either add a way to guarantee access to zro, or remove zro from the game

[amib]

psionic is the only ascension path that has it's bonuses and benefits tied completely to a strategic resource, and it's too easy to get locked out of access to it. if you can't secure a node of zro, you can't get any of the ship modules that use it, nor can you use the edicts that require it. i'm on the second game in a row where i got blocked in before i discovered a node to mine zro, and i have no way in my territory to access it and can't buy it on the galactic market.

 

[Cry_Havok]

On small maps it also just straight up might not spawn. Psionic and the spiritualist federation rely on Zro, and it being one of two resources that just might not exist on the map (the other being living metal) is just a design problem. At least Living Metal is only used for one nice but not mandatory edict, and the origin that does require it makes sure you have a deposit of it.

 

[Vastet]

Zro living metal and nanites are all too inconsistent and rare. I would love a method to directly manufacture the resources like motes crystals and gas. Can be gated behind late techs, and expensive to produce compared to other strategic resources. Even have a limit on how many manufacturing buildings you can have if any of this is desirable.
Argument can be made due to Zroni story that zro cannot be manufactured, but the same doesn't apply to the others. And really, if zro can exist then it can be synthesized.
Making them rng was intended to create variety in replaying the game so far as I can tell, but they are more a 'guess you don't get this rng benefit in this particular game' type of thing now. That isn't an effective replayability benefit. Not having these resources provides more stress than having them provides in happiness. It's really pointless.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Zro living metal and nanites are all too inconsistent and rare. I would love a method to directly manufacture the resources like motes crystals and gas. Can be gated behind late techs, and expensive to produce compared to other strategic resources. Even have a limit on how many manufacturing buildings you can have if any of this is desirable.
Argument can be made due to Zroni story that zro cannot be manufactured, but the same doesn't apply to the others. And really, if zro can exist then it can be synthesized.
Making them rng was intended to create variety in replaying the game so far as I can tell, but they are more a 'guess you don't get this rng benefit in this particular game' type of thing now. That isn't an effective replayability benefit. Not having these resources provides more stress than having them provides in happiness. It's really pointless.

Yeah, it works for motes / crystals / gas, where which ones you have easy access to impacts what you will build and how you will develop in the early/mid game. However, for resources that are key to specific end-game objectives it's a design at odds with Stellaris' "design your build from the start" approach.

 

[currylambchop]

A bit extreme to say ‘remove something from the game because it’s rare’ just add a way to get it w/o deposits (maybe sacrificing psionic pops)

 

[Zagreb 887]

As there is a building that produce nanites at the cost of SR, so it should be for Zro. The RNG of rares resources is an old feature, when Saïd resources behaved more like luxury in Civ games. It's pointless to have them work this way now.

 

[Forblaze]

As there is a building that produce nanites at the cost of SR, so it should be for Zro. The RNG of rares resources is an old feature, when Saïd resources behaved more like luxury in Civ games. It's pointless to have them work this way now.

Are you talking about the nanite transmuter? Doesn't that do the opposite?

 

[The5lacker]

The whole "Exotic Resources" system is in dire need of a rethink. Zro, Nanites, Liquid Metal, and Dark Matter are all just a mess. They do absolutely nothing most of the time, but because they're so inconsistent the few things that care about them also do absolutely nothing most of the time.

Honestly, I'm with you on the "Just get rid of it" front. The purpose they serve is a *bad* purpose. If you make them able to be synthesized, they're just normal Strategic Resources. If you make them too impactful, it becomes a frustrating die roll. If you make them not very impactul, it makes them a *stupid* die roll. There's no scenario where their core concept exists and they're also a good part of the game people enjoy.

 

[GloatingSwine]

They do absolutely nothing most of the time, but because they're so inconsistent the few things that care about them also do absolutely nothing most of the time.

They are *really* profitable to sell

But yeah, they basically exist in two quantities, zero and infinity. Either you have them and you can do everything you will ever need with them for the rest of time or you don't have them at all. (And the crisis using dark matter doesn't change that because the amounts used are so many orders of magnitude different that no sources other than chomping stars is relevant).

 

[The5lacker]

They are *really* profitable to sell

But yeah, they basically exist in two quantities, zero and infinity. Either you have them and you can do everything you will ever need with them for the rest of time or you don't have them at all. (And the crisis using dark matter doesn't change that because the amounts used are so many orders of magnitude different that no sources other than chomping stars is relevant).

Becoming the Crisis should really just use Crisistanium for all the relevance it has to any other Dark Matter source.

 

[Wendigo514]

Zro living metal and nanites are all too inconsistent and rare. I would love a method to directly manufacture the resources like motes crystals and gas. Can be gated behind late techs, and expensive to produce compared to other strategic resources. Even have a limit on how many manufacturing buildings you can have if any of this is desirable.
Argument can be made due to Zroni story that zro cannot be manufactured, but the same doesn't apply to the others. And really, if zro can exist then it can be synthesized.
Making them rng was intended to create variety in replaying the game so far as I can tell, but they are more a 'guess you don't get this rng benefit in this particular game' type of thing now. That isn't an effective replayability benefit. Not having these resources provides more stress than having them provides in happiness. It's really pointless.

In theory there's already a way to "manifacture" those goods but it's unavailable to the player. The Dimensional Fabricator building produces Dark Matter, Living Metal and Zro (but not Nanites for some reasons) however only for Fallen Empires.

I think it should be made available without this restriction if you manage to capture it (or if you are so lucky to roll it through Reverse-Engineering Arcane Artifacts), giving you one more reason to wage war against them.

 

[Lorenerd11]

if you can't secure a node of zro, you can't get any of the ship modules that use it

Buy from the galactic market.

 

[hxu04]

I also think rare resource maybe need some rework too, they are needed everywhere make them more like alloy that just manufactured inefficiently with only tier one building. I usually spam lab and those rare resource building on my most building slot at late game.

 

[Lorenerd11]

What annoys me personally is the inaccessibility of Living Metal.

There used to be a somewhat common anomaly that gave the research option and created a deposit, but now it never shows up for me, and even if I do find a Living Metal deposit in the wild, I never get the research option for it.

Dark Matter is better in terms of availability, you can naturally research it eventually and deposits are frequent enough, but it also has much less use than Living Metal and Nanites, since it doesn't even have an edict.

 

[PLSKICKME]

Tbh, i liked the old system. Its now no longer strategic just an advanced resource like CG, since you dont need to control anything for them.
Id really like if you have an abudance of lets say crystals, then the crystal edicts would have increased result(diminishing) for an upgraded upkeep.
Also, zro has a fixed spawn, i cant remember a single game where the spiritualist enclave didnt spawn, thats 5.

Zroni can be a bit tricky, but you can force it by only surveying habitable planets if that many exists and you are lucky enough.

And for the last, all you need is time, and make yourself a prospectorium. You spawn new deposits at tier3, which makes it available if not abundant. Thats plenty of chance for spiritualist empires to increase the chance of getting zro without wars

 

[Ezumiyr]

Ressources, and especially rare ressources need a revamp. It should work this way:
- you get access to a ressource, it unlocks an alternative path for something you could already do.
- if you don't have the ressource, you can still go "vanilla". It won't be less good, but it will be straigthforward: spend alloys, get military stuff.
- unique ressources for unique gameplay. "Spice" leading to early psionics and early psy jump drive, at the cost of being highly dependant on the ressource and becoming very spiritual. Some unique metal leading to regenerative boosts on ships, but it means you can't use shields that are as good, or it means your ships will be slower. Some fancy gas that boosts happiness and amenities, but your pops are slightly less productive. Each time you'd unlock a specific tech line by having access to the ressource - meaning that you can ignore it, and also that you'll need time to get full use of that ressources.

Currently, most ressources are just too easily obtainable to matter (I find myself selling them for cash to buy alloys way too often), or they are like zro and can ruin your plan, because you know you need it for specific playstyles.

 

[Thiend]

Tbh, i liked the old system. Its now no longer strategic just an advanced resource like CG, since you dont need to control anything for them.
Id really like if you have an abudance of lets say crystals, then the crystal edicts would have increased result(diminishing) for an upgraded upkeep.
Also, zro has a fixed spawn, i cant remember a single game where the spiritualist enclave didnt spawn, thats 5.

Zroni can be a bit tricky, but you can force it by only surveying habitable planets if that many exists and you are lucky enough.

And for the last, all you need is time, and make yourself a prospectorium. You spawn new deposits at tier3, which makes it available if not abundant. Thats plenty of chance for spiritualist empires to increase the chance of getting zro without wars

I don't mean to be... Well, mean, but this is exactly the thought process that the devs need to stop using for psionics. Becoming a subject of another empire should not be pseudo-necessary to be a psionic empire. Psionics should not be "the same end result as the other ascensions, except it's drastically harder to get it to the equal playing field it plateaus at."

 

[amib]

Buy from the galactic market.

you can't. if you don't have a resource node for zro or some other means to produce it like that job that you can get from an anomaly, the tech for the resource has astronomically low odds of appearing. if there are no zro deposits in the galaxy, which happens on tiny and small galaxies pretty regularly, the tech will simply never appear. if no nodes exist in the galaxy, no empire will get the tech to exploit that resource and it will never be available on the galactic market, similar to nanites and liquid metal.

 

[Lord Roivas]

You can at least buy the Zro assuming you get lucky enough to have it spawn or you even get the tech to begin with. Another big problem with this is if you have a very strong machine intelligence and the nodes spawn in their territory, they don't get the tech at all. Nanites however are different, you can't buy those in the market at all.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I think there should be a one-time shroud event that turns an uninhabitable and unterraformable planet you own into a shrouded world with a zro deposit, or which spawns (pulls out of the shroud) a shrouded world/asteroid with a zro deposit in your capital system. That should at least allow you to find the Zro Distillation tech and enable Zro on the market, unless you lose the system very quickly.