Confirmed CK III - player force converted to different faith using heresiarch mechanic

[vermax]

Short summary of your issue
player force converted to different faith using heresiarch mechanic

Game Version
1.8.0

What OS are you playing on?
Windows

What platform are you using?
Steam

What DLC do you have installed?
Royal Court,

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes

How much "pain" is this causing you?
10

Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
a few years into the a new game, I the player trigger the heresiarch mechanic. I am force converted to a new faith and become a heresiarch. My vassals and some of my holdings are also converted to the faith.

Please explain how to reproduce the issue
Start a new game, few years in the heresiarch events triggers by itself. It happened a decade after starting a new game the first time. Happened just a year into my second game.

Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
I'm not sure. this is my first time reporting an issue. The issue just happens with no involvement from me.

I have attached a save game
Yes

Upload Attachment
File(s) attached

 

[Bretzky]

This just happened to me in a new game as well. The one thing I would add is that the religion that I converted to is Cathar and the event said that I had been Coptic when in fact my ruler was Turumic. I was playing as High Chieftain Burmort of Perm.

 

[vermax]

I should also add that I was shia islam, but the ingame flavour text tells that I was catholic as per the screenshot

 

[Babbmeister]

Having the same problem! Please hot fix paradox!

 

[madpower1000]

This has been a severe issue for me as well, making any saves with issue virtually unplayable (absurdly constant Religion Changes for me with the heresiarch event) without console commands or cheats.

 

[Phanden]

This is exactly happened to me just now too. I started as Emir Hasan of the Hashimid Emirate, married, and declared holy war against another county, only to be force converted to Apostolic.

 

[Opanashc]

Is your faith fervor no more than 40? Are you a duke with less than 3 duchy titles? Than it's working as coded.
Only questionable design, is the choice to convert the player in 50% of the time.

faith_heresy_events_pulse = {
    trigger = {
        fervor <= 40
        NOR = {
            has_doctrine_parameter = unreformed
            has_variable = current_heresy
        }
    }


    random_events = {
        chance_to_happen = 25
        chance_of_no_event = {
            if = {
                limit = { fervor > 30 }
                value = 90
            }
            else_if = {
                limit = { fervor > 20 }
                value = 70
            }
            else_if = {
                limit = { fervor > 10 }
                value = 40
            }
        }
        100 = heresy.0001
        100 = heresy.0005
    }
}

 

[Phanden]

Zayidism starts with 50% fervor in the 867 AD (1st Jan) start. At the time of my conversion it was 53%, because of the 3.50% yearly growth.

 

[madpower1000]

Is your faith fervor no more than 40? Are you a duke with less than 3 duchy titles? Than it's working as coded.
Only questionable design, is the choice to convert the player in 50% of the time.

faith_heresy_events_pulse = {
    trigger = {
        fervor <= 40
        NOR = {
            has_doctrine_parameter = unreformed
            has_variable = current_heresy
        }
    }


    random_events = {
        chance_to_happen = 25
        chance_of_no_event = {
            if = {
                limit = { fervor > 30 }
                value = 90
            }
            else_if = {
                limit = { fervor > 20 }
                value = 70
            }
            else_if = {
                limit = { fervor > 10 }
                value = 40
            }
        }
        100 = heresy.0001
        100 = heresy.0005
    }
}

Thanks for finding the event.

Faith Fervor was hovering around 40 in the save i was playing and i was a tribal Norse character with 1 duchy however the event wasn't just firing say once over the course of a couple decades in game but was firing randomly sometimes there would be a gap of a few years but other times the heresiarch event would be firing multiple times per year which started making the game unplayable as i was spending more time fixing the constant faith changing rather than actually enjoying the game.

 

[Kiril Krastev]

From this file in the game directory in game/events/religion_events, I deleted:

Everything from here

To here

And the problem with the random herecy convertion doesn't seem to exist anymore.

 

[Opanashc]

Think I found the issue.
Event heresy.0001 checks to see if the target is a valid heresiarch:

Spoiler: Code

random_ruler = {
            #Prefer Dukes with only 1 or 2 Duchies.
            limit = {
                is_valid_heresiarch = yes
                highest_held_title_tier = 3
                any_held_title = {
                    tier = tier_duchy
                    count < 3 #Limit the influence of Mega-Dukes
                }
            }
            #Then accept any valid Duke.
            alternative_limit = {
                is_valid_heresiarch = yes
                highest_held_title_tier = 3
            }
            #If no Dukes exist, accept a Count.
            alternative_limit = {
                is_valid_heresiarch = yes       
            }

But then the trigger does this:

Spoiler: Trigger

is_valid_heresiarch = {
    is_adult = yes
    is_imprisoned = no
    is_incapable = no
    is_landed = yes
    exists = capital_county
    NOT = { has_trait = heresiarch }
    no_heretical_hof_faith_trigger = yes
    recently_converted_faith_trigger = no
    OR = {
        AND = {
            faith = root
            OR = {
                highest_held_title_tier = tier_duchy
                highest_held_title_tier = tier_county
            }
        }
        is_ai = no
    }
}

In the highlighted portion, you can see, that the target must be either:
1. Target faith count or duke
OR
2. Not ai.
Hence some random faith can have a heresy and target the player even of different faith.
But wait, there's more! Italicized is the check to see, if the character was converted by the heresy event or forced to convert by liege:

Spoiler: Trigger

recently_converted_faith_trigger = {
    OR = {
        has_character_flag = converted_by_heresy_0011_event
        has_character_flag = converted_by_heresy_0010_event
        has_character_flag = converted_by_forced_conversion_interaction
    }
}

But the event heresy.0010 (the one that is actually does the dirty job of conversion) does not set the converted_by_heresy_0010_event flag for the target ruler. Only for the courtiers and guests!

Spoiler: Code

scope:heretic_ruler = {
            #Convert this character to the new heresy.
            set_character_faith_with_conversion = scope:heretic_faith
            #Heresy-using faiths become heresiarchs.
            if = {
                limit = {
                    faith = {
                        OR = {
                            NOT = { has_doctrine = eastern_hostility_doctrine }
                            has_doctrine = heresy_hostility_doctrine #Zoroastrians also get heresies, despite being Eastern.
                        }
                    }
                }
                add_trait = heresiarch
            }


            #Kick off the follow-up events in the heresy chain.
            trigger_event = {
                id = heresy.0011
                days = { 4 7 }
            }


            #Convert most miscellaneous courtiers & guests they have to the same heresy.
            every_courtier_or_guest = {
                limit = {
                    faith = scope:origin_faith
                    NOR = {
                        has_trait = zealous
                        this = this.faith.religious_head
                    }
                    is_available_ai = yes
                }
                set_character_faith = scope:heretic_faith


                hidden_effect = {
                    add_character_flag = {
                        flag = converted_by_heresy_0010_event
                        years = 15
                    }
                }
            }
        }

In bold is the target ruler conversion, in italics is the courtier's conversion - you clearly see the flag being set for courtiers but not the target ruler.

 

[sandwich8]

Furthermore, no one actually gets to keep the heresiarch trait since there's an event (faith_conversion.0002) that triggers and removes it. Pretty strange.

 

[Opanashc]

Furthermore, no one actually gets to keep the heresiarch trait since there's an event (faith_conversion.0002) that triggers and removes it. Pretty strange.

No, makes perfect sense. Cannot be head of a heretical faith, if you are not of that faith, can you? That would be as if a muslim became the Pope.

 

[sandwich8]

No, makes perfect sense. Cannot be head of a heretical faith, if you are not of that faith, can you? That would be as if a muslim became the Pope.

I mean the same event that gives you the heresiarch trait also removes it, since it triggers a faith conversion event. So no one in the world can actually gain the trait without having it immediately removed.

 

[KalebbLost]

I have the same issue playing as Rurik in 862, converting from Asatru to Christian Orthodox. Gained heresiarch trait and removed just after.
Is it intended to happen in this way or should it only happen with heresies of the same religion?

The flavor text even implies the wrong religion... Should be Asatru instead of Nestorian?

 

[Kazarion]

I don't understand the faith = root in this trigger as the scope is on the character so it compares the faith with the character ?

is_valid_heresiarch = {
    is_adult = yes
    is_imprisoned = no
    is_incapable = no
    is_landed = yes
    exists = capital_county
    NOT = { has_trait = heresiarch }
    no_heretical_hof_faith_trigger = yes
    recently_converted_faith_trigger = no
    OR = {
        AND = {
            faith = root
            OR = {
                highest_held_title_tier = tier_duchy
                highest_held_title_tier = tier_county
            }
        }
        is_ai = no
    }
}

I struggle to reproduce this thing and i'm on my potatoe PC, is there an easy & quick way to trigger this ?

 

[Opanashc]

I don't understand the faith = root in this trigger

Event heresy.0001 is fired for a faith, that has less than 40 fervor and can have heresy. That event looks for a suitable target leader, and checks his faith against the root faith i.e. the faith that the event fired for. But then the trigger for the character checks if he is of correct faith OR if he is player controlled - hence we can have the heresy event fire for Christianity, but choose the player who is Asatru.

 

[Kazarion]

Event heresy.0001 is fired for a faith, that has less than 40 fervor and can have heresy. That event looks for a suitable target leader, and checks his faith against the root faith i.e. the faith that the event fired for. But then the trigger for the character checks if he is of correct faith OR if he is player controlled - hence we can have the heresy event fire for Christianity, but choose the player who is Asatru.

Ho okay but why would they do that ? Leftover from test ? I'm gonna remove the is_ai = no, and so the OR won't be needed anymore

 

[Opanashc]

Ho okay but why would they do that ? Leftover from test ? I'm gonna remove the is_ai = no, and so the OR won't be needed anymore

What is the name of the subforum we are discussing this? Bug Report. Hint hint, stomp stomop.
Honestly, they are only human and make mistakes.

 

[fodazd]

For reference: This is what the trigger looked like in 1.7.1:

Spoiler: Code

is_valid_heresiarch = {
    faith = root
    OR = {
        highest_held_title_tier = tier_duchy
        highest_held_title_tier = tier_county
    }
    is_imprisoned = no
    is_capable_adult_ai = yes
    is_landed = yes
    exists = capital_county
    NOT = { has_trait = heresiarch }
    no_heretical_hof_faith_trigger = yes
    recently_converted_faith_trigger = no
}