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HoI 4 Dev Diary - Manchukuo

Hello and welcome back to another Dev Diary. This week we will look at the last unrevealed focus tree for Waking the Tiger: Manchukuo.


Manchukuo is perhaps one of the weirdest players in the Chinese Civil War. Formally an Empire led by an Emperor, it was also a puppet. Despite owning a large chunk of China, it was never able to field the numbers the other Chinese factions brought to the fight. Despite being ruled by the last legitimate Son of Heaven, no one particularly liked this government.


Capture_intro.JPG



As such, your position at the start of the game is precarious at best. You have practically no support from the population, your industry base is mostly working for the Japanese, your army is somewhat less than befitting your station and to start with, there are bandits running around the country causing havoc.


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So your first step has to be the pacification of the countryside. You can do this by either maintaining a military presence in the relevant areas or spending some manpower and infantry equipment in a more aggressive campaign to hunt them down. You should hurry, though, as the bandit raids will damage your infrastructure and industry if you let them proceed too long.


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Once the country is reasonably pacified, you face a more difficult choice: Either you decide to be an obedient little puppet or you start down on your path to independence and restoring the Empire that has always been yours by birth.


We developers, of course, withhold any judgment about which path you take.


Should you choose to remain a mere pathetic lapdog of the Japanese, you sell your dignity and freedom very dear indeed, as that branch gives you a much more powerful economy. Five year plans allow you to shape the direction of your industry for the next, well, five years, giving you the option to focus on industrial growth, military production or aircraft development. You will gain more infrastructure and factories along the way.


Capture_fyp.JPG



Finally, by allying with the Kwantung Army, you can position yourself as the natural leader of China from the Japanese perspective and get all captured Chinese territories turned over to you. Only then can you gain some autonomy and finally arrive at an equal standing with your supposed “Brother-Emperor”.


Should you, however, decide to take a stand for your freedom and independence and assert yourself, you will have a much harder job ahead of you as your imperial masters will not invest nearly as heavily into your state.



hoi4_120.jpg


More than that, in order to gain your independence, you will have to be patient and gain some small concessions here and there. The next fundamental choice for you is whether you want to turn your country into a society dominated by Manchus, or if you will make good on the propaganda of five equal races under one banner. Each will give you different advantages.

Afterwards, you will at last prepare for the war of independence against Japan (we actually had to rewrite our war system to allow you to be at war with both Japan and China, while they are also at war with each other). However, this branch will allow you to eventually get rid of the penalties from low legitimacy as you climb the ladder to restore your Imperial rule all across China. Once you break free from your Japanese overlords, you will once again be known as Qing China. Conquering the rest of China allows you to claim the Mandate of Heaven and announce yourself to the world as The Chinese Empire (2.0)


hoi4_121.jpg



Much like the other main Chinese factions (Nationalists and Communists), Manchukuo has access to the shared focus tree that allows them to build up their industry and develop new technologies. Owing to its position in the world, the only viable paths at game start are Germany and Japan, but breaking free will give you the opportunity to reach out to new partners.


That is all for this week. There will be a dev diary next week, but we won't tell you what it is just yet (we are working on a number of things that may or may not be done in time for the dev diary). At World War Wednesday today, our intrepid team of Daniel and Gabriel will continue to try and conquer China while making some of the worst jokes known to humanity. Tune in at 16:00 CET and ask your questions about the focus tree: https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive


Rejected Titles for this Dev Diary:

China - under new MANagement

This Focus tree sponsored by Burger Qing

MAN-spreading all over China

Henry Puyi and the Dragon Throne

This focus tree will make a MAN out of you

This DLC is basically MAN-datory

Hail to the Qing

Coming up with rejected titles took longer than writing the rest of this diary
 
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Looks pretty interesting. I'll certainly be giving this a go once the dlc comes out. The only question is before or after China...?
 
Well, it is the kind of politic that may change over time. Especially for China, which is a major.

Well we don't know if China actually gets major status or if it's going to remain a minor.
 
Can Imperial China become democratically aligned and be a constitutional monarchy? In DH playing as America, I always end up invading Manchuko and then China. It would be interesting if I could support an independent Manchuria to help me in such an effort.
 
Will it be possible to make your capital Bejing after you restore the empire?

This would be an interesting feature for any nation.

No, not that. Not the ability for any nation to move its capital to Beijing. :)

But it would be useful for a nation to be able to move its capital.

Perhaps there'd be pre-requisites or a cost.
  1. Base cost of 100 PP.
  2. The new capital would have to have the same amount of victory points.
  3. For every difference in Victory points between the old and new capital, the player has to pay an additional 50 PP.
  4. _______ (what pre-requisites or costs would you add?)
 
Can Imperial China become democratically aligned and be a constitutional monarchy? In DH playing as America, I always end up invading Manchuko and then China. It would be interesting if I could support an independent Manchuria to help me in such an effort.

From my knowledge of the era, Puyi was very much deadset on being an autocratic ruler no matter what (until his reeducation after the war at least). Manchukuo's puppet government was made out of a mix of Qing loyalists and previous members of the Fengtian Warlord Clique, both of which were also not exactly predisposed to democracy or populist rule. The Fengtian clique controlled Manchuria up until the group was destroyed after Japan's 1931 invasion, and the members of the Fengtian Clique that weren't monarchists or had nothing to gain from the situation, such as Zhang Xueliang, joined the Nationalists (Marshal Zhang's one of the new army leaders for Nationalist China, btw).
 
many left wing japanese students and officers were sent to manchuria to stop them causing trouble in japan. There they worked to create a model government and use the brand new nature of its statehood to try out new ideas.
historically this failed and became nothing.
But could it be used as starting for a democracy or constitutional democracy under figurehead empire route?
maybe puyi staying a prisoner even after independence, but a prisoner of his own government acting in his name rather than the japanese.
 
Cheers for the DD Archangel and the extra info Podcat :D. Manchukou looks like a very interesting playthrough indeed - but not one for the faint of heart :eek:. Love the extra depth this'll add to that neck of the woods :).

Hail to the Qing

Lots of great ideas, but this one was my favourite - the god of puns is smiling on the HoI4 team at the moment :).
 
This looks cool and exposes just how UNDER-developed more serious players like the two Spains currently are in HOI4.

I REALLY hope the next expansion or patch finally brings some flavor to the Spanish Civil War, which if you start in 1936, should be THE keystone global event that invites the rest of the world to dip its toes into a proxy war and then shapes the rest of the timeline.
 
This looks cool and exposes just how UNDER-developed more serious players like the two Spains currently are in HOI4.

I REALLY hope the next expansion or patch finally brings some flavor to the Spanish Civil War, which if you start in 1936, should be THE keystone global event that invites the rest of the world to dip its toes into a proxy war and then shapes the rest of the timeline.

There's so much to cover, really.

Let's see:
  • Separate infantry sprites for the Republic and the Nationalists.
  • Unique sprites for the Army of Africa and the International Brigades. Please?
  • Volunteers across the globe for both regimes
  • Two Spains should be in separate locations - the Nationalists start controlling all of Spanish Africa prior to airlifting themselves over. Meanwhile the Republicans have Spain...but not for long.
  • The tensions leading up to the war. Case in point: in the last month up to the war, to both political sides, seeing a socialist or monarchist walk past you in the street was the equivalent to seeing a serial killer stroll past you. That's how bad it got.
  • Infighting - Anarchists vs the rest of the Popular Front for the Republic, Carlists vs Falangists for the Nationalists
  • This whole thing should be treated like the biggest proxy war for the world. I mean, even China managed to get volunteers over, while the Chinese Communists claimed they would've sent a brigade over, had it not been for Japan.
  • So much alternate history for SCW. So many possibilities...
 
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Regarding the issue of a restored Qing being Fascist vs Non-Aligned, the problem is that the much-simplified HOI4 ideology system (as opposed to previous HOI games) is inadequate for dealing with countries other than the major powers (USA, Germany, USSR, UK, France). To use an example, historically the Estado Novo regime in Portugal and Francoist Spain were very close ideologically, but in game the former is Non-Aligned and the latter Fascist.
 
This looks cool and exposes just how UNDER-developed more serious players like the two Spains currently are in HOI4.

I REALLY hope the next expansion or patch finally brings some flavor to the Spanish Civil War, which if you start in 1936, should be THE keystone global event that invites the rest of the world to dip its toes into a proxy war and then shapes the rest of the timeline.
The devs probably haven't figured out how to implement Republican Spain being Democrats AND Anarchists, not Communists.

HOI4 is focused on multiplayer, not historical accuracy, for now. Otherwise Denmark, which surrendered in six hours, Netherlands, declared neutrality, surrendered after 5 days, and Belgium, after 18 days ordered to surrender by Leopold III, would have massive penalties to unity.
 
Well China just had 2 plane projects, Japan has all its art already. It is just the infantry sprites for Red China, National and Warlords.

I cried tears of joy when I saw the beautiful, beautiful Chu X-P0 sprite.
 
Unique sprites for the Army of Africa and the International Brigades. Please?
Yesss. Regulares and Foreign Legionnairies!

Also a younger portrait for Franco (like with Mao) and portraits for the generals of course. Let's hope they'll choose the important ones this time (looking at you, DoD).
 
They actually did that. Costs 10x more to take territory not held by your faction. Problem is SU doesn't care and just pays the extra points.

Thanks for the info, ten times you say! Damn I did not know that, so much for 'artificial INTELIGENCE' I guess. That was one hell of an expensive desert the Sovjets bouth themselves. Too bad that soft limits like this just do not work that well when the AI is involved. I usually hate hard limits in games to steer it in a realistic and/or fun direction but in this case it might be worthwhile for PDS to add some harder restrictions (like you need to have a naval base in reasonable range, a land connection or at least a few soldiers anywhere near the territory you'd like). Else I don't see a scenario where the AI don't just take what they fancy no matter the cost or the reasoning.
 
@Archangel85 What I wonder, does Manchuko get Cores on China, if they stay obedient? Especiially after the stream yesterday, I thought about that.

When I play Japan, I want to take of China for myself, but instead of creating an inland puppet of Reorganised China, I just want to give the Land to Manchuko, I mean I promised them, and they are the rightful puppet-ruler after all. I wish I could also given them everything inland, like also Mengoku, after the Chinese War.
 
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I've taken an interest in the SCW. What would you see as the alt history possibilities?

Hum...
  • A victorious Republic would be very convenient for the Allies. 1940 could see the British and French simply retreating straight into Spain to regroup and rebuild before storming into Italy or Vichy France around 1943. They'd take far fewer losses, I think, at least if Spain can hold against the incoming Germans and Italians. Plus, French refugees would pour into Spain, and maybe de Gaulle could set his base and troops there rather than in Africa.
  • Post civil war, whichever Spain wins out and chooses to join WW2 will be a key player in the Mediterranean and the African front.
  • If Spain went fully communist or anarchist, how would they rule? What would their policies be?
  • The fate of the International Brigades for a victorious Republican Spain. They'd probably be developed into shock troops or elite special forces (mountaineers is ideal), six-battalion light infantry with plenty of support companies. With all the XP racked up in the civil war, they would be a real asset in combat. And a fun idea: the International Brigades are Spain's go-to choice for volunteers in other conflicts.
  • Soviet policies if Spain goes democratic. Would they continue supporting it, or would they push for a Republican Spain? Many historians have noted Stalin saw little potential in a communist Spain. He could help train and advise their military, and get rid of Trotskyists and anarchists to help the PCE strengthen, but he didn't seem to be interested in them ruling
  • The position of the USA. While France knew it couldn't (the government nearly split in half on the civil war) and Britain's government cared little for the Republic, the US was a little different. FDR was a strong Republican sympathizer, and only too late did he decided to withdraw the arms embargo. Perhaps they could have taken a different position and helped Spain in some way - logistical or sending first aid rather than direct military intervention.
 
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