Somehow, I doubt the memers and those going back to the days of Dubya are particularly concerned whether the borders they're dumpstering are WW2 vs modern on average.
1.6 completely ruined historical borders
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Somehow, I doubt the memers and those going back to the days of Dubya are particularly concerned whether the borders they're dumpstering are WW2 vs modern on average.
I am up all night [retired], so I just got out of bed and am having my "morning" coffee. First thing I noticed when I browsed to this forum was this post. What the ... ?!? First and foremost, this is a World War II game. Right? I mean isn't it? I have not opened my game yet. Not sure I want to. How in the world do you have a WWII game with MODERN borders? Is this for real? If players want a modern-era game, then mod one as such. Since I have the Expansion Pass, I am assuming my PC already has 1.6 downloaded. I think I would rather stay at 1.54 until, and if, this is fixed, if indeed it is broken and not a purposeful decision. I had better finish my caffeine fix before I do or say anything more. Please tell me this wasn't on purpose ....
Ocupational borders such as in Yugoslavia followed no logic and wouldn't be permanent. I prefer the current ones. And ty Paradox
I made this for a comparision. Yeah, the pre-1.6 borders were not perfect and very detailed in some places (Slovenia or Slovakia for example) but they at least bear some resemblance to the actual historical borders. 1.6 update butchered borders in many places. This is just a small part of map affected by the map changes, targeted to the Balkans and Germany. The states as they are in game have the same owners in 1.5 and 1.6 so you can see the difference. The only thing that was improved was the Croatian border with Serbia thanks to Sremska Mitrovica.
I'm just going to say, that humongous Morava state needs to go. Literal cancer. Maybe split it into East and West among the river?
I get it. People want to play Millennium mod. Want modern borders. But wouldn't you be better served to put an option in the game for what type of borders you want? (i.e. old style vs new style) so that way modders could take advantage of that? (Since they already added a million options to start now)
Or.. you could take advantage of the monetary aspects and create a new DLC (or HOI4: Modern Day game) that offers a modern take on the game.
Plus I would love to see the poll where there was asking everyone "Hey guys, if we change the borders from historical WW2 to more modern, how do you feel".
I think to many game companies now days are just feeding the loudest trolls on the forums. And the regular players get ousted because they either don't read the forums, or skip the posts saying "I want modern borders" because they figure.. this is a WW2 game, the company will never do that.
You always get the biggest reactions AFTER you change something, because you thought 80% of the fanbase WANTED something, but then find out afterwards that 80% of the fanbase DIDN'T want that, but you never asked.
Now I have no idea what the fan base wants. But, I play this game in historical mode because I am a WW2 fan. I never play the Millennium mod, because I don't want to play 2010. Just like I don't play the WW1 mods or anything else, as I am not interested historically in those wars.
Thats just my 2 cents.
Edit: I love how people disagree with this statement, even though there is literally nothing to disagree with.
- I said I would like to see polls about game changes (who wouldn't want this?)
- I said game companies feed the loudest on forums (true)
- I said companies get the loudest reaction after they change something (true)
- I said I was a big fan of WW2 (true)
- I said there should be options to have borders for modern/historical borders (who wouldn't want this?)
So what -exactly- are you disagreeing with? lol
Or.. you could take advantage of the monetary aspects and create a new DLC (or HOI4: Modern Day game) that offers a modern take on the game.
Plus I would love to see the poll where there was asking everyone "Hey guys, if we change the borders from historical WW2 to more modern, how do you feel".
I think to many game companies now days are just feeding the loudest trolls on the forums. And the regular players get ousted because they either don't read the forums, or skip the posts saying "I want modern borders" because they figure.. this is a WW2 game, the company will never do that.
You always get the biggest reactions AFTER you change something, because you thought 80% of the fanbase WANTED something, but then find out afterwards that 80% of the fanbase DIDN'T want that, but you never asked.
Now I have no idea what the fan base wants. But, I play this game in historical mode because I am a WW2 fan. I never play the Millennium mod, because I don't want to play 2010. Just like I don't play the WW1 mods or anything else, as I am not interested historically in those wars.
Thats just my 2 cents.
Edit: I love how people disagree with this statement, even though there is literally nothing to disagree with.
- I said I would like to see polls about game changes (who wouldn't want this?)
- I said game companies feed the loudest on forums (true)
- I said companies get the loudest reaction after they change something (true)
- I said I was a big fan of WW2 (true)
- I said there should be options to have borders for modern/historical borders (who wouldn't want this?)
So what -exactly- are you disagreeing with? lol
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Yes, but WHICH WW2 borders? The ones in Pre-War, Post-War, sometime in-between?Well, i am no expert but i think that you should have WW2 borders in WW2 game. People can always subscribe to the mods that add or change them to look like the post-war or modern day borders. I think that it's more acceptable than downloading a mod to have WW2 borders in WW2 game.
Anyway, thank you for answer
1936. Or 1939. depending on when your game starts? Borders should change within the game depending on decisions, wars and agreements.
Like I said, just my 2 cents.
I love the Modern Day 4 / Millennium Dawn mods. For my personal playtime they are second only to the Total War mod. But this......this seems totally bass-ackwards to me. I can only imagine the surreal Change Management meeting that led to this Course of Action. A WW2 game needs WW2 borders. If modders what something radically different, they can (and WILL) put in the effort of content creation on their own.
This is the sort of thing that gives wargamer's a bad name. Not that the issue isn't a real topic, it is... I for one demand that the No.1 MkIII and Ju52 artwork be put into the game.
But a major patch gets released with a tons of new great stuff and some get so worked up about these love interests that they "won't load the game" and what not.
I adore this game and have faith they will make some good calls.
But a major patch gets released with a tons of new great stuff and some get so worked up about these love interests that they "won't load the game" and what not.
I adore this game and have faith they will make some good calls.
The obvious point already made, but in this case repetition matters. Adding my voice to those supporting historical 1936/1939 (with 1945 achievable during game). The notion of a WW2 game deviating from WW2 start/endstate borders is mystifying.
How did you guys talk yourselves into this move?
How did you guys talk yourselves into this move?
I don't think it is too much to ask for WW2 borders in a WW2 game.
HOI4 already struggles with immersion.
Immersion is important. Especially for a history game.
HOI4 already struggles with immersion.
Immersion is important. Especially for a history game.
Man the Guns. Now available with free can of worms.
Was this part of the free content with the 1.6 update?
Someone please post a link to whoever makes the first “Return WWII borders” mod available.
Was this part of the free content with the 1.6 update?
Someone please post a link to whoever makes the first “Return WWII borders” mod available.
I usually dismiss most of the day one complaints out of hand as people tend to not like change BUT this does seem a bit of an insane design decision. Hope they change it back next DLC or a mod comes along to fix.
The only thing more jarring I can think of than unhistorical borders is when I accidentally turn on the flamboyant Hitler mod.
The only thing more jarring I can think of than unhistorical borders is when I accidentally turn on the flamboyant Hitler mod.
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But seriously I don't know how with other borders, but you (PDX) could do Ribbentrop-Mołotow one in such a way that it will be acceptable for everyone.
First, reverse bottom part of the border to its previous shape. It looks good and close enough to actual one while new border looks terrible as German-soviet border (which in typical border last definitely longer that after-war one). just look at that picture (red circle). I want also to point out that border of Poland in that place was changed in the 50s so it looked different before! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish–Soviet_territorial_exchange)
Second, Germany 1942 border. This is a worse part because require new state so I don't think it will be considered but still. You could add a small state, let's name it Grodno and make it together with Bialystok create old borders of Bialystok state. Visualized on a previous picture - black circle.
The result is a set that enables achieve both mid war and after war borders:
PS. I addressed this problem in my old mod for 1.5 from which those images come. I might do a similar one for this patch but I won't promise. I would rather see this as a part of the base game...
First, reverse bottom part of the border to its previous shape. It looks good and close enough to actual one while new border looks terrible as German-soviet border (which in typical border last definitely longer that after-war one). just look at that picture (red circle). I want also to point out that border of Poland in that place was changed in the 50s so it looked different before! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Polish–Soviet_territorial_exchange)
Second, Germany 1942 border. This is a worse part because require new state so I don't think it will be considered but still. You could add a small state, let's name it Grodno and make it together with Bialystok create old borders of Bialystok state. Visualized on a previous picture - black circle.
The result is a set that enables achieve both mid war and after war borders:
PS. I addressed this problem in my old mod for 1.5 from which those images come. I might do a similar one for this patch but I won't promise. I would rather see this as a part of the base game...
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D'Annunzio is not happy that they added Fiume (Rijeka) as Jugoslavian.
But talking about borders, it seems clear that the most obvious thing it's to appease both the positions as best as possible.
Post War borders are desiderable also for historical players, because, you know, also the final result it's part of the conflict. But at the same time the Borders happened during the years of the war were result of real outcomes, can't be removed in a game about the historical context were the happened to come in being.
So I'm a little surprised that the most obvious choiche (add some states) was not selected. We have little states to describe various important historical situations, like Zadar. In this case it seems to be even less traumatic from a gameplay point of view!
But talking about borders, it seems clear that the most obvious thing it's to appease both the positions as best as possible.
Post War borders are desiderable also for historical players, because, you know, also the final result it's part of the conflict. But at the same time the Borders happened during the years of the war were result of real outcomes, can't be removed in a game about the historical context were the happened to come in being.
So I'm a little surprised that the most obvious choiche (add some states) was not selected. We have little states to describe various important historical situations, like Zadar. In this case it seems to be even less traumatic from a gameplay point of view!
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This all sounds like a bit of a storm in a teacup. How bad are these borders? i keep seeing people commenting that these are modern day borders? Asides from the obvious anger that they aren't historically accurate, can anyone see any future direction (e.g cold war/paris treaty borders) that they may be taking and thus decided to switch borders around a bit at this moment in preparation? or is this more linked to to some of the new national focus chain for certain nations that required borders be redrawn so the nation looks fairly recognizable on the map?
Just trying to work out if there a grander plan to extend the timeline of HOI for longevity of DLC or introduce new scenarios? tbh i'm not has clued up has you guys on all the historical borders of continental Europe to notice a slither of land missing from one nation to another.
Given all the decolonization mechanics for Britain, it does seem the sun is destined to set upon the British Empire, and wonder if its all building toward a resetting of the chess table somewhat for a cold war expansion and if other nations will follow a similar path in time like Soviet Union Warsaw pact etc, and the border gore is just a compromise to realize future expansions?
Given how big some of the cold war & modern day mods are, seems like a tried and tested area for DLC expansion from a business point of view for the future when everyone had their fill of world war 2.
Just trying to work out if there a grander plan to extend the timeline of HOI for longevity of DLC or introduce new scenarios? tbh i'm not has clued up has you guys on all the historical borders of continental Europe to notice a slither of land missing from one nation to another.
Given all the decolonization mechanics for Britain, it does seem the sun is destined to set upon the British Empire, and wonder if its all building toward a resetting of the chess table somewhat for a cold war expansion and if other nations will follow a similar path in time like Soviet Union Warsaw pact etc, and the border gore is just a compromise to realize future expansions?
Given how big some of the cold war & modern day mods are, seems like a tried and tested area for DLC expansion from a business point of view for the future when everyone had their fill of world war 2.
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