Hi all! Tuesday has crept up on us again and it's time for another Horse Lords dev diary. The topics of the week are the map extension, new modding features and probably some other tidbits that I think of as I go along... First off, we did not increase the size of the base map again as we did for Rajas of India, since the most interesting regions were already on the map due to our funky twisted map projection. In fact, even the Orkhon valley and the old khaganate capitals of Karabalgasun and Karakorum are on the existing map. So we simply added some more counties where there was previously only wasteland; 27 to be exact, spread over 8 de jure duchies and two new kingdoms. The addition of these areas required some new cultures as well: Uyghur, Khitan, Sogdian and Tocharian (and of course a lot of new characters in the database to cover the historical periods.)

It is a dynamic region where the hegemony of one nomadic tribe was soon overthrown by another, but it is actually possible to play as proper Mongols (Khalkha) even in 769, in the region of Ötüken (though they start out paying tribute to their Uyghur overlords.) In the 769 start, we represent the region as predominantly Manichean and Buddhist (though the reality was more complex.) The Tarim Basin is perhaps of special interest since the Silk Road passes through it. That's it for the map; on to modding!

Here are some items of particular interest:

• All scripts under the common folder now use a proper folder structure for easier modding (i.e. more than one file can contain data)
• You can now script your own triggers and effects (using existing ones) for easy reuse
• Consistent handling of modded classes; changes are now always added to the modded entity (e.g. a culture or an on_action field), rather than replacing it.
• The new government system allows you to override or add to the special gameplay rules of religions and cultures

The complete modding change log is a bit... obtuse, but I'm including it here anyway.

Spoiler

- Added geographical regions that can be checked in triggers if a title or province is contained in a region defined in map/geographical_region.txt. These regions are static throughout the game and are more reliable than using de-jure triggers for events that you want to affect specific places.
- Bookmarks now uses folder structure
- Combat tactics now uses folder structure
- Disease now uses folder structure
- Job actions now uses folder structure
- Job titles now uses folder structure
- Triggered modifiers now uses folder structure
- Added scripted triggers
- Added scripted effects
- Added create_tradepost effect
- Added folder structure to defines
- Added folder structure to modifier_definitions
- Added MAX_WARDS_PER_GUARDIAN to defines
- Added missing commandline argument "debug" to show debug logs
- Possible to append to cultures from several files
- Possible to append to on_actions from several files
- Added trigger technology_can_spread, checking whether technology can spread in the province.
- Added effects set_special_character_title, remove_special_character_title.
- Can now specify a CB to not be displayed in the diplomatic mapmode
- Culture can now decide if you are allowed to raid or not
- Added external province type in map definitions, will not generate a border or text and can be 1 pixel big
- Added global movement speed modifier
- Now can force contract on specific governments which will bypass the opinion limitations using new government system
- Now possible to disable courtiers from receiving MTTH events in defines
- Added effect set_government_type.
- Governments can be modded in the decisions folder.
- Geographical regions can be modded in the map folder.
- County-, duchy- and sub-region tags can now be used to define island- and geographical regions.
- Added region trigger.
- Added flags reinforcing [yes/no] and reinforce_rate_multiplier to the spawn unit effect.
- Added flag maintenance [yes/no] to the spawn unit effect.
- Added flag looting [yes/no] and can_toggle_looting [yes/no] to the spawn unit effect.
- Added trigger is_allowed_to_loot.
- Added on_action on_became_imprisoned_any_reason, that triggers whenever a character becomes imprisoned for any reason.
- Added flag adventurer [yes/no]. Adventure titles work just as temporary titles but do not get destroyed automatically when the holder is in peace. Instead, they are destroyed whenever the holder gains another title or when the holder dies.
- Added effect set_looting and set_can_toggle_looting for units.
- Added character text GetHusbandWifeOpp.
- Added triggers realm_levy_diff, reverse_realm_levy_diff, max_realm_levy_diff and reverse_max_realm_levy_diff.
- Renamed the realm_manpower trigger to realm_levies.
- The break effect now also properly affect tooltips.
- Added effects any_unit, any_army, any_fleet, random_unit, random_army and random_fleet.
- Added trigger any_unit, any_army and any_fleet.
- Added flag seafarer in culture and religion files, helping the AI to determine if coastal provinces is preferred when raiding.
- Added trigger is_seafarer, checking if either the culture or religion have the seafarer flag set.
- Added trigger is_island, checking if the province exists in island_region.txt.
- Added event target most_participating_crusader, used to get the most participating non-theocracy attacker in a war.
- Added on_action on_divorce, which fires whenever a character gets divorced regardless of the reason.
- Quick triggers are now properly checked when you fire an event from another event.
- Added triggers is_[law/government/decision/targetted_decision/title_decision/settlement_decision]_[valid/potential] with parameters key, character, title and settlement.
- Added effects and triggers any_dejure_liege and any_defacto_liege.
- Added event target defacto_liege_title.
- Added effect destroy_settlement.
- Added effect make_primary_settlement.
- Added match_settlement to the spawn unit effect.
- Added event trigger 'log'.
- Earmarked units can now also use the $CULTURE$ parameter.
- Added trigger completely_controls_region.
- Added any_title effect.
- Added effects make_capital_holding and revoke_capital_holding.
- Added trigger is_nomadic.
- Added government trigger.
- The Spawn Unit effect can now take saved event targets as parameters.
- Added nomad flag to the create_title effect.
- Added effect convert_to_nomad and convert_to_fort.
- Added flags ai_fabricate_claims to religion groups.
- Added flags attacking_same_religion_piety_loss and uses_decadence to religions. Decadence will be used if the religion AND government of a character is scripted to use decadece.
- Added flags hire_cost and maintenance_multiplier to retinue subunits.
- Added event scopes [strongest/weakest]_clan_vassal, [strongest/weakest]_clan, [strongest/weakest]_clan_vassal_except_me and [strongest/weakest]_clan_except_me, determined by the number of empty holdings they hold.
- Added event scopes [most/least]_prestigious_clan_vassal, [most/least]_prestigious_clan, [most/least]_prestigious_clan_vassal_except_me and [most/least]_prestigious_clan_except_me.
- Added event scopes [most/least]_populous_clan_vassal, [most/least]_populous_clan, [most/least]_populous_clan_vassal_except_me and [most/least]_populous_clan_except_me.
- Added triggers clan_satisfaction, total_manpower, unused_manpower, raised_manpower, max_manpower, manpower_growth, population, max_population, population_growth, population_and_manpower, max_population_and_manpower and population_and_manpower_growth.
- Added effects manpower and population.
- Added trigger uses_decadence.
- Added nand-trigger.
- Not-triggers will now do a script assert if it contains more than one trigger (where the use of nand- and nor-triggers are recommended to be used instead), but will work as previously.
- Added trade_post_has_building and trade_post_has_any_building triggers.
- Added trigger is_settlement_type_allowed.
- Added effects create_fort, destroy_fort, seize_fort, random_fort and any_fort.
- Added triggers any_fort, num_of_forts, num_of_forts_diff, has_fort, fort_has_building and fort_has_any_building.
- Added event scope trade_post_owner.
- Added trigger has_castle, has_temple, has_city and has_tribal.
- Added trigger has_settlement_construction.
- Added triggers is_[law/government/decision/targetted_decision/title_decision/settlement_decision/trade_post_decision/fort_decision]_[allowed/potential].
- Added triggers num_of_[subrealm/demesne]_[castles/cities/temples/tribes/empty_provinces].
- Added trigger holding_diff.
- Added effects set_title_landless, set_title_adventurer and set_title_nomad.
- Added forbidden_raid_target opinion modifier, which disallows looting against that character.
- Job action script can now properly use the various job title event scopes.
- Added triggers has_feud_with and any_feud_rival_clan.
- Added triggers clan_opinion, reverse_clan_opinion, their_clan_opinion, clan_opinion_diff and reverse_clan_opinion_diff.
- Added is_high_prio flag to minor titles, determining whether an alert should be shown or not if that title is available to grant.
- Added triggers num_of_king_titles_in_realm, num_of_duke_titles_in_realm, num_of_count_titles_in_realm, num_of_baron_titles_in_realm, num_of_titles_in_realm.
- Added effect unsafe_give_minor_title.
- Added modifiers clan_sentiment, max_manpower, max_manpower_mult, max_population, max_population_mult, manpower_growth and population_growth, currently applicable on characters and the capital.
- Added modifiers retinue_maintenence_cost and horde_maintenence_cost, currently applicable on characters, family palaces and the capital.
- Added is_active_trigger to buildings. Any modifier from buildings that are not considered active will not apply until the is_active_trigger is properly validated.
- Added modifier global_winter_supply, currently applicable on the capital.
- commander_limit can now be scripted in buildings for capital settlements, increasing the number of commanders a ruler can have.
- moved_capital_months_mult can now be scripted for capital buildings and modifies the delay for how often one can change capital, if their government allows for more frequent switching than once per lifetime.
- The set_defacto_liege effect now works on titles as well.
- Added on_actions on_battle_won_owner and on_battle_lost_owner.
- Added modifiers global_trade_route_wealth, global_trade_route_value, global_tradevalue and global_tradevalue_mult, applicable on the capital of holders of a trade post.
- Trade post buildings will now also have an effect in the capital settlement, not only the family palace.
- Fixed bug where the targetted decision filters realm and sub_realm did not properly check the court of the top liege or the current character.
- Added trigger religion_allows_female_temple_holders.
- The spawn_unit effect will now spawn units on any other unit if there is no other valid location (instead of not spawning the units at all).

So, modders delight! What else have I got for you? Well, here's a selection off the top of my head...

• You can now, at any time, move prisoners between the Oubliette, House Arrest and the Dungeon.
• Banishment of landed characters has been changed so that they are only forced to abdicate to their current heir. You no longer get to seize all of their titles.
• Tribal counties are now more viable targets for raiding (there is more loot there)
• The names of opinion modifiers are shown in effect tooltips (instead of just "Opinion Changes by -10", etc)

That is it for now... More to come next week!

 

[SovereignGrave]

I think there will be manicheans starting in the tamil basin. I hope they make a seperate gnostic branch for them now that there will be so many manicheans!

Tarim Basin. Tamils are a people in India.

 

[Lord_P]

Tarim Basin. Tamils are a people in India.

That's what I was hinting at. Migrating the Manicheans from the steppes to Tamil Nadu would be quite the challenge!

 

[Rrr]

Which means next game at best. A rotating sphere like google earth would draw massive amounts of processing power.

Actualy just rotaing bitmap is trivial task that does not requires high graphics or CPU

 

[Joel M Bridge]

The Mongol Horde arrival events have been revised. If a mongol ruler becomes powerful enough he or she can claim the title of Genghis Khan. This will signal that the mongols have been united early and this will block the invasion event of the 13th century. Unless this happens Temujin will now arrive in the corner of the map instead of his sons in the early 13th century.

So is it possible for player to kick start the event know?

 

[DKM]

Will the steppes still be playable without HL?

 

[Groogy]

Will the steppes still be playable without HL?

Yes they will revert to tribes if you don't have HL.

 

[Aoki4444]

Yes they will revert to tribes if you don't have HL.

Damn, gotta buy Half Life

 

[Lord_P]

Damn, gotta buy Half Life

You'll also get mechanically better nomads if you buy HL2, but unfortunately they stopped releasing more DLC for that.

 

[Spelf]

The people have spoken

We want the cup

 

[Thracian]

ötüken?
it is a city exists in turkic mythology

 

[Sparticulous]

That's what I was hinting at. Migrating the Manicheans from the steppes to Tamil Nadu would be quite the challenge!

ah, sorry! I meant tarim basin. I need to proofread more.

 

[Finnway]

I didn't even know what /s was until I looked it up but I realised rather quickly that particular post was written with tongue lodged securely in cheek.

A lot of people on this forum and others have been complaining that ever since India was added, India hasn't affected their games at all. They then use this line of anecdotal reasoning to say that if China were added, it would have very little impact on gameplay in areas that aren't China.

With the addition of the Silk Road, Mongolian nomads, and Tributaries in this expansion, I find it near impossible to say for certain that China would have no effect on Medieval Europe.

Seriously? I KNOW the argument his post was referencing. I'm saying his post is a rediculous straw-man because no-one is claiming anything with that level of stupidity. I'm dumbfounded so many people misinterpreted the meaning of my post.

 

[Lord_P]

ah, sorry! I meant tarim basin. I need to proofread more.

Not a problem.

 

[Prince Ire]

Actually Galileo was persecuted because he was anti-papal... and because he didn't had good evidences for his theory. Actually... there were some medieval priests and scholars who try to claim heliocentrism. But they don't had enought evidences to replace the geocentrism. (And yes with medieval knowledge and without helpful things like binoculars etc it was possible to scientific explain geocentrism).

Heck, it wasn't until the late 18th/early 19th century (can't remember exactly) that the biggest criticism against the heliocentric theory -- if the Earth moves around the sun, why don't we observe paralax in the stars-- could be answered. There is paralax in the stars, it's just that before the invention of increasingily high powered telescopes and the camera, it was too faint to be observed. Prior to this, the only reason to pick the heliocentric model over the model that said, "Jupiter and the other planets move around the Sun, the Sun moves around the Earth" was that the heliocentric model's math was simpler.

 

[TheDungen]

Heck, it wasn't until the late 18th/early 19th century (can't remember exactly) that the biggest criticism against the heliocentric theory -- if the Earth moves around the sun, why don't we observe paralax in the stars-- could be answered. There is paralax in the stars, it's just that before the invention of increasingily high powered telescopes and the camera, it was too faint to be observed. Prior to this, the only reason to pick the heliocentric model over the model that said, "Jupiter and the other planets move around the Sun, the Sun moves around the Earth" was that the heliocentric model's math was simpler.

Actually there is a very good reason not to belive that. If that was the case the outer solar system should be able to come between earth and the sun which it cannot only venus and mercury can.

 

[Thure]

Actually there is a very good reason not to belive that. If that was the case the outer solar system should be able to come between earth and the sun which it cannot only venus and mercury can.

Do you even read any geocentric models? All of this is explained by them. The sun is between Venus and Mars. Only Venus, Mercury and the Moon are between the Sun and the Earth. All other planets are farther away than the sun. So howshould they move in front of the sun? The son was not the outermost part of the system. And there were very complex models to explain everything. But all this models are very plausible. Especially since it was not possible to disprove them in the Middle Ages (you need better telescopes etc)

 

[TheDungen]

Do you even read any geocentric models? All of this is explained by them. The sun is between Venus and Mars. Only Venus, Mercury and the Moon are between the Sun and the Earth. All other planets are farther away than the sun. So howshould they move in front of the sun? The son was not the outermost part of the system. And there were very complex models to explain everything. But all this models are very plausible. Especially since it was not possible to disprove them in the Middle Ages (you need better telescopes etc)

Why would I read geocentric models? It's just plain wrong an most people agreed so a long long time ago. Aren't the science deniers of today bad enough that we have to concern ourselves of the ones in ages past? There are climate sceptics out there that needs to be convinced who has time for dead geocentrists? And complex model is usually in science a good indicator that you're wrong. Occams razor: the simplest explanation that you cannot refute is the most probable one to be close to the truth. Also You may be able to build systems where "if it was this it'd show up like this" but post newton we knew why the planets moved as they (angular momentum makes the world go around) did and that proved heliocentrism on a level that geocentrism had no way of dealing comparing too. Sure you could probably find a convoluted way to explain away that too, which is why the old saying goes "If you're trying to prove something you will always be able to make the facts fit". Which is why science does not try to prove it's theories it's trying to disprove them.

 

[Thure]

Why would I read geocentric models? It's just plain wrong an most people agreed so a long long time ago. Aren't the science deniers of today bad enough that we have to concern ourselves of the ones in ages past? There are climate sceptics out there that needs to be convinced who has time for dead geocentrists? And complex model is usually in science a good indicator that you're wrong. Occams razor: the simplest explanation that you cannot refute is the most probable one to be close to the truth. Also You may be able to build systems where "if it was this it'd show up like this" but post newton we knew why the planets moved as they (angular momentum makes the world go around) did and that proved heliocentrism on a level that geocentrism had no way of dealing comparing too. Sure you could probably find a convoluted way to explain away that too, which is why the old saying goes "If you're trying to prove something you will always be able to make the facts fit". Which is why science does not try to prove it's theories it's trying to disprove them.

You should read the models to understand them. You wouldn't make wrong conclusions about geocentrism if you would know what the arguments of geocentrisms were. Like your statement: 'Actually there is a very good reason not to belive that. If that was the case the outer solar system should be able to come between earth and the sun which it cannot only venus and mercury can.' which is easily explained. The sun is between Mars and Venus. That's an easy explanation. Not very complex.
And none could disprove geocentrism.

 

[TheDungen]

You should read the models to understand them. You wouldn't make wrong conclusions about geocentrism if you would know what the arguments of geocentrisms were. Like your statement: 'Actually there is a very good reason not to belive that. If that was the case the outer solar system should be able to come between earth and the sun which it cannot only venus and mercury can.' which is easily explained. The sun is between Mars and Venus. That's an easy explanation. Not very complex.
And none could disprove geocentrism.

No because geocentrism wasn't a theory since it had no underlying cauality (if the planetary bodies are laigned like this why are they aligned like this and why do they move as they do, heliocentrism can answer that geocentrism as far as I've seen thus far cannot). Making a statment that isn't refutable does not a theory make. It was basically on the level of saying there is/is not a god. That's not a theory because it's not a statement that cna be disproven if wrong. Look you boys may know history I don't deny that but science is what I do for a living.

 

[stilgarpl]

This thread again? Didn't we discuss Galileo and geocentrism few months ago?