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Le Coût de la Gloire - France in the Great War - WW1 MP AAR

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DarthShizNit said:
It's Hearts of Iron...what on earth kind of diplomatic bargaining could you possibly do? Nor do we care about suspense, we care about game play.
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France: Psss...Italy...if you join our side, you get Tirol and Croatia!
Austria: Psss...Italy...if you join our side, you get some French colonies, Nice and Monaco! Enjoy gambling your taxpayers' money away!

Italy then decides who has the better offer and joins whichever side looks more likely to win. Remember Napoleon's comment that any war involving Italians usually ends with them on the opposite side.

There is a lot more "game play" for France or Austria to worry about if Italy could suddenly backstab them and invade. Have you ever played Diplomacy?
 
Big Blue Blob said:
France: Psss...Italy...if you join our side, you get Tirol and Croatia!
Austria: Psss...Italy...if you join our side, you get some French colonies, Nice and Monaco! Enjoy gambling your taxpayers' money away!

Italy then decides who has the better offer and joins whichever side looks more likely to win. Remember Napoleon's comment that any war involving Italians usually ends with them on the opposite side.

There is a lot more "game play" for France or Austria to worry about if Italy could suddenly backstab them and invade. Have you ever played Diplomacy?
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The problem is this is Heart of Iron and the game ends after the war. There is no reason for the Italian player (or anybody really) to care about post war gains, it's not like they would benefit you in any way.
Making offers and then trying to weight those offers would be completely artificial considering there is nothing beyond the war, if you want some diplomacy you need to play a game that lasts longer than 4 years (like EU4 or vicky 2).

Cataphractoi said:
I assume there were some big surrounds in the East. Did you actually play through to your own demise, or give up early? I'd like to at least see an end update explaining the closing events of the war. Perhaps a post from whoever was on Russia, to explain how he lost 1/3 of his army to Austria-Hungary.
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Apparently even the Russian player is not sure where he lost those guys so I don't think he could post anything interesting. For France it just started to crumble and would have died under sheer numbers next session so we all decided to call it quits and take a break instead.
 
Big Blue Blob said:
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The thing is, I've actually tried to propose gentlemen's agreement between Italy and Japan but I've gotten convinced that this just leaves an awful number of variables for everyone and the HoI system itself is against it, as you can decuct who will neutral countries join simply by watching their alignment and having both Japan and Italy join the same faction would result in a severe imbalance.

In the end, you may argue all you want but even vanilla HoI MP is pretty straightforward in this and stuff like Soviets and Germans fighting alongside against Allies just won't happen in any decent MP group.
 
I still have not heard why it is wrong for Italy to backstab somebody or jump in as in history. As in the game Diplomacy, these possible betrayals and changing alliances add depth to the game, as well as making it more historical.

Is there usually some element of role playing an actual leader here with ambitions and expectations to fulfil, rather than just killing and conquering for teh lulz?
 
Big Blue Blob said:
I still have not heard why it is wrong for Italy to backstab somebody or jump in as in history. As in the game Diplomacy, these possible betrayals and changing alliances add depth to the game, as well as making it more historical.

Is there usually some element of role playing an actual leader here with ambitions and expectations to fulfil, rather than just killing and conquering for teh lulz?
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The difference between Diplomacy and HOI is that in Diplomacy your goal is to conquer everything and be the sole winner, while in HOI there's no real goal. It would be a lot of fun to have a game with actual diplomacy and it's something that should definitely be tried, but it doesn't work if only Italy has that choice.
 
Big Blue Blob said:
I still have not heard why it is wrong for Italy to backstab somebody or jump in as in history. As in the game Diplomacy, these possible betrayals and changing alliances add depth to the game, as well as making it more historical.

Is there usually some element of role playing an actual leader here with ambitions and expectations to fulfil, rather than just killing and conquering for teh lulz?
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Because we have balance to care about, that's why it's wrong.
 
Gen. Marshall delanda est.
 
Why was he banned?

And more importantly, when will the next session start? I need muh WWI AARs.
 
Should start in roughly two weeks time. Also looks like we'll be using the 1910 start this time around, so it's likely going to be very interesting.
 
Will there be a new thread or will you just use this one?
 
New one since I'll be playing a new nation most likely.
 
Ooh, exciting. I can hardly wait! I'm particularly happy with you playing Serbia: I have always been really into Ottoman history, and find myself paying more attention to the war on the Middle-Eastern Front than maybe it deserves.

While I can see where BBB is/was coming from, its obvious the HOI3 is not the place for these types of negotiations. There's simply no incentive to not offer the outside powers everything they could possibly want: the post-war situation is of virtually no concern to the players, unlike in reality. The place for these types of multiplayer diplomatic negotiations is Vic2. For example, on reddit, a multiplayer group organized a real Congress of Berlin, where all the players negotiated how the continent was to be divvied up, with secret alliance deals and threats of war and everything. That is where this stuff belongs.
In HOI3, the goal has to be balance.
 
You should join the Central Powers.

Cataphractoi said:
Ooh, exciting. I can hardly wait! I'm particularly happy with you playing Serbia: I have always been really into Ottoman history, and find myself paying more attention to the war on the Middle-Eastern Front than maybe it deserves.

While I can see where BBB is/was coming from, its obvious the HOI3 is not the place for these types of negotiations. There's simply no incentive to not offer the outside powers everything they could possibly want: the post-war situation is of virtually no concern to the players, unlike in reality. The place for these types of multiplayer diplomatic negotiations is Vic2. For example, on reddit, a multiplayer group organized a real Congress of Berlin, where all the players negotiated how the continent was to be divvied up, with secret alliance deals and threats of war and everything. That is where this stuff belongs.
In HOI3, the goal has to be balance.
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We organized a Congress of Berlin as part of an iAAR. It was highly traumatizing.
 
Cataphractoi said:
a multiplayer group organized a real Congress of Berlin, where all the players negotiated how the continent was to be divvied up, with secret alliance deals and threats of war and everything. That is where this stuff belongs.
In HOI3, the goal has to be balance.
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There are vicky 2 multiplayer groups ??? The rare times I checked the multiplayer forums it looked completely dead. I have to get into that.
 
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