god to us. We can fight off swords, and man can never cope with gods. If we submit to the god of the Muscovites, then we will have no native names, no songs, no memory — nothing.

The shaman was deep in thought. Spruce spears were gradually replaced by skeletons of birch, cedar, pine, larch - the trail led to the ancient part of the sanctuary on the slope under which the abandoned mound sank in the swamp. Gaps appeared on which lay half-rotten idols of the legendary people of Velmot Vor, who had left the earth more than a thousand years ago. This people worshiped the Khakan and Hontui gods - terrible, beast-like monsters with their beaks, snouts, claws, and mouths blackened by sacrificial blood.

“Why do you think that the God of the Muscovites will destroy our peoples?” - with difficulty stepping over the idol, asked pam.

- You better understand the affairs of the gods ... Tell me yourself: what are the gods?
- Gods? .. - Stopping to take a breath, pam looked at the huge naked moon, at the Star Worg, which plowed the sky. - It is difficult for me to answer in such a way that it becomes clear to you, a warrior ... For each of our people there are sacred lips from which the words of eternity reach us. Parma is dead here in Perm. Purramonitor in zyryan. Yalping you Mansi. Longtyugan from the Khanty. Hebidia-Padara from the Nenets ... The Solar Virgin - Zarin is sacred for all of us, Myadpuhotsya, Vut-Imi, Egiboba, and in your opinion Sorni-Nai. With her mouth speaks Vagirioma. But, waiting for an answer from these lips, we ask not a mountain, not an ancestor, not a god, not an idol. We ask something more, which is both a mountain, and an ancestor, and a god, and an idol ... All that is is one and the same, all this is one chain, and we see only its links. Your shamans call the link between the links of this chain "lyakhal" - "message." Destiny is the message of the earth, gods lead the destinies, people lead the gods, the earth leads the people ... You ask me as if it is possible to give a final, last answer or, on the contrary, as if there is the first, initial point from which we could true measure the truth in our lives ...

“Not very clear, although I understand you, old man,” the Khakan nodded. “But if you compare the world with a chain bound in a ring, then I will say this.” Replacing our god with a stranger, we break this chain, and the world collapses.

They approached the high idol of Torum. The progenitor was depicted sitting, and on his lap rested a bowl with coins mixed with the earth. Khakan uncoupled dirham from the head ring and threw it into the bowl too. On both sides of Torum, the baldans of Sulde with their branches and elk horns, slanted from time to time, rose sternly. At their feet, to the holes, pecked by rooks, the skulls of bears were white. Pam, grunting, leaned over and adjusted the sacred display. May the spirit of the Great Bear of Osh not be offended by neglect to the heads of his children.

“Why should the world collapse if the Russian god settles here, even if it displaces our gods?” - Pam asked, sadly looking at the cracked face of Torum. “Khakan, you are not a superstitious hunter, who sees only wig, wunsherich and vacuques.” You know: let the appearance, name, rite be changed - the spirit will remain the same. Nothing will happen to the world. Had you ever imagined yourself being defending the Sun from Yoma?

They again walked along the path that was supposed to lead to the kans cemetery. Behind Torum, quietly the whole grove of dead birches, hung with bronze and copper figurines, tied with ribbons of pregnant women, rang in the wind. This ringing sounded very sad in the darkness of the ossified forest.

“The God of the Rus is not our god,” said Asyka. “Our gods are born of our destiny, our land.” And their god was born not even their land, but the farthest, somewhere on the edge of the world, where the sun sets and the soil from its heat is barren, dry and hot, like a brazier. What can we do with this god in the midst of snow, Parma, cold winds?

- Who knows, where was born, - smiled the shaman. - You and I came out of the womb of the mother, and En from the egg - so what?

“Our gods are gods of fate and three worlds.” And the god of the Rus is the god of man, and of man alone. For him there is nothing - neither the land, nor the people, nor the ancestors. I listened to Russian shamans. Their god is an outcast, a tramp, he left his mother.

“And you killed your father.”

The prince growled through clenched teeth, but the shaman did not even look back. Silently they walked along the path further. Sticks with donned skulls stuck out of the ground. The balbans, carved right in the trees, stared at the starry sky. The rotten ittarms, ancient idols felled by the wind, lay in the moss. Trees bristled with cuttings of sacrificial arrows and knife handles, from which ropes hung, which once held wallets with offerings.

- Among our mountains, people and gods alike follow the paths of fate! - said Asyka loudly and fiercely. “The will of our land leads us, and our ancestors judge us!” Neither people nor gods can turn off their path, slow down or go backwards! Therefore, we live in eternity and our land is inviolable!

“That's true, but these are the words Humlalta,” said the pam quietly.

- And the Russians themselves choose the road and go along it where they want and how they want! - without hearing the pope, continued the hakan. - They say that the hair from their heads does not fall without the will of their god! But you, pam, you know that the voices of the gods do not sound in everyone’s ears, otherwise we and the Russians would not need shamans like you. Hence, the Ruses themselves unite themselves and their god and always carry him in themselves as they are! This is not faith, pam, but unbelief! This is not the will of the earth, but the desire of man! The Ruses will not bring us another god, as you think, they will simply destroy all the gods, and there will be emptiness! They are perishable, and everything that they create, sooner or later will perish, and their land will perish too! I do not want our land to become their land and die with them! Why are you calm? The Rus must be driven before it is too late, you must kill their wives and children, erase their cities, even get rid of their memory! You say let them come if they do not interfere. But their every stake driven into our land is the Omol stake! Remember: when Yong and Omol divided the land, Omol asked for a piece one-step wide, so that it would be enough just to drive a stake. But all evil spirits got out of the hole, and even now they pour rivers of blood!

The shaman stopped abruptly and, throwing out his hand, pointed the prince down the hill. Down there, a thick and dense stake of dead fir trees, surrounded by a high tyn, bristled.

- See it, hakan? - asked pam. “Two centuries ago, on our land, people of the Visu and Ugru fought to the death, until the great Kan Reda drove the Ugru away. He himself didn’t know what caused this war, that two small nations did not share on this vast land. When he won, he wept with grief! Barefoot, he walked from Dead Parma to the Hebidia-Padara. He was silent for a year and prayed at Zarini, at Sorni-Nai, whose child you brought to us yesterday. And then he took the war, put it in a pot and left the pot in this grove. And the grove was enclosed with a palisade, so that the war would not run away from there, and guardians would be installed, and no one ever entered this grove, and if a branch, at least a pine cone, even a spruce needle, fell from the tree behind the palisade, the shamans picked them up and threw them stakes back. You, Khakan, ask Kansk Tamga to set the war free. Not the Ruses with your god, whatever he may be, but you, blind Humlealt, will pierce the first hole from the Omol Stake, from which an endless stream of blood will rush!

The old shaman, suffocating, clutched at his heart and seemed to hang on his staff. Khakan stood beside him, squeezing his tamga in his fist and looking stubbornly to the side at Star Vorg.

“You're too old, pam,” he said scornfully. - Your heart has become decrepit. You are not a man. You are afraid of blood.

“Even a man should be afraid of senseless blood,” muttered the shaman.

He slowly straightened and stumbled down the path. The shaman and the prince walked past the damned grove, past the sacrificial pits and doodles with gold dishes instead of faces, past huge tangles of twisted and intertwined spruce trunks on the graves of the shamans - the ancients knew how to bend not only bones, but whole trees, twisting them into serpentine knots . Finally, at the bend of the slope, a river flashed under the moon, and Pam led the Khakan to the Kan cemetery. Chamy - burial houses on high pillars - designated the burial of the greatest leaders of the Stone Mountains. Some of the graves were empty - not all kans found peace in their native land. But chamy kept their ittars as a guarantee that the souls of the Kans returned to the paternal mountains.

“This is the chamya of the last kan of Sudog, who more than two hundred years ago dispersed the Mongolian tumens in the mouth of the Chusva, in the battle of Chulmandor,” said pam. - Kanskaya Tamga on his ittarme. You can take it, Asyka. But remember that I did not give it to you.

Hakan silently picked up a nearby ladder and put it at the entrance to the chamyu. Rising up a few steps, he threw back the leather canopy and slipped to the waist in the barn. After a few moments, he had already gotten back, carefully holding a large, yttarma wooden doll dressed in sable yaga. From the neck of the ittarma on the chain hung sacred Kanskaya Tamga, green from time to time, broken off along the edges.

“Maybe our people are destined to leave their gods just as fatefully?” The shaman asked almost imploringly, still hoping to stop the hummerta. - You can renounce everything, but this will not change the course of things in the world, because these things are superior to any person and a whole people ...

“Shut up,” the Khakan ordered.

The moon over the Dead Parma brightly illuminated the prince’s harsh face, with ittarma in his hands standing on the stairs above the shaman. The prince stared into the face of the choog-Sudogu for a long time, as if he wanted to understand something.

And then, with a calm and confident movement, the Khakan Asyka put the ittarma on the threshold of the barn, removed the Tamga from it and removed the tamga from its neck. Holding both tamgas on his palms, as if weighing which one was heavier, he raised his face to the sky. Star Worg Stone Belt crossed the sky. And Khakan Asyk, as if in the water of a spring, dipped his head in the ring of the chain of the ancient Kan Tamga.
 
While reviving these duchies may be far-fetched, I would at least point out Ingermanland should be Karelian in 1444 and arguably Ladoga province as well. Kargopol and Onega should also still be Vespsian/Karelian as well from what I understand.

EDIT: upon going over my sources I rescind my previous suggestion about the culture of Ladoga, Kargopol and Onega!

What sources did you use?
One province I think might be finnic still though is Sororka, which is still today located in the karelian republic, what does your source say on that?

You and Nykyus seems to be right about Ingermanland, it should have a finnic culture

@Nykyus I appreciate the enthusiasm and in general the topics you are writing about, it is also topics I'm very interested in, but remember, this is a forum suggesting how to improve/change the game. It would be very helpful if you could give clear explanation of what your goals are, most of the time you are only posting walls of text with information that would not be relevant, maybe you can post them under spoilers, but make clear and direct texts for what you are actually arguing for


From all I know, there never existed any independent finnic state in Ingermanland since it was incorporated in kievan rus centuries before game start. Now that said the Novgorod republic were in general not a particular centralized country, most of the northern parts of the country held high autonomy aswell as traders often acting independently. Novgorod also started a trend of creating principalities around it's borders, most notably Pskov which under the lithuanian prince Dovmont succeded from Novgorod. Another principality that was founded, but I have struggled to get any consequent sources on is the Principality of Korela, headed by a lithuanian noble family they ruled parts of what is now Leningrad Oblast for almost a century, but seems to have been dismissed osmetime in the early 15th century, if someone (especially someone speaking russian) could manage to uncover better sources on the area some interesting changes might be possible.

There is also currently an unused Ingrian culture, which could be revived under the right circumstances, that is, three provinces having majority ingrian/votic population

and talking about novgorod and uralic ppls, the Nenets wasteland should be opned up as Novgorod territory inhabited by samoyeds and komis
 
Honestly a Pomor republic as vassal of Novgorod wouldn't be completly wrong, looking at a lot of the precedents in the game, including several states in the russia region
 
Apparently, Ingrian culture is in game, however it is unused by the game. Would it be better to use Ingrian culture for Ingermanland then instead of using Karelian?
 
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Apparently, Ingrian culture is in game, however it is unused by the game. Would it be better to use Ingrian culture for Ingermanland then instead of using Karelian?


They would need to move Ingrian to the east slavic group, find 3 provinces to have ingrian culture in and make a tag of sorts for them.
 
I took the text from the social group VK Free Ingria (let the Russian authorities forgive me)

Around 7000 BC The first people occupy the territory of Ingria.

Around 3000 BC Finds so-called. Pit-and-comb ceramics prove that ancient Finno-Ugric tribes already lived on the territory of Ingermanlandia.

About 500 BC The inhabitants of Ingria began to use iron.

859 The Russian chronicle for the first time, in connection with the foundation of Novgorod the Great, mentions Chud.

XI century. Slavic tribes spread to the fertile lands of the Izhora plateau.

1019 Kiev Prince Yaroslav marries a Swedish princess Ingegerda and gives her as a wedding gift the city of Ladoga with the surrounding lands. According to legend, the toponym "Ingermanlandia" occurs on behalf of Princess Ingergerda.

Xrh5gJw3LzA.jpg


1069 The first mention of the Vod people (Russian chronicle).

The beginning of the XII century. Novgorodians convert warriors and Izhor to Christianity who lived in Ingermanlandia.

Late 12th century In the message of the Pope, Izhora was first mentioned, in the Russian chronicles they were first mentioned in 1228.

1240 The army of Prince Alexander of Novgorod defeated the Swedish crusaders, whose approach to Veliky Novgorod was reported by the Izhora elder Pelgusiy, at the mouth of the r. Izhora. The power of Novgorod in Ingria strengthened.

1280 Novgorodians found the first stone fortress in Ingermanland - Koporie. The campaigns of the Swedes to the east continue, in 1293 they base Vyborg in the northeast of the Karelian Isthmus, while the Novgords, who also raided Finland, laid the Korela fortress in 1295 in the northeast.

1300 The Swedes attack Ingria - at the mouth of the Neva and base it on the place where the river Ohta flows into it Landskrona fortress.

1323 In the newly founded fortress Oreshek between Sweden and Veliky Novgorod lies the "eternal peace". According to him, the border passed along the Sestra River and divided the isthmus in two, into the northern and southern parts. Ingermanland remained in the possession of Novgorod.

1478 Novgorod Lands are occupied by Muscovy as a result of the military campaign of Ivan III. The number of Russians in Ingria is beginning to grow.

1500 According to the “salary books”, 67,000 people lived in Ingermanlandia: Izhor, Karelians, Russians, vozhan. There were 4 cities in the country: Kopor'ye, Oreshek, Yam, and Ivangorod.

1555-1557 Military action on the Karelian Isthmus due to disagreements between the Moscow State and Sweden on border issues. The villages of North Ingermanland burned.

1570 Ivan IV the Terrible, who proclaimed himself tsar, invades and ravages Novgorod the Great, whose loyalty he doubted. Oprichnaya army burns Ingermanland villages. In addition to this, Ingria becomes the scene of battles of the Livonian War. The population suffers again.

1583 Under the Plusou peace treaty, captured in 1581 Ivangorod, Yam and Koporye are transferred to Sweden. The beginning of the migration of Lutheran peasants from Finland to Ingermanlandia.

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1595 The war that broke out again ends with the Tyavzino peace, according to which Ingermanlandia returns to Muscovy.

1609 In the so-called. "Time of Troubles", the troops of Jacob Delagardi (Sweden) captured Novgorod.

1611 The permanent Lembolovsky parish is founded first in North Ingermanland. The history of the Church of Ingria begins. In the same year, the Nyenskans Fortress was founded (Nuen-Swede., Nevanlinna-Finnish).

1617 The protracted, seriously destroyed Ingria, the war ends with the Stolbovo peace, according to which it is annexed to the Kingdom of Sweden. The migration of Finns from Savo and Karelia is increasing, while the local Orthodox, including Karelians, fleeing to Muscovy, settling in the area of Valday and Tver.

1642 The administrative center of Ingermanland is transferred from Narva to Nyenskans.

1656-1658 The war for the possession of Ingria between Finland and Sweden, the Orthodox are fleeing en masse to Muscovy. In their place come immigrants from Finland, who partially assimilate the local Finnish-speaking Orthodox population. Migrants are attracted to free land and liberation from recruitment, total in the seventeenth century. from Finland to Ingermanland moved approx. 20,000 people.

1681-1689 Johannes Geselius Jr. was the Superintendent of the Lutheran Consistory in Ingermanlandia. With the efforts of the Orthodox, Izhora and Karelians converted to Lutheranism, the position of the Lutheran church was consolidated, and Orthodoxy oppressed. At the end of the seventeenth century, 75% of the inhabitants of Ingria were Finnish Lutherans.

1700 Moscow Tsar Peter I begins a new war, seeking to get a "window to Europe." In 1702, his troops took Noteburg (Nut) by assault and in 1703 - Nyenskans.

1703 Having captured the mouth of the Neva, Peter I founded the city of St. Petersburg here, which will become the new capital of Moscow State. On the construction of the city people are driven from all over the empire, as the city grows, the national composition of Ingermanlandia changes.

1721 The Nishtadt Peace ends the Northern War, according to its conditions Ingermanlandia returns to Muscovy.

1809 Finland joins the Russian Empire as an autonomous Grand Duchy. The links of the Ingermanland Finns with the forefather ethnos begin to strengthen.

1833 A study of the Finnish ethnographer Anti Juhan Sjögren, published in German, “discovered” the enlightened world of the Finns of the Petersburg province.

1847 D.D.Europeus first begins to collect Finno-Ugric folk poetry in Ingria. Through the efforts of many collectors of folklore, samples of poetry recorded in Ingermanland comprised 9 of 33 volumes of “Ancient Poetry of the Finnish People”. Of the numerous run-up singers of Ingermanland, the izhorka Larin Paraske is the most famous.

1888 Moooz Putro writes the words and music of “Nouse, Inkeri!”, Which later, with the addition of the second verse written by Paavo Ryakkönen, becomes an Ingria hymn.
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1899 On the initiative of M.Putro, the first Ingermanland summer holiday is organized in Pudosti Skvoritsky parish. Until 1918, we had seven large-scale summer holidays.

1908 The social-democratic newspaper Neva begins systematically in St. Petersburg, with the conservative Inkeri competing with it.

1917 Twice under the chairmanship of Kaapre Tünni, a representative congress of the Ingermanland Finns is held; he sets as his goal the achievement of national-cultural autonomy.
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1918 Peasant uprisings against the Bolsheviks in different parts of Ingermanland. Several thousand Ingermanlanders, fleeing Bolshevism, flee to Finland.

1919 The Interim Committee on Ingermanland is established in Finland. Ingermanland volunteer units in the ranks of whites participate in hostilities in Western Ingria.

1919-20 The North-Ingermanland regiment under the command of Yuryo Elfengren keeps a small area of the territory of Northern Ingermanland near the village of Kiryasalo.
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1920 In Tartu, a peace treaty is concluded between Soviet Russia and Finland.

1926 Reform of the administrative structure begins, including. Finnish "national village councils", as well as Kuyvazovsky (later - Toksovsky) national district.

1930-31 Forced collectivization of agriculture in Ingria, the Ingermanland intelligentsia is destroyed (referenced or shot) in full. Thousands of ordinary Ingermanans die in bloody purges.

1939 Preparing an aggression against Finland, the USSR puts the Ingomend Finnish military servicemen under the banner of the Kuusinen people's “army”.

1942 About 27,000 Ingermanland Finns from the siege of Leningrad are exiled to Siberia.

1943-44 63,000 Ingermanland Finns from Ingria’s German-occupied territory are evacuated through Estonia to Finland by decision of the Finnish and German military authorities. In fact, there are no Finns left in Ingermanland.

1945 58,000, under the terms of the 1944 truce, returning from Finland to the Soviet Union, Ingermanland Finns are settled in Central Russia. OK. 5000 people in 1944-48 run from Finland to Sweden.

1947 By a special resolution of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, Ingermanland Finns are prohibited from living in Leningrad and the Leningrad Region.

1954 After the death of Stalin begins the return of the Ingermanland Finns to Ingria, only approx. 30 thousand.

1974 The book “Folk songs of Ingermanlandia” is published in Russian in Petrozavodsk under the editorship of Eino Kiuru. The word "Ingermanlandia" breaks through Soviet censorship for the first time.

1976 The first Finnish Lutheran community is registered in Ingermanlandia in the town of Pushkin.

1987 In Petrozavodsk, the issue of the magazine Punalipu, devoted to the history of Ingria, is published.

1988 “Inkerin Liitto” (Ingermanland Union) is founded in Ingria to unite the Ingermanland Finns, to revive the culture and language. But the result of the activity was the outflow of indigenous people to Finland.

June 12, 1991 In the course of the referendum, 54% of the citizens participating in it spoke in favor of returning the city’s historical name to the city.

September 6, 1991 By the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR, the city returned its original name - St. Petersburg.

On April 25, 1993, along with the All-Russian referendum, a survey was conducted of the population about raising the status of St. Petersburg to the level of an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation. “For” expressed about 75% of citizens.

1993 The Supreme Council of the Russian Federation adopts the Ordinance “On the Rehabilitation of Russian Finns”.

1997 The first powerful surge of regionalist sentiment in modern history among the inhabitants of Ingria. Produced collections of articles, disparate publications in newspapers. There are sites on the Internet dedicated to the topic of possible self-determination.

2005 The second wave of Ingrian patriotism was marked by the holding of a conference, numerous meetings of supporters of the Ingermanland idea, the release of attributes, etc. It continues to this day.
Also, almost for the first time in the history of the Ingermanland national liberation struggle, the emphasis is not on the ethnic (Finno-Ugric) component - more on the mental and ideological.
 
There's a reason they should exist and that's so novgorod can be forced to give up cores in the region without having to culture flip the provinces first.