A Fan Discussion of BATTLETECH Free Update 1.9

[Prussian Havoc]

Alas Good @TostitoBandito and @LucidFugue, Mitch has been very clear on this topic on multiple occasions - HBS will not be Grandfathering Quirks onto pre-HEAVY METAL BattleMechs. However, HBS officially supports Community Modding of BATTLETECH specifically so items of work like Mech Quirks can be accomplished by a necessarily motivated and talented a Modder.

I too would have liked this to be different, but no, HBS is moving forward and investing their time, talent and other finite resources into other Gaming Projects. (And to be honest, I am glad they are. I should like to see a 2020 announcement of a 2021 game from HBS. :bow: )




EDIT: Doh! Ninja’d by Good @wolfhoundtoo! :bow:

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

I believe most if not all in this forum knows that HBS is moving into other projects and announced it wouldn´t give Quirks onto pre-HEAVY METAL BattleMechs.

However, if enough people ask, they might see as profitable to make that as draw for a paid DLC (given they´re with Paradox i doubt HM will be the last).

We already have the NO. But we can always hope for a change of heart.

p.s.: I do hope the Community Modding of BATTLETECH will produce those quirks. I´m just asking the devs as well.

 

[TostitoBandito]

Right, I'm well aware of their statements but I'm also willing to pay for more content if they wish to produce it. Or, they could just make a Clan-era sequel.

 

[Endgame124]

I’m hoping that they stay away from the quirks for good. It was annoying enough to remove them from the heavy metal mechs, I wouldn’t want to have to do that for even more mechs.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...Or, they could just make a Clan-era sequel.

I agree. : )

 

[Karanshade]

Did they mention a release time frame ?

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Did they mention a release time frame ?

Nothing has been announced. No.

The concept of “Soon’ish” is something we have learned to embrace with HBS and BATTLETECH.

When Update 1.9 has shaped up to the point that HBS is ready to announce a Release Date I am sure we will hear of it. :bow:

 

[Apocal]

Yes, so much this! I love the way the Heavy Metal mechs have such distinct personality due to their quirks. I know there's a risk of over-specifying a mech and pigeonholing it into a role, but isn't that kind of the point of variants in the first place?

It is also one of the best ways -- along with fixed engine sizes -- that you can actually make mechs meaningfully different, even after the good combinations of tonnage, movement profile and hardpoint allotment get filled out.

 

[Jolly Joker]

On variants:
The problematic and interesting thing is, that on one hand it's pretty difficult to add variants to some mechs, while on the other the new weapons allow variants that go far beyond 3025. For example: we've one Enforcer in the game, the 4R, which comes with an AC/10, a LL, and an SL. There are no variants before 3025, at least none that I know of. However - the 5D model introduced in 3050 swaps the AC/10 and the LL for an LBX-10 and ER LL plus an additional JJ - perfectly doable with what is in the game right now.

I'm very undogmatic when it comes to "lore" and "canon" - I tend to focus on the game and fun, if it's not too much of a stretch. With the inflow of future goodies being part of the game, future Mech variants would be possible as well, as shown above. The thing is, that THE PLAYERS can build a 5D just fine, if they want to, and I'd be more interested in upgrading the AI option than in backdowngrading the players here.

I could imagine that others see this different, though-

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although I am in no hurry for a Clan Era sequel to Battletech, I will say this...

Playing a Flashpoint involving an elaborate plan to capture a Mad Dog (Vulture) to further the development of the Bushwacker would be interesting .

Anyway...1.9s new mech list is what most interests me ATM. There seems to be a lot of variants suggested. I'm curious to see what makes it in.

 

[Axterix13]

I'm personally more interested in the vehicle variants than the mech ones. The same few tanks, all the time. Strikers early, always Strikers. LRM 10, SRM 6. *yawn* Oh, look, high level vehicles. Could it be Demolishers, Shreks, the Carriers, Manticores, or Goblins? So little variety, so they get old fast. Variants for them will help a ton. I mean, that same old, same old is why one of the first things I created a mod for was adding more vehicles.

 

[Axterix13]

It is also one of the best ways -- along with fixed engine sizes -- that you can actually make mechs meaningfully different, even after the good combinations of tonnage, movement profile and hardpoint allotment get filled out.

The problem is that they made quite a few of them a bit too powerful. Marauder, obviously, but also the likes of the Warhammer and Anni. 20% more damage? Nuts. Especially when combined with HM weaponry. These are completely different beast than say the Rifleman's, Phoenix Hawks, Vulcans, or Assassins (coils not withstanding). Which isn't to say that the Assassin's isn't powerful, especially in the right situation, but that's a big part of it... it is situational. I've still got good reason to use a Blackjack instead, and that's quirkless. The Assassin's adds flavor, gives it a bit of focus, role-wise, yet it doesn't overwhelm everything else.

 

[Unruly Marmite]

The problem is that they made quite a few of them a bit too powerful. Marauder, obviously, but also the likes of the Warhammer and Anni. 20% more damage? Nuts. Especially when combined with HM weaponry. These are completely different beast than say the Rifleman's, Phoenix Hawks, Vulcans, or Assassins (coils not withstanding). Which isn't to say that the Assassin's isn't powerful, especially in the right situation, but that's a big part of it... it is situational. I've still got good reason to use a Blackjack instead. A Warhammer though? Why even bother having the Black Knight (non-SLDF) exist?

Well...because the Black Knight has better hardpoints? More maximum armour? Superior firepower at long range even with the quirk? I mean, yeah the Warhammer quirk is strong. But it's still 120 damage long range for 72 heat. A Black Knight in Large Laser range has the same heat but 130 damage and, I think, better heat sinking? Without the quirk the Black Knight outperforms the Warhammer (6R, the 6D is much, much better) by a significant margin and even at close range they're about equal, assuming they aren't in support weapon range.

Now if you said that the Warhammer makes the Catapult K2 obsolete, then I'd completely agree. But the Warhammer absolutely does not obsolete the Black Knight. Stock, I should say. Once you start bringing in custom builds all bets are off.

 

[Axterix13]

Now if you said that the Warhammer makes the Catapult K2 obsolete, then I'd completely agree. But the Warhammer absolutely does not obsolete the Black Knight. Stock, I should say. Once you start bringing in custom builds all bets are off.

Then I think it is pretty safe to say that, unless you're the AI, the bets are off. Players will look at both mechs, and they'll make a Black Knight out of their Warhammer, because a "War Knight"'s 20% extra damage beats the tiny bit of extra armor a Black Knight can hold.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Marauder is also mostly powerful due to the head capping capability with an exceptional pilot. If it wasn't for that, then it would be mostly a step up from the Cat K2 firepower wise.

 

[Axterix13]

The Marauder is also mostly powerful due to the head capping capability with an exceptional pilot. If it wasn't for that, then it would be mostly a step up from the Cat K2 firepower wise.

It'd still be more than that. Headcapping, yeah, you really want that 9 tactics. But shooting at torso is very viable and doesn't require that. Furthermore, it offers a 10% reduction in damage taken for your entire lance. And if you have HM, well, the projectile hard points are quite a big step up over the K2.

 

[Icewraith]

On variants:
The problematic and interesting thing is, that on one hand it's pretty difficult to add variants to some mechs, while on the other the new weapons allow variants that go far beyond 3025. For example: we've one Enforcer in the game, the 4R, which comes with an AC/10, a LL, and an SL. There are no variants before 3025, at least none that I know of. However - the 5D model introduced in 3050 swaps the AC/10 and the LL for an LBX-10 and ER LL plus an additional JJ - perfectly doable with what is in the game right now.

I'm very undogmatic when it comes to "lore" and "canon" - I tend to focus on the game and fun, if it's not too much of a stretch. With the inflow of future goodies being part of the game, future Mech variants would be possible as well, as shown above. The thing is, that THE PLAYERS can build a 5D just fine, if they want to, and I'd be more interested in upgrading the AI option than in backdowngrading the players here.

I could imagine that others see this different, though-

5th Jump Jet likely requires an XL engine and possibly other goodies to get up to 5/8 speed with the same payload. Slapping an LB-X and ER Large Laser on the 4R Enforcer does not result in a 5D.

Right now the level 2 construction tech drawbacks such as reduced critical slots and engine side torso destruction are ignored since there are only a few lostech mechs (Atlas II, Highlander 732B, Black Knight 6B, Griffin “2N”, Bull Shark).

Adding a bunch of level II tech mechs is a colossal balance landmine, I would be shocked if that happened.

There are some low-hanging fruit that don’t even need a separate chassisdef, just a mechdef:
Jenner -7F
SRM/JJ Trebuchet (on second thought may have an extra medium laser)
PPC Grasshopper (technically out of timeline, but basically a mod that happens when the mech’s large laser gets destroyed and there is no replacement laser available but there is a spare PPC lying around)
2 LRM 20 Stalker

Adding these as separate chassisdef would unnecessarily complicate the salvage pool IMO.

Slightly less low-hanging fruit (can be done with current chassis if you don’t care about weapon placement):
Wolverine 5M (use 5K, extra medium laser in the wrong arm)
Several Marauder variants

Hardpoint configuration exists on MWO model and no variants in game (will almost certainly be in 1.9):
Grand Dragon
PPC Zeus
Marauder variant

Problem children: (no level 1 tech variants IIRC)
Enforcer
King Crab
Firestarter? (Suggestion: “walking warcrime” inferno missile variant)

We don’t have one and it’s kind of weird:

Hunchback with missile hardpoints. (Speed 4 medium “stock” missile boat for the opfor, players can already use the Centurion)

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I know it is beyond the scope of Update 1.9, but since #QUAD2020 is looking like a pipedream, I’d really love to see HBS’s BATTLETECH Live Support Team take a shot at the THUG-11B during 2020. :bow:

 

[Jamey]

1.) HBS continues its work to improve BATTLETECH’s Convoy AI. This aspect of the game has proven to be an elusive target. Multiple attempts to improve Convoy AI to the point it represents a reasonably proficient Convoy Operator and Allied Entity have been made to date. However challenges remain and HBS next attempt to refine Convoy AI will arrive with Free Update 1.9

This is good news. Convoy AI has improved greatly (either that, or I’ve gotten better at leading it along) but it is still a bit quirky at times.

3.) 16 New Mech Variants will be introduced.

4.) 8 New a vehicle Variants will be introduced.

This is exciting.

I’d like to see some lighter vehicle variants. Perhaps the all LRM Striker and some Scorpion variants (the SRM variant would spice it up - a close range threat you can readily maneuver to stay out of range for if you’re careful).

If it weren’t major LosTech, a Gauss Demolisher would be truly evil.

Beyond that, I’d like to see the MAD-3D, which is the energy boat Marauder.

I’d also love to see them add an SLDF light mech variant. That would give us an interesting late game option for a light mech in a heavier lance.

 

[Endgame124]

It is also one of the best ways -- along with fixed engine sizes -- that you can actually make mechs meaningfully different, even after the good combinations of tonnage, movement profile and hardpoint allotment get filled out.

The permissive hard point configuration here is the real problem with distinctiveness, not really the quirks. Significantly restrain the hard point system and you would have meaningfully different chassis. Had HBS gone with Heavy and light hard points, along with typed missile hard points, Mechs would be more than a skin for a weight class.

while things won’t change in this iteration, I’m hoping battletech 2 really reigns in the hard points instead of going the quirk route