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EU4 - Development Diary - 20th of August 2019

Good day and welcome to another EUIV Dev Diary. This week we shall be tackling the Ecumenical matter of Catholicism in the game.

Catholicism is a bit of a funny one when it comes to religions in EUIV. When the game came out, it was one of the few religions that actually had mechanics attached to it, which helped in making it an attractive choice, both in terms of power for your nation, and flavour for your campaign. Over the many years of EUIV's updates and expansions, many religions across the world have been given their own mechanics and flavour, leaving Catholicism in the lurch. Its mechanisms have dulled in the face of those from other Christian denominations, and it is often blasted as a poor pick of religion for a budding European power, when Protestantisms and the Orthodox and Coptics are such tantalising alternatives.

In the upcoming European Expansion, we want to empower the Catholic faith, and bring a sparkle back to the appeal of remaining faithful to Rome, as well as allowing the Papal States themselves to thrive in the power and authority as being head of the faith, and really feel the impact of the faith being torn apart when reformation hits.

Firstly, as anybody knows, the root of all power is money. To this end, the upcoming expansion will be introducing the Papal Tithe. There will be a treasury in the game, not owned by any nation but belonging to the Curia itself.

As will be a common theme, numbers and UI are far from final

20th Aug Tithe.jpg


The Curia Treasury fattens up based on the number of Catholic nations in the world. The money is not taken from the nations, but rather is added to the Curia based on the amount of Crown Land held by the Clergy Estate in these nations. Nations who pass the Dissolution of Monasteries will stop their lands from contributing to the Tithe.

The Tithe can also be directly paid into by particularly pious nations. Nations can buy indulgence which pays directly into the Tithe, and in addition to feeling relief from avoiding purgatory, can enjoy added Papal Influence and temporary defence from Excommunication.

The Curia Treasury can of course be dipped into, and the privilege few who can do so are the lofty Curia Controllers themselves. Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury. Papal Bulls are unique actions that affect all of Catholicism:

  • Illius qui se pro divini: Enables Crusades after the Age limit is imposed.
  • Apostolicae Servitutis: 50% Cheaper Curia Powers (Levy Church Tax, Proclaim Holy War etc..)
  • Praeclara Carissimi: -5% Development cost
  • Immensa Aeterni Dei: -10% Embracement cost, 25% Institution Spread
    Cardinals will spread institution if the institution has been embraced in a province of another Cardinal or the capital of the Curia(Rome).
  • Libertas ecclesiae: +20% Imperial Authority Growth
    Available if Emperor & Catholic Empire. (Not White Peace)
    All Catholic Nations in HRE get +15 towards approving HRE reforms
  • Dei Gratia Rex: +0.5 Yearly Absolutism & -2 Unrest in Catholic Provinces & -25% Drill Decay
Costs for these are a base of 1,000 ducats from the Papal Treasury, and increase as Reform Desire does. If devout Catholic nations wish to maintain the ability to empower their entire faith in the face of growing Reformation Desire, then they will have to expand Catholic lands or force convert their heretical neighbours.

The Pope himself has also been empowered with the option, but not the obligation, to play as a Kingmaker within the Catholic Faith. Cardinals will still spawn within Europe, but the Pope has the choice to directly appoint cardinals to other nations out of his own pocket.

20th Aug Appoint Card.jpg


The Papal State can assign Cardinals to nations who he thinks will best serve Catholicism. The cost for doing so is relative to the target nation's development and number of existing Cardinals. The Papal State will enjoy added influence to becoming the Papal Controller themselves through this action, and the target nation will have a longstanding boost to relations towards the Pope. Of course, the Papal States can assign Cardinals directly to their own land, but this action will come with a boost to their corruption. To make the traditionally invisible Cardinal mechanic somewhat more omnipresent, Cardinals are now visible on the (placeholder?) religious mapmode.

Finally the Pope can himself add directly to the Tithe with his own treasury. This may be of use for a particularly expansionist Pope who dismays other Christians by declaring themselves Kingdom of God. This Decision will no longer disable Curia mechanics.

Italy and Catholicism remain focus points for the upcoming Update and Expansion, and we're not done talking about them. When the situation in Europe gets a bit spicy thanks to theses being nailed onto doors, there may be more popping up, but for now that's [REDACTED]

Next week, we'll be talking about something completely different, and hopefully welcome news to those who have been wondering what's happening with that 64-bit support we were talking about earlier in the year.
 
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No mention of addressing the conversion issues killing off Catholicism in Europe by 1550?

What's the restriction regarding Cardinal placement? Can I blanket the entirety of Europe in 1444 with Cardinals if I have enough cash?
 
Is there any change how the Curia Controller is voted? Currently it's just a big roulette, since is imo the biggest "ugh" factor of catholic.

It seems we have slightly more influence on it as we can trade money for papal influence. I assume it's still a dice roll though.
 
While nice, I feel as if these changes don't address the issues Catholicism faces.

Is the Curia still RNG?

Will the Reformation still go unchecked unless RNG spawns it in a bad location and a player aggressively tries to eliminate CoR?

If Catholicism is to be buffed, the Reformation needs a nerf or a rework. Right now there is very little counterplay outside of warfare or that one edict, and it's not very interesting.

Are crusades going to be at all useful?
 
Each Curia Controller can pass one Papal Bull in their tenure, which is an action the exclusively costs money from this Curia Treasury.

So does this mean that if you held control of the curia over the reign of multiple Popes, you can only pass one of these Papal Bulls or can you pass a new Papal Bull after the old Pope dies but you still regain control of the Curia? I'd rather not get stuck with 5% dev cost reduction for 50 years when I might need the yearly absolutism or Excommunication CB at different points. If the former point is the case, it seems like the system encourages losing control of the Curia, but the bonuses associated seem too powerful to give up, especially with the new stuff you've announced.
 
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Is there any way for the Curia controller or the Papal states to use the money in the Tithe apart from the bulls? Is it possible to use it to build up Rome and the Vatican or to support nations that fight heretics or heathens in a crusade?
 
Can non European nations finally get cardinals. Otherwise Catholicism is much worse than other forms of Christianity. There's less incentive for nations like Japan, Ming, Kongo to convert to Catholicism with events aside from getting PUs, alliances.
 
Well, not too much information to tell if it's good or not.

Still some missing pieces:
- how Cruia controller is determined? Is it still a competition beetwen Catholics. Is it still most beneficial to be the only Catholic country in the World to be always Curia controller? This is bad mechanic.
- what Cardinals does? Papal Influence like before?

As for now only Papal edicts are added (on which you have no control over unless you're Curia controller) for minor boost, and Cardinals are assigned manually (what for? Is there any bonus? Or just another unnecessary click)
 
It seems we have slightly more influence on it as we can trade money for papal influence. I assume it's still a dice roll though.
I would love to see an interface similar to the HRE's interface, but with cardinals instead of electors. A nation could then set a preferred cardinal for next pope. Each cardinal would vote for their preferred successor pope and nations would be be able to influence cardinals' choices directly (bribery, e.g.) or indirectly (same culture, cardinal seat in same nation, etc.) to match their preferred choice. Some balancing act would be necessary to stop player nations from owning the Curia 100% of the time (for instance, negative reasons to vote for a cardinal from same nation as previous pope), but it would certainly feel better than the current Papal Roulette.
 
Could we by any chance get an iconic red cardinal hat to represent them on the religious map rather than the current bishop's mitre?
1280px-Den_Hieronimus_vum_Peter_Paul_Rubens.jpg

This is the hat I'm talking about. It's called galero and is in use since at least 1245-the First Council of Lyon.
 
Very interesting. I love how you're integrating the new estate mechanics with new and preexisting Catholic mechanics. It'll make the game feel much more alive, and has already made me feel much more excited about the new direction estates are being taken in.

@DDRJake Will Catholic nations still be able to become the permanent Curia controller via shenanigans? Please say yes.
 
Is the mechanism of choosing Papal Controller the same as before?

I must admit, I never liked it, it is just too random, and you can be ninja outbid in that holy auction when you are not looking.
Yeah, that being changed is one of my main hopes for this DLC.
 
Can we now see the Papal State mission tree? If I recall correctly, it was said that we can't see it until the new curia mechanics get revealed, so now would be ok.
 
These changes are cool, but a little lackluster. Other Christians have better bonuses. Little morale here, little discipline there, etc. The idea of all Catholics contributing together for some bonus is cool, but Coptic is already doing it. They are gaining real bonuses by holding key provinces together.
As my friend pointed out, it would be really cool and flavorful to have big military bonuses tied with a crusade mechanic against other religions. That would be something, because Protestantism is still better.