Hearts of Iron IV - 38th Development Diary - 18th of December 2015

[misterbean]

What am I missing here? How is this really any different from HOI3 subs?

The main difference is that resources are no longer stockpiled, so any successful sub campaign should see an immediate drop in production efficiency. In effect there might be a very slim chance to actually "starve" UK into submission. Or, at least, I hope so.

 

[Rhel]

Can ships other than Subs also have a torpedo attack stat? Afaik, loads of destroyers and even quite a few cruisers were equipped with, sometimes pretty impressive, torpedoes.
I know for sure the japanese loved to put torpedo tubes on damn near everything smaller than a BB.

 

[Axe99]

Can ships other than Subs also have a torpedo attack stat? Afaik, loads of destroyers and even quite a few cruisers were equipped with, sometimes pretty impressive, torpedoes.
I know for sure the japanese loved to put torpedo tubes on damn near everything smaller than a BB.

There were even two CVLs that served in the conflict that had TTs, and a number of BBs and CAs as well, and I'm very much hoping that we can have (or at least mod in) torpedo attacks on most ships (although I probably wouldn't bother with CVLs!)

 

[Denkt]

Can ships other than Subs also have a torpedo attack stat? Afaik, loads of destroyers and even quite a few cruisers were equipped with, sometimes pretty impressive, torpedoes.
I know for sure the japanese loved to put torpedo tubes on damn near everything smaller than a BB.

Yes, other ships can have torpedo attack. In HOI4 both destroyers and light crusiers will have torpedo attack as well.

 

[GsusNSV]

The main difference is that resources are no longer stockpiled, so any successful sub campaign should see an immediate drop in production efficiency. In effect there might be a very slim chance to actually "starve" UK into submission. Or, at least, I hope so.

Podcat stated that you won't feel an immediately effect. So there is a small internal stockpile.
(It is really only that you wont have daily alternating ressources. A single sunk convoy ship won't scramble your production)

Edit:
1. If there i no Stockpile of ressources, the AI "ships" every day ressources and if u boats kill some of them i lack this ONE DAY on ressources it had delivered?

1. it averages it out actually so there are no quick jumps, you slowly start drainign the resource (so there is a slight hidden stockpile actually behind the scenes)

 

[JamesJameson]

So does anybody know if there are two supply routes running through the same region, but split off later down the line and go to two different places, which supply route does it pick? Or do both supply routes get a negative effects?

 

[TheDungen]

Hi everyone, its Friday which means its time for another development diary. This one is all about our underwater friends: The Submarines!

The role of the submarine in Hearts of Iron IV is the same as it was historically: To hunt down enemy shipping and not have to challenge a superior enemy fleet directly to hurt them. Its a particularly attractive choice as Germany who will likely be facing Britain and the massive Royal Navy.

Each nation can research 4 different submarine models, each more powerful and harder to catch.

It is also possible to create variants of these using field experience where you can improve their torpedo attack, stealth or engine speed.

Submarines, like the rest of your ships are affected by doctrines. Here is a screenshot showing the submarine focus branch in the Trade Interdiction doctrine.

It improves the ability of submarines to detect other ships and their organization, but most importantly it improves their coordination while convoy raiding. Whenever a submarine in the fleet detects and enemy convoy this coordination value will control how quickly other submarines can gather and help in the attack (and also get away when cavalry arrives) so it is important for someone focusing on getting the most out of their submarine force.

As mentioned earlier the goal of the submarine is primarily to attack your enemy's economy by preying on convoy routes. For example:
- Attacking convoys along an enemy trade route will deny them foreign resources.
- A nation split across the globe like Britain must convoy home resources to their capital area from many places in its empire to use them, making them vulnerable to submarine raiding.
- When receiving lend lease, convoys carrying equipment can be sunk and will be lost forever.
- When deploying troops on foreign theaters of war a nation must ferry supply and reinforcement equipment to them. By taking out these convoys their troops will be weaker and easier to defeat.
- Troops being transported or during a planned invasion may be attacked leading to them being wiped out or severely weakened. You always want to be very careful and guard your transport routes before sending troops somewhere in war time.

Each convoying route will have a visible efficiency shown in a tooltip indicating on average how much goes through due to attacks and other lack of convoys. Any convoy attacks are shown with indicators on the map that you can check out after battles with a report and will give you a hint on where the enemy is concentrating its raiders. Its advisable to put ships on convoy escort missions to help defend against submarines and other threats.

Most ships are not capable of effective sub hunting, especially not capital ships so having destroyers and light cruisers with a fleet is important for defense and being able to deal with the submarines. Submarines may also be spotted by aircraft so keeping your air superiority in areas will help as well.

In the naval battle above German submarines have managed to sink a large amount of convoys and are about to slip away into the night from the Royal Navy (who have arrived in time to save the last 5). Note that they have an indicator on them that tell you that the enemy does not know their exact location and can't attack them.

This was the last diary before Christmas and we will be returning again after much needed rest with diaries on January 8th!

Any chances we may see a similiar system for privateers in eu4? When they finally get around to remaking the horrible naval system of that game.

 

[LUISVIGO]

One thing that bothers me from the ships technology screenshot, is that apparently all the warships built before 1936 are treated as the same.One Example the 5 Revenge class, the 5 Queen Elizabeth class and the 2 Nelson class battleships belonging to the Royal Navy should be considered as Class I Battleships (built around 1922 or before) regardless of perfomance, firepower, armor, speed and design. So, from what I see, it does not really matter what you historically had at the beginning of the game, they convert everything to a generic I Class warship. It is simple, but hardly accurate.

 

[Raptor83]

One thing that bothers me from the ships technology screenshot, is that apparently all the warships built before 1936 are treated as the same.One Example the 5 Revenge class, the 5 Queen Elizabeth class and the 2 Nelson class battleships belonging to the Royal Navy should be considered as Class I Battleships (built around 1922 or before) regardless of perfomance, firepower, armor, speed and design. So, from what I see, it does not really matter what you historically had at the beginning of the game, they convert everything to a generic I Class warship. It is simple, but hardly accurate.

Devs might use "variant" systen to adjust their stats.

 

[TheDungen]

Hmm how about Peace time? Will we be able to use subs for covert actions like piracy or sabotage?

 

[misterbean]

Podcat stated that you won't feel an immediately effect. So there is a small internal stockpile.
(It is really only that you wont have daily alternating ressources. A single sunk convoy ship won't scramble your production)

Edit:
1. If there i no Stockpile of ressources, the AI "ships" every day ressources and if u boats kill some of them i lack this ONE DAY on ressources it had delivered?

Thanks. I missed that piece of info.

 

[Mannstien]

Didn't see much about scouting/recon or fleet engagement but assuming those are the other doctrine lines. Would be interesting to run the IJN Sub fleet as convoy raiders instead of fleet subs/recon to see how that would affect the Pacific.

 

[LUISVIGO]

Devs might use "variant" system to adjust their stats.

Even so, there is a very wide gap in performance between a Queen Elizabeth, or even more, a Nelson Battleship, and let's say a Cavour Battleship, or a España Battleship. There were huge differences in capabilities that I don't think that could be covered just merely with some tweaking of stats.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

One thing that bothers me from the ships technology screenshot, is that apparently all the warships built before 1936 are treated as the same.One Example the 5 Revenge class, the 5 Queen Elizabeth class and the 2 Nelson class battleships belonging to the Royal Navy should be considered as Class I Battleships (built around 1922 or before) regardless of perfomance, firepower, armor, speed and design. So, from what I see, it does not really matter what you historically had at the beginning of the game, they convert everything to a generic I Class warship. It is simple, but hardly accurate.

This point has been raised several times, but the devs have never commented it. As the naval tech tree has yet to change, it must be assumed that they do not care about this, and consider it a trivial matter.

 

[blue_yonder]

Each convoying route will have a visible efficiency shown in a tooltip indicating on average how much goes through due to attacks and other lack of convoys.

This is a great idea, and means we can plan out our convoy defences strategically rather than just reacting like a bumble bee whenever something gets sunk.

 

[Axe99]

This point has been raised several times, but the devs have never commented it. As the naval tech tree has yet to change, it must be assumed that they do not care about this, and consider it a trivial matter.

I'm fairly sure it was addressed at one point in a recent thread, with Podcat saying it's impossible to please everyone (which it is). You know my thoughts on the matter (and I'll deffo be changing it in the naval mod, possibly the first thing I do as it's easier to get the tech tree structure right first, then add ships in, rather than the other way around), but I can understand why they've taken this path as well.

 

[Adonnus]

- When receiving lend lease, convoys carrying equipment can be sunk and will be lost forever.

Yesss.

Question though, can we as Germany for instance sink neutral shipping going from USA to UK if US is providing lend lease, though not at war with Germany? And will this lead to war? I am thinking of basically "unrestricted submarine warfare" here.

 

[blue_yonder]

Yesss.

Question though, can we as Germany for instance sink neutral shipping going from USA to UK if US is providing lend lease, though not at war with Germany? And will this lead to war? I am thinking of basically "unrestricted submarine warfare" here.

That's a very good question. 'Unrestricted' means anything which helps the enemy gets sunk, regardless. Assuming the word is given its proper meaning, I'd guess the answer to your question is yes, but only when un-sub-warfare is reached on their doctrine tree and not before. Since IRL the US didn't declare war despite the sinkings, perhaps it will lead to worse and worse relations, more WT and yet more LL to Britain, but not necessarily a DoW unless the scales tip over.

 

[208]

this coordination value will control how quickly other submarines can gather and help in the attack (and also get away when cavalry arrives)

Now I want Dolphin Cavalry.

 

[TexasJaeger]

Weird question here. So would it be remotely possible even if it is a slim chance. Could a convoy slip past a large number of submarines or surface ships. That is to say can ships slip past a blockade/submarine area without having to have multiple escorts or naval supremacy in an area?