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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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duuk said:
if i were designing the game, i'd definitely create "related culture groups" that could and should be subdivided to the point of insanity. Each minority group should be represented, no matter how pathetically insignificant.

Because if that's not the way it's designed, then this forum is going to be full for months of threads that don't focus on the actual game play of v2, but instead focus on "why was <minority x> not represented in <province>!!!???"

that will distract from the discussion that will actually matter.
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It has already been stated that cultures will NOT be divided a ridiculous number of times, since it wouldn't add much to the game, and would be a micro nightmare. An example used was, what if you had a province that was a real melting pot, and you had dozens of cultures there?

It would be incredibly difficult to figure out who is happy/mad at you, and more importantly why?
 
Duuk said:
If I were designing the game, I'd definitely create "related culture groups" that could and should be subdivided to the point of insanity. Each minority group should be represented, no matter how pathetically insignificant.

Because if that's not the way it's designed, then this forum is going to be full for months of threads that don't focus on the actual game play of V2, but instead focus on "Why was <minority X> not represented in <province>!!!???"

That will distract from the discussion that will actually matter.
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When we see the game, I can almost guarantee that V2IP will be tweaking the demographics. Paradox isn't going to concern itself with a thousand Albanians in Naples, or obscure tribes in the Niger Delta: that's our department :D
 
Carewolf2 said:
Not all of germany. At most much of the protestant North, in particular Lübeck (a goal which many EU-fans would understand).
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Yes the North to begin with (especially all of the German coast, since Danish interest at the time was in the Baltics), but Prussia also started as a minor Duchy...

If Denmark had been succesful in Germany, then invaded Sweden and forced a new union and then defeated Russia (they would be coming for Denmark if such event unfolded) then thing would be very different :)
 
MarcFloyd said:
Yeah, till now we would all speak like we had a throat disease :rofl:
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Hey it could have happened! Just look at Swedish history in the period... Before the 30-year War Denmark and Sweden where about equal... The problem is the Napoleonic wars, but with so many changes in the Baltic area, then it's impossible to know how the alliances would have been following the French Revolution. And since the Danish Navy was the 3rd largest in the world it might well at the time of the Napoleonic (Danish and Swedish navy combined) was have been equal to the French and British navy.
 
King said:
Reread your post. At one point you use the words 'pan-Italian nationalism' and then later on you state 'Making things pan-cultural is the exact wrong direction for V2 to go.' Just think about it, we have pan-cultural nationism during the period, so this is exactly the wrong thing to put in the game?
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But look very closely at what happened in real life.

Until 1 state had enough Prestige and Influence to claim the "National Tag", the minority states were perfectly content to be minority states.

The way I'd work it, if I was doing it:

NATIONAL_TAG_EVENT
Has 70% of provinces ### ### ### etc
Converts minority cultures to main culture tag in owned provinces.

That way, a "Romania" could be a mess of minor cultures unless and until someone managed to get the pre-requisites to form Romania. A "Germany" could form based on Austria or Prussia (or Bavaria etc etc) and the formation of that state would cause the owned provinces to switch from "Bavarian" to "German". This would make that state more stable.

Modify the cultural conversion event so if the culture is part of the national tag it becomes more likely. (IE: Bavaria isn't part of Germany when it forms, but gets conquered later. Bavarian provinces are more likely to switch to German).

What this system allows is for national tags to stay splintered if nobody claims the tag (Savoyard, Sicilian, Napoli, etc vs Italian), but homogenizes the nation if it IS formed.

Thus: A thousand minority cultures available, everyone is happy. But pan-national states IF THEY FORM become a dominant nationality.
 
Duuk said:
But look very closely at what happened in real life.

Until 1 state had enough Prestige and Influence to claim the "National Tag", the minority states were perfectly content to be minority states.

The way I'd work it, if I was doing it:

NATIONAL_TAG_EVENT
Has 70% of provinces ### ### ### etc
Converts minority cultures to main culture tag in owned provinces.

That way, a "Romania" could be a mess of minor cultures unless and until someone managed to get the pre-requisites to form Romania. A "Germany" could form based on Austria or Prussia (or Bavaria etc etc) and the formation of that state would cause the owned provinces to switch from "Bavarian" to "German". This would make that state more stable.

Modify the cultural conversion event so if the culture is part of the national tag it becomes more likely. (IE: Bavaria isn't part of Germany when it forms, but gets conquered later. Bavarian provinces are more likely to switch to German).

What this system allows is for national tags to stay splintered if nobody claims the tag (Savoyard, Sicilian, Napoli, etc vs Italian), but homogenizes the nation if it IS formed.

Thus: A thousand minority cultures available, everyone is happy. But pan-national states IF THEY FORM become a dominant nationality.
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What happened in Germany in 1848 again?
 
King said:
Well the culture groups are still up the air at the moment. All I can really talk about is the kind of ideas were are bouncing about. So anything I say now may not make it into the game, however it might give you an idea of what we are thinking about. Dutch, Flemish, Wallonian all go together in a Low countries culuture with a United Netherlands union tag, hey that country has just fallen apart. French is a single culture in a culture group of its own. France goes through a lot of revolutionary activity in the Victoria period yet you do not see powerful succession movements, we do not feel that France really should have revolters. It has a strong national identity which is strong enough to survive things like the 1848 revolutions, the Franco-Prussian war, the hell of Verdun. So as things stand at the moment we don't see lots of local cultures, except perhaps Breton.
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Education spending should definitely influence the time it takes for POPs to assimilate. After all, if you didn't teach people that they belonged to a certain culture group (or a new one, if you want to create a new country), then it would take longer. To this, newspapers also play a very vital role in propagating and "teaching" people what culture group they are/should belong to. France is one case where the masters after the revolution later made the rural peasants learn how to be and become French.
 
First of all, I want to say that I think that Union tags are a fantastic idea, hats off for that! I have a few questions about them however:

Is it possible for a culture group to be part of two Union tags? An example where it could work would be Wallonian being part of French union tag as well as United Netherlands Union tag, so Wallonian rebels in the United Netherlands might defect to France, or France could use Wallonians as efficiently as their French National Culture pops.

Another example where this overlap could work might be in the case of Panamanian pops being part of Gran Colombia and also USCA, or perhaps Canadians fitting into the UK Union Tag and also the USA (that might be a little to far fetched however, perhaps high Anglo-Canadian > Yankee assimilation rates might better model that possibility).


My other question is: will rebels ignore national borders as in EU3, or stay within them as they did in the first Victoria? It would make sense for a broad polish rebellion in Congress Poland to spill over into parts of Prussia and Galicia, so I think the EU3 system works better here.
 
hasskugel said:
First of all, I want to say that I think that Union tags are a fantastic idea, hats off for that! I have a few questions about them however:

Is it possible for a culture group to be part of two Union tags? An example where it could work would be Wallonian being part of French union tag as well as United Netherlands Union tag, so Wallonian rebels in the United Netherlands might defect to France, or France could use Wallonians as efficiently as their French National Culture pops.
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Already been stated that it's not possible, actually. Which is unfortunate, because I wholeheartedly agree with the idea.
 
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