Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #66 - Patch 1.1 (part 2)

[Marirosa]

Is easier to implement a production method that only make explosives and no fertilizes.

I understand the logic on furniture+luxury furniture and textile+luxury textile. If you run 30 factories of cloth some will have more quality than others.

But i cannot substitute explosives with fertilizier or glass with chinaware. Let me change the production method so i only make what is demanded.

 

[Skycroft]

​

Things I am looking into for the future includes

• Gating some oil reserve potential behind tech to make it where deposits that were not found until more modern days are harder for the player to get to, but still possible.
• If Oil Supply is still too short - looking into adding more variation of production methods of balancing of input/output of those factories.
• Giving the Whale Oil Industry a bit more of a kick into gear in the early stages of the game.

Palm oil.

Palm oil was a major industrial lubricant and was a highly demanded import for the British during this time period. To the point that it was the major export of many West African nations.

If you want to expand more sources of oil in the game, it makes more sense then adding more whaling.

Oil Palms and the Industrial Revolution

Abstract. Africa’s expanding exports of palm oil during the nineteenth century were mostly consumed by European industries. Palm oil became an important su

academic.oup.com

 

[Mucsaccso]

See, this is why I love the community. My searches missed this. I will add it to the backlog of sources.

Then I would like to point out the first Hungarian oil extraction in 1937 done by Americans. See this university paper that tells you about everthing important related the Hungarian oil industry (watch out, clicking on the link downloads 296 kb).

Here's another article about this oil field and it's situation during WW2.

Fun fact that this oil production wasn't great, most of the oil was wasted until pipes were built - one of the smaller oil refineries were built on my birth village. Thus Americans during WW2 bombed us and I was always fascinated by bomb craters nearby.

 

[Mucsaccso]

Its been thought about - but making a state trait for that is kinda screaming "here be oil" when the resource has not yet been discovered.

Why would that be a problem? Most of us already know that Texas had oil, we don't need that "here be oil" for this. That's the drawback of historical games, if you have some knowledge, you probably know what to do to become the winner of the game's time period.

 

[NilsFabian]

I wish there was a way to substitute Opium in the game.
The amount I need is always way higher than the one I get.

 

[FleetingRain]

Its been thought about - but making a state trait for that is kinda screaming "here be oil" when the resource has not yet been discovered.

Can't you add state traits by event?

 

[grzelu]

From steam: Oil fields were ok, the problem is the AI unable of developing those

 

[PedroLuiz]

Why is rubber even a resource like coal, gold or oil? It grows on the ground, on plantations in certain regions around the equator (See your own map) like many other plants. The plant comes from Brazil, was stolen by the Brits and planted in their asian colonies in industrial scale to match the big demand they had. There is actually a very interesting story behind the cultivation of the rubber plants.

Let the game discover places where it can be grown, but just use the regular arable land if you do not have any special event or journal entry in place currently.

actually it was the french that stole it

 

[PedroLuiz]

since it rains heavily everyday in the forest. I don't think that pm is appropriate, idk...

no it doesn't

 

[Sbrubbles]

I finished my Ottoman/Turkey run. I had after around 1900 big problem with factories who have double output on goods.

Textile : 9K surplus cloth, 6k shortage Luxury.
Furniture : 11k surplus Furnite, 7k shortage Luxury Furnite.
Chemical Plants : 13k surplus Fertilize, 5k shortage Explosives
Shipyards : 9k surpluse steamers, 5k shortage on Ironclads

And big problem is you can´t always sell or buy from AI, because they have same problem. Biggest issue is Shipyards. Shipyards was nearly to collaps because steamers are so cheap and expensive ironclads can´t fix it.

Is there any plan to make there a change? Or build a slider for this buildings?

Yeah, I noticed in a recent playthrough that when you get lower class SoL above 20, Luxury good demand goes crazy, and the solution involves pumping out large ammounts of the regular good

 

[Aldahen]

"While we want Oil to be an important late-game resource, its current bottleneck as an available resource is a little too harsh to the player’s experience so we’ve expanded the discoverable oil fields in game."​

"If Russia and the United States collapse in game, 50%+ of the world's oil supply is locked behind their regression and the world suffers. We want to have historical credibility but also give players multiple avenues to pursue."

Having oil as a limited resource is one of the big fun factors of the game. It gives some areas more economical and strategic meaning.
You need the oil and you possibly need to go and get it --> this causes much needed justifiable conflict in the game.
Some times having oil and sometimes not having it also makes playthroughs different.

I think doubling the oil reserves takes the game in the wrong direction. In enforces the more simple game play of just managing you build queue and trade routes while doing map painting on the side. And every game becomes more similar, if you always have good access to all resources.

I hope you implement another solution sooner than later. I was actually even expecting this based on the Dev Diary #64 where Martin list the following as one of the possible future diplomatic features:
"Foreign investment and some form of construction in other countries, at least if they’re part of your market"

This could give the option of investing in a country that is otherwise incapable of taking benefit of their oil reserves.
A more technologically advanced country could go and develop the oil fields. There could be even different kinds of deals that can struct with the locals how the resulting fields are exploited.
This would give a new alternative to the current solution on simply conquering the area. While also offering an incentive for the investor to protect the country from invasion by others.

This could even yield more game play on the political side: some kind of change is law could nationalize the oil fields opposite to the foreign investors interest.

 

[PedroLuiz]

Is easier to implement a production method that only make explosives and no fertilizes.

I understand the logic on furniture+luxury furniture and textile+luxury textile. If you run 30 factories of cloth some will have more quality than others.

But i cannot substitute explosives with fertilizier or glass with chinaware. Let me change the production method so i only make what is demanded.

i think brine electrolyses almost gets there

 

[DominusNovus]

View attachment 911626
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[*]The gating of Oil Fields to only historically extracted areas is always tricky, if Russia and the United States collapse in game, 50%+ of the world's oil supply is locked behind their regression and the world suffers. We want to have historical credibility but also give players multiple avenues to pursue.

If you want it to be historically credible, then minimizing the loss of major oil producers to the world economy does not do that. All it does is add credence to the criticism that this game is a minimal consequence sandbox.

 

[Victor1234]

Then I would like to point out the first Hungarian oil extraction in 1937 done by Americans. See this university paper that tells you about everthing important related the Hungarian oil industry (watch out, clicking on the link downloads 296 kb).

Here's another article about this oil field and it's situation during WW2.

Fun fact that this oil production wasn't great, most of the oil was wasted until pipes were built - one of the smaller oil refineries were built on my birth village. Thus Americans during WW2 bombed us and I was always fascinated by bomb craters nearby.

The first Austro-Hungarian oil extraction was also done by Canadians. Thanks to them in 1909 Galicia was the third largest oil producer in the world.

Oil Empire — Harvard University Press

At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Austrian Empire ranked third among the world's oil-producing states (surpassed only by the United States and Russia), and accounted for five percent of global oil production. By 1918, the Central Powers did not have enough oil to maintain a modern...

www.hup.harvard.edu

 

[Tennou No Kamikaze]

no it doesn't

In the period i lived in the Amazonian rainforest it was almost a daily occourence. Every mid to final afternoon.

 

[PedroLuiz]

In the period i lived in the Amazonian rainforest it was almost a daily occourence. Every mid to final afternoon.

but there are still dought periods in July/August there iirc

 

[Tennou No Kamikaze]

but there are still dought periods in July/August there iirc

I woun't call dought, like we have in the semi-arid, it does rain quite less in that period, but it still rains.
Perhaps in drier regions of the forest? Now that i woun't be sure, i lived by the Amazon river so... Lots of water.

 

[Fawr]

​

What am I doing while this is being vetted? Why I am breaking ground into future balance changes in 1.2! As stated elsewhere on these forums, I am looking into the arable land balance of the game making changes to them. Since these changes have the potential to upend the world economy, I’m getting this branch settled early so we have as much time on our end to iterate on its balance. I will also take feedback from players upon 1.1s upcoming release, then look into tweaking other resources’ balance and such. There are always a few things to tweak!

Any consideration about making the last rubber plantation created the least productive (rather than most as is commonly the case now), or the last oil well, or the last rice farm?

The economist in me would like to see a supply curve that had marginal returns on new farms, mines, oil wells, and plantations decrease.

 

[Silens]

Any consideration about making the last rubber plantation created the least productive (rather than most as is commonly the case now), or the last oil well, or the last rice farm?

The economist in me would like to see a supply curve that had marginal returns on new farms, mines, oil wells, and plantations decrease.

Realism and gameplay/fun don't always go hand in hand. This is a prime example for such a case.

 

[Saraste]

You could have a mix of three approaches:

• Natural Rubber, as is now, with the highest yield
• Synthetic Rubber as lategame addition
• Artificial Rubber plantations that use arable land in fitting climate zones, but have lower yield

The approach of man-made plantations could also be applied to Wood, just to throw in the idea for you to contemplate on it.

Synthetic rubber (polyisoprene, the same thing that is in natural rubber) was actually synthesized based on a 1905 discovery as early as 1909 by Fritz Hofmann’s team at Bayer, still one of the largest chemical companies in the world! In 1910, Continental started to manufacture car tyres from Bayer’s synthetic isoprene industrually.

Also neoprene 1931 at DuPont and a myriad of others in 1935 by Walter Reppe at BASF.

I think Continental’s 1910 industrial applications demonstrate that synthetic rubber should be available in the game. It could perhaps be more expensive than simply harvesting from Rubber Plantations, perhaps a PM in a Chemical Plant turning oil into rubber? (As it happened IRL and still does, even the medicines you eat are generally ultimately made from oil)

History of Synthetic Rubber - LANXESS

In 1909, the chemist Fritz Hofmann succeeded in producing the elastic substance methyl-isoprene, and thus paved the way for the development of synthetic rubber. Hofmann conducted his research at the laboratories of “Elberfelder Farbenfabriken vorm. Friedr. Bayer & Co.” – a company whose...

lanxess.cn

Synthetic rubber - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org