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Reception & Thoughts | Patch 1.14.2 [Checksum fbf7]

Greetings all!

Today marks the first dev diary since the release of Trial of Allegiance, so we’ll be looking back over how things went, and community reactions in a little more detail than usual. While I would have loved to have some data on player choices and interactions for today’s diary, our analytics engine is busy chugging away. So, we’ll have to hold off on that until the machine spirit has assessed the incoming preponderance of data.

The Elephant in the Room

It would be hard to talk about Trial of Allegiance without first mentioning that we’re acutely aware of its critical reception from fans.

We’ve had releases with less than satisfactory reviews before, so why talk about them this time? Well, this mostly boils down to the reasons. Usually when something doesn’t do well we’ll create a timeline and buckle down to address the issues that matter. As you’ll see below, things are a little different this time.

Above all, I see no reason not to be transparent about this, and I’m going to use today as an opportunity to talk about what it means to us and how we analyze reactions, so let’s dive into some of the facts:

Everything’s on Fire!

Well, actually no. Trial of Allegiance has thus far been one of our most stable releases in terms of bugs and player-encountered issues. This doesn’t mean there aren’t bugs: stuff always creeps through, but as you may have noticed by now, we’ve had an Open Beta running with a patch scheduled sometime today. The patch notes will be attached to the end of this document. Furthermore, we have another patch scheduled in next week to give us a chance to tackle more complex problems.

Due to the low incidence of bugs in the ToA content, we’re spending a bit more time on general improvements and things folks thought were lacking.

Developer’s Perspective: bugs are defects in the game - errors or unforeseen complexities that render part of the experience to not work as intended. We don’t usually consider design choices or outdated content as bugs unless they cause the first statement to apply, since that evaluation is often subjective.

Circles Within Circles

Our steam review score has taken a fairly heavy beating on Trial of Allegiance. Reviews on DLCs are notoriously hard to draw accurate conclusions from, as very few people tend to leave reviews compared to the overall number of people who bought a DLC. Trial of Allegiance is particularly notable in that regard, as there are fewer reviews overall than we would normally expect. It’s absolutely possible to theorize behind why that is, but that’s all those are: theories.

That said, we read every review. Aaand it’s quite hard, tbh. Being a venerable ancient of the internet, I could wax lyrical on toxicity, vocabulary, and dissociation, but at the end of the day folks leave reviews for a reason. The language they use isn’t as important as the sentiment they’re trying to convey, even if they don’t always know the right way to do it.

What we try and do, therefore, is to try and don our armor of not-taking-things-too-personally, and group negative reviews by common themes or sentiments.

For Trial of Allegiance, we assessed clear ‘meta’ groupings in order of weight*:

  • Unhappiness about recent regional currency price adjustments
  • Unhappiness about the price of the country pack
    • Compared to other HOI4 expansions
    • Other
  • Bought it but wanted something different
    • New mechanics, or
    • A european expansion
  • Unhappy with the quality of the release
    • In relation to specific issues;
    • In relation to mods
    • Unclear/Unintelligible
    • Unclear/Horrendously offensive

*This requires looking at global reviews, not english-language only: something we take quite seriously.

The exact weighting here changes a lot over time, but suffice it to say that the top grouping is significantly larger than any of the others, and the last grouping vice-versa.

But hang on, does this just mean we’re being review bombed by angry interest groups? Well, that would be a nice easy assumption that allows us to feel good about ourselves and go home for supper, but there doesn’t seem to be any coordinated effort here as far as we can tell.

What we can tell here is that folks commonly leave reviews for reasons unrelated to the content we made.

So, these are the findings. So far these have been presented as factual; now we take a more subjective view when it comes to reacting to the findings.

Regional Pricing

This one was a little unexpected, though in hindsight it shouldn’t have been. Looking back over recent reviews on our other expansions, we see the same trend.

In January, Paradox made efforts to normalize pricing across various currency regions according to (as I understand it) a standard used by Valve. On HoI, we saw this as a mostly administrative change, and did not, I think, ask enough questions about the effect it might have on our game-specific player base.
I am not promising any sweeping changes here for decisions that have already been made. What I can say however, is that we will not be treating any such changes as administrative in the future. We will be doing our due diligence.

General Pricing

A little more expected, perhaps, but with some important notes. The vast majority of complaints about the pricing of this release came with comparisons or in relation to other content we’ve released in the past.

While it overlaps a little with the next topic, I feel like we could have been clearer with setting expectations about what a country pack is.

Another observation here is that our fanbase seems to attach more importance to the consistency of expansion prices than we tend to. A lot of the comparisons we’re seeing are equating content made many years ago or at a completely different scale to Trial of Allegiance.

Wanted Something Different

This one is a real games-industry conundrum. Traditionally, if you bring something to market that doesn’t interest everyone, the uninterested ones avoid it. Not so here.

We knew that South America would be a divisive topic amongst the fanbase: some regard it as important, some do not. We calculated that this would make these nations perfect for a country-pack release instead of a full expansion - including mechanics in something that may not interest everyone would put fans in the situation of having to purchase something they did not want.

And, uh, that backfired a bit. Overwhelmingly, reviews in this category are asking where the mechanics are, or why we’re spending time on X instead of Y.

Importantly though, we aren’t gonna change that. We will sometimes have country pack releases, and they will not contain mechanics, though perhaps there’s some middle ground for tech/unit/other additions.

This all comes with a big but: the Juno team who created Trial of Allegiance are not the only ones working on HOI4. Creating content packs is not being done at the expense of other things. We aren’t ready to talk about exactly what’s coming yet, but simply put: we have mechanical expansions in the pipeline that are being built at this very moment. Outside of expansions, we have even more big stuff happening for HoI in the very near future. Watch this space.

Developer’s Perspective: Even if we wanted to, making two mechanical expansions in parallel would be a significant technical challenge. Some games are built to make that easy! HOI is not one of them.

Quality of Release

This is predominantly the stuff that reviews traditionally focus on. Was the delivered content good/bad/neutral? The nature of this is subjective, and these reviews are really where we can act by making changes and fixes. Below you’ll find the patch notes for our first iteration on ToA’s content, with more to come soon.

Overall what we’re seeing from players that stated an active interest in South America is a trending positive reaction. There are some key problems raised to us from highly invested players, which we’ll do our best to address. There are learnings we want to take into future country packs or war effort patches, including but not limited to:

  • Shared branches were one of those things that made sense at the time, but in hindsight we should have avoided.
  • People love map changes more than I thought humanly possible.
  • Power creep is real, and we should have a balance reckoning sooner rather than later
  • We can do more with units, tech, and non-focus content without being explicitly ‘mechanical’ in nature. This was sort of on our radar already, but player feedback confirms that.

As I mentioned above, this has been a very bug-light release, but if an issue is plaguing you then please let us know through the usual channels, and we’ll spend any time left over on making other improvements to ToA’s content.

—-----------

Stuff That Doesn’t Really Help

Reviews that are empty/irrelevant/insulting/contain mysterious dwarven chanting are not going to be useful to us. When I say that we read all reviews, I’m not kidding - but if there’s no actionable text, we can’t do anything with it. Of course, it is your right to maintain a practice of critical ambiguity, I’m just saying it won’t produce results.

Reviews and comments that set up a strawman and try to assign a motive to the decisions we make serves only to create a rift between developers and community. We love this game as much as you do, and while it would be naive of me to assume that every discussion can be equally polite and constructive, I do believe that it is better if we let people represent themselves.

Of course, the vast majority of you understand this.

In Conclusion

From my perspective, team Juno had a cracking debut release, and I’m beyond proud of what they accomplished. The strategic side of things is where we’ve fallen short, and that is my cross to bear.

Finally, the reason I’m saying any of this stuff is to give you folks some context. This is hopefully an insight into the thought process that collectively happens behind the scenes at HoI HQ.

I’ll be around to try and answer any questions!



Below, you’ll find the patch notes for the update coming sometime today:

################################################################
######## Patch 1.14.2 "Bolivar" #########
################################################################

##################################
# Bugfix & Gameplay Additions
##################################
- Presets in the equipment designer should not be blocked because of so-called negative stats
- Blockade runner now requires fighting with at least one >37 knot ship
- Added a decision for fascist Chile after completing the focus "Forge a New Chilean Identity" to change the national flag to the Patria Vieja based one, due to popular demand.
- Added Felipe Molas López as advisor for Paraguay
- Valentino Riroko Tuki's trait has been buffed, and RAP now gains slightly more things when released and chosen to be played as a part of the Araucanian-Chilean civil war.
- Blockade runner is now actually obtainable
- Flourishing economy for Paraguay no longer expires
- Revenge for the Triple Alliance and Rekindle old gripes now gives wargoals against both actors in a civil war if BRA or ARG is in a civil war
- Fixed an issue where two designer companies for Chile wouldn't have icons with AAT disabled.
- Fixed a bug where Bartolome Blanche would go to the revolting side in the Araucanian civil war despite the non-aligned side still meeting all the requirements to keep him.
- Fixed an issue where taking any of the Promote Spanish Immigration decisions as Chile would permanently block the player from taking any further immigration decisions.
- Support the Spanish republicans no longer spams the error folder
- Historical AI behavior setting for Uruguay no longer disallows achievements
- Fixed an issue where Paraguay could take a focus before taking the prerequisite focus
- You no longer require French Somaliland for the Chilean empire achivement
- USA should no longer guarantee Monroe countries in addition to having the Monroe spirit if Trial of Allegiance is on, unless Tension is > 90%
- Replaced some Uruguayan spirit icons with nicer ones
- Italy now joins the war when France proper is being invaded by Axis troops, or on the historical date
- Reshuffled priorities for building slots for URG/PAR to make it less likely that the capital hits the 25 slot limit
- Paraguay river navy gets properly removed upon capitulation
- Fixed Oscar Escudero Otárola having his name backwards
- 'Reach out to Soviets' in the Argentina tree now checks if the Soviet Union is communist.
- Election event will now only fire if Brazil has completed 'Repeal the National Security Laws'
- Made the requirements to get Senor Hilter slightly easier.
- Added the correct Mechanized tech icons for Brazil
- Fixed an issue where Argentina and Chile could not use their modern small aircraft icon for carrier aircraft.
- Added a fix so you can now see that Prestes will become country leader with the 'Align with Moscow' trait.
- Added a check to Argentina's 'Support the Spanish Republicans' focus so it can only be taken if the Spanish Republic exists.
- some more portrait tweaks for minvervino, valentino and dartnell
- Added a check to the Juan Peron focus to make sure he is still recruited. Also added tooltip to event to make it more apparent he will not be available.
- Argentina can now peace out all UK allies when taking the Falklands
- Modified requirements for 'Revise Treaty of Roca-Runciman' in Argentina focus tree. Now accessible to communists after civil war.
- New Edelman portrait added and minor tweaks to previously existing portraits
- Fix for the Cisplatine war achievement not working.
- Fixed snake smoked achievement file names.
- Nerfed some of the recruitable population and supply in Communist Argentina
- Merged two instances of a duplicated Brazilian admiral/advisor
- Added fix to prevent elections from firing if Vargas is still country leader
- Eugenio Gomez portrait updated to show the right person
- Neglected state and Cangaco state modifiers will now be removed when another country owns the state.
- Fixed an issue that was preventing players from inviting countries to the Org of American states faction and made it easier to see how to integrate countries into US of South America.
- Updated some focuses that were not adding cores to new states.
- Added a fix to make sure that Support the Spanish Nationalists isn't available if they win the civil war
- Added chief of army for those without ToA for Argentina
- Made Fascist demagogue advisors available from game start in Argentina
- Brazil and Argentina now have full access to their respective intel agency icons
- Improved tooltip for Align with Moscow focus
- Beneath the shadow of the Triple Alliance and Rekindle old gripes no longer instantly white peace PAR/URG, giving them the option of continuing the war without being teleported back
- Fixed confusing Tooltip for blockade runner
- Peru can no longer go to war with Ecuador if subject
- Chile can no longer create their own faction is subject
- Mexico can no longer invite Peru to their faction if they are at war with Ecuador
- Normandy is now part of Chile's decisions to core France
- Manuel A. Rodriguez no longer has a duplicated localization key and is recruited when ToA is disabled.
- Added fix that prevents players from taking "Demand Compensation From Spain" if Spain does not own Equatorial Guinea
- Fixed an issue with Argentina's starting plane having the wrong icon.
- Fixed a bug where "TAG makes aggressive moves on Uruguay" event fires twice
- URSAL focus now grants cores to Brazil
- Fixed a bug which required reloading the game to show hidden Senor Hilter focuses


##################################
# AI
##################################
- AI now motorizes supply hubs if needed, even if they are controlled by allies or puppets
- The ai should no longer be as willing to send volunteers to the Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia for all of eternity.
- Limiting some italy ai strategies for only when in faction with germany

##################################
# Modding
##################################
- Removed the check on negative stats that disabled create_equipment_variant and AI equipment creation


##################################
# Stability & Performance
##################################
- Improve performance in resource computation.
- Various minor optimisations across the game (infrastructure etc)
 
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One thing I've noticed is that Argentina lacks an Illusive Gentleman, in addition to lacking flavor when creating an intellingence organization, is this an oversight?
It is not a huge deal, but it makes establishing an Intelligence organization as Argentina more punishing and less rewarding. Other than that I've found the DLC to be quite fun.
 
This varies a lot, our teams are pretty small but have a lot of different nationalities represented. I'm sure we can do a dev diary on the research process at some point, but in short we have dedicated research periods for each release; a [theoretically] unlimited literature budget, and a particular role (content designers) who have research and historicity as a key responsibility of their work. There is no role at paradox that would own responsibility for advising on a specific area.
That would be a VERY interesting Diary.
 
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For me perosnally:

- Chile is a fun country
- I don't like the fact that most MIOs seem to be from other nations, while I can understand Latin America has less then Europe, there are still others you could have used.
- Having a combined TOA event folder for Uruguay and Paraguay is bad, really hurts modding. It doesn't take much work to have one for Uruguay and one for Paraguay.
- I liked new leaders for Bolivia but it feels weird having so many for them while Uruguay gets no generals/admirals and Paraguay gets less political leaders (having a non-franco communist would have been good)
- Argentina is alright, bit lacking on the political leaders, the tree seems a bit sparce on focuses
- Haven't played Brazil yet
- Military focus tree is a bit bland and only gives bonuses, would like custom troops and more ships in my opnion especially with the Low Manpower.

Overall its a good DLC in my opinion, maybe a few issues but it adds stuff to other parts of the world which I like.
 
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My only complaint is the price really, which i think should have been more in line with previous country packs but it is what it is. There were some issues with some historical errors which members here in the community have pointed out, however overall i think it wasn't a bad dlc.

I browsed the reception of it on reddit mind you, and this is what i can't stand. The most annoying thing are the constant comparisons with mods as in "XYZ modded tree is far better than this worthless piece of junk Paradox sold us". I think this has been already explained somewhere by Arheo, but with as much leeway as modders have in churning out content, oftentimes with many of them working on one nation for a long time, i can't seriously compare it with what Paradox does given that a company has to follow a budget, time-constraints and personal constraints etc.
I'm not saying this out of love for a stock company like Paradox, however because i know how businesses function and because this behaviour doesn't even change in circles where i work and study and where one would think that customers are more professional like in the transport or car industry. Yes, customers in the logistics sector can sometimes be as oblivious to the reality of how their service is created as players of GSG games Lmao.

I'm not even talking about those who simply complained about why South America was touched in the first place when all they want to see is Germany, Germany, Germany and suggest that nobody in the community wanted a South America dlc. Of course there were a lot of people talking about the possibility of a South America dlc, not least because of the role that Brazil for instance played in WW2. And this tying into my second point, as i believe many of those who see themselves as history buffs but are solely concerned with Germany and the Soviet Union are in my opinion quite ignorant, or more ignorant than they would see themselves, when it comes to the timeline in which WW2 happened.

I am interested in the entire timeline of WW2 which also is something that HoI4 tries to portray. There are some who would wish for Hearts of Iron to become an East vs West game solely focused on the Eastern Front, but this is a GSG spanning the entire world. And the entire world has interesting stories to tell in the 1930s and 40s. First peopel complain that nothing happens in South America. But when content is added to South America to make it more alive and present historical events is somehow also bad haha.

Can't win with some people.
 
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Thanks for the communication.

How does the paradox team pick which major features (MIO’s, International Market, etc) are added?

If a major rework or overhaul of a country with a preexisting DLC (Japan, for example) occurred, would it be distributed as an update for those who own the DLC, or would it be a separate purchase? I ask as a rework of Japan would be extensive, and resource intensive, and it seems like a tricky situation.
 
I'm waiting for a day when paradox developers will finally understand that without mods their games would die quickly. People wants from you new mechanics because they are interesting and they give new life into game. New country packs will never be interesting like new mechanics because there are already tons of mods which add content to South America or any minor country that have generic NF tree and usually these mods are much better than your content because their creators have better sources, they working on them few years not months. You will always lose with mods in creating new content. But you will never lose with mods in creating new mechanics because modders cant do that ( in most cases ). Players know that, modders know that, but it looks like you dont know that and that's sad.
 
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Yeah especially with all the new developments in ai. Has that affected you guys at all? Or changed the way you do stuff?

A bit, I'd say. I think the technology is still very much in its infancy, but as a development tool it has some merits. The extent of what we use it for is pretty small; posing scenes, early concepting etc. It is abundantly poor at anything resembling research though.

We have no plans to implement generative AI directly in the game, though, at this stage.
 
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This was also the first DLC i didnt buy. My reason for it was that it doesnt include any mechanics aswell. AND THAT IS GOOD.
I dont want to spend X amount of money for a country pack with nations i dont care about only to have to spend a vaste majority of that DLC price on those countries.
So i want to say that its correct to keep country packs mechanic free and i wont have to buy and complain about it through negative reviews or even dropping the game after too many of those cases (which would be financialy worse for you then just producing country packs and keeping mechanics out of them)

Creating content packs is not being done at the expense of other things.
( i dont know why but i couldnt directly quote like i usally can from a post)

This is more of a half truth though. Yes it doesnt impact the Hoi4 "main" team. But one could argue that those Juno team members could be part of the main team and help it do things faster. They also cost wages so if they were not to deliver a revenue, then that would indanger Hoi4 as a whole.
Iam not of the opinion that the later part is the case. But the former part about them helping the main team to produce mechanical content faster is not unreasonable.

On the regional prices. I think some south american currencies were hit bye those changes if i remeber correctly. So yeah not supprising then.
 
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I think it’s a bit too easy for the monarchists to take over in Brazil. One of the focuses switches Vargas to a coffee baron. Maybe it should happen in the 1938 election so it feels more organic.
 
I bought the DLC even without a vested interest in South America and I’m pleased with it. I’m in two minds about country packs in general. Adding content to another part of the map is certainly a positive. Even playing outside the region the map feels that much more alive playing as the USA for example. More flavour is always good. The other side of the equation however is that content for nations less involved in the historical War will always feel lacking in the cool WW2 stuff I want from HOI. More tech/units, historical templates and equipment models might be a simple way to balance things out with the next country pack.
 
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Hello,

I believe this is one of my first messages on these forum but I am an avid HOI Player and Modder, I have really just one big question;

Why are focus branches like the French King in Chile or Hilter going to Argentina being added into the game? They feel a lot like something out of a very weird alt-history mod. I can sort of understand Hilter showing up in Argentina, as that is a pretty common conspiracy, but the French King in Chile does not really make any sense as the kingdom that's referred was claimed by a pretender to the throne from France, which is apparently enough credibility for a tree to be made for one of his descendants?
 
To be honest, most paradox players love map changes because we are all geography fetishists.
Your games are literally map games.

I am pretty sure it could be nice if you could open up thread (similar to Victoria 3) to add various details from different regions in world to get feedback. Pretty sure there are geography enthusiasts here that can suggest a lot.

Minority representation can be something very fun considering you can play with like Rapa Nui. It was very cool addition.
Same.

I loved the devs for finally adding Natuna Islands separate from Kuching, that one finally makes Batam Islands not alone anymore and can be paired with Natuna as their own "Riau Islands" state in my East Indies mod.

I do have prepared a bit more suggestions for the Southeast Asia region and how to represent them better, namely to draw more provinces there, shape them like the existing regions (princely states and provinces), and also adding impassable terrains for the mountain ranges. But at least, making the map look like what depicted in my mod is enough.
Southeast Asia mts old.png


This one is a complete province map for Southeast Asia region in my mod, but also with addition of planned 'balkanization' for Dutch East Indies. I haven't realized it in my mod due to my disinterest to draw provinces for it.
Southeast Asia mts.png


Redraw the provinces to make it fit with the IRL Indonesian provincial borders
Southeast Asia reworked mts.png
indonesian states rework.png

Redraw the whole map for Indonesia, using the 1941 Afdeelings and Provinces superimposed on the current regencies and cities territories
PS: Will you now please expand the Pacific War and give us Southeast Asia DLC later this year? ^_^
That's what i'm talking about, my dude!
 
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I'm impressed with the candor in this dev diary, bravo. Tbh, the general marketing around this release made it seem like there was more than just focus trees. Here's this big, splashy thing you can do now with South America, and oh, btw...here's a footnote that it's just focus trees. I was disappointed in the pricing as well, but that seems to be a Paradox-wide thing with all of the product lines, and it is not helping.
 
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I loved this DLC, I had a lot of fun invading all my neighbors and creating a great nation with all of South America.

Paraguay is, in my opinion, the most fun to play.

The only thing I didn't like about it was the lack of an option to do cores in South America with communist Brazil and the lack of content with Lampião in power, so I ask you to take a look at it.
 
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One thing I've noticed is that Argentina lacks an Illusive Gentleman, in addition to lacking flavor when creating an intellingence organization, is this an oversight?
It is not a huge deal, but it makes establishing an Intelligence organization as Argentina more punishing and less rewarding. Other than that I've found the DLC to be quite fun.
Hey! Glad you liked the content we have produced! As for Argentina, there are focuses that add boosts to the intelligence organizations (as well as create one) later in the tree! I appreciate your feedback though, and I'll be taking this into account for future updates / DLC :)
 
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I wanna start off by saying i really liked the DLC, its very refreshing for global conflicts that south america is something to keep an eye on.

I think a really good idea for future DLCs is to make small tweaks to countries that are not nessecerily the focus of the DLC.

A lot of people i know (me included) got very excited the day Yugoslavia got a slight rework on the BFB(Or it might've been BBA im not sure), or how Romania got a couple extra focuses, or when PRC started with 1 extra military factory. Small things like this give a refreshing feeling to "old" countries and make the game more interesting overall. Adding a new one or two decisions or focuses for 3-4 countries per DLC could do a lot more than a full content pack centered only around the tip of a content no-one ever reaches. (For example, the German focus tree could really use some spy bonuses considering Italy gets like 8 spy slots alone.)

I love the dlc overall, but my biggest issue is that all of the south american countries are late-game participants. By that i mean that most of them will not survive if they start to participate in global conflicts before 1941. The only way to stand a chance is to finish your entire industry focus tree before you do anything else, which for multiplayer is a horrible thing to do. I host -and have hosted- a TON of non-historical multiplayer games and found that the vast majority of games end in late-1942, which is not of considerable importance to any singleplayer perspective, but it is the reality of non-historical multiplayer that simply ruins most south american experiences.

I think the solution to this is giving all of the south american nations 3 research slots, or to make it similair to portugal, where the third research slot is unlocked maybe one or two focuses in.

Another reason why i think that is good is because from my perspective, the navy trees are designed to go one way: you buy foreign ships and refit them. Its incredibly hard to do anything else when the 3rd research slot is unlocked about a year into the game if you are lucky. Normally, countries pick 2 "early specializations" between getting a good industry, airforce, army, or navy. With the lack of research in south america you can pretty much only pick one until late game, which HAS to be industry.

I get that this is supposed to represent the ways in which south america lacked behind the rest of the world, but it is a huge difference from the baltic nations, or scandinavia, the focus trees of which seem to have been designed to be able to face off to most majors ALONE.

Consistency is very important, and i think if countries like these are forced to go the same way every time it becomes very boring very quickly.

Edit: Another thing that really grinds my gears is the amount of custom focus logos. Unless you've read them closely, it is no longer obvious which path is fascist, non-aligned, or democratic.
 
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I would like to express my gratitude for your work on Trial of Allegiance. Yes some players indeed felt dismayed over what seemed to be "skewed" priorities (like
"Why is South America getting unique content earlier than the rest of Europe or even Asian countries, who were active players in WW2?")
I think a lot of people with this complaint about ToA in particular may not be familiar with or are just straight up dismissive of the role Brazil in particular played in WW2 - Brazil had boots on the ground in Italy and were involved in some very heavy fighting for most of the Italian campaign. Sure, it was a small role in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think Brazilians would prefer their contributions to be forgotten.

The complaints were more valid when complaining about countries like Switzerland, Sweden, and the Baltic states, but even those were packaged with countries that did actively participate, just like Chile and Argentina were packaged with Brazil.
 
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