AGCEEP Scandinavia

[Prinz Wilhelm]

Well, if the Kalmar union exists then Swedish events should not be in the Danish file. However, if a centralized Danish kingom is created out of the three, then it'd make sense. The Kalmar Union's only reason it survived in Sweden was that some of the nobles liked it. It didn't have much control of Sweden, that was in local hands. It would be cool but it wouldn't make sense in my opinion, if the Kalmar Union is kept and some Swedish leaders and events are transferred over to Denmark.

I like that the Danes should get Ugric as a state culture if they can keep Finland for long enough.

 

[pgroves]

I'm playing a 1419 FTG/AGCEEP game as Norway and had a look at the file RNGC_Protestant_Scandinavia.eue to see what might happen to Norway's provinces religion-wise after the Reformation, I have a query about the percentage chances for conversion to protestant for Norway's provinces:

# Period Conversion Probability
# Small Normal Large
# Denmark 1532-1541 85% 90% 95%
# Norway 1536-1563 15% 28% 39%
# Norway 1536-1563 72%* 85%* 90%*
# S Sweden 1525-1538 85% 90% 95%
# N Sweden 1525-1552 85% 90% 95%
# NW Russia 1530-1557 15% 28% 39%
# N Russia 1535-1562 5% 15% 28%
# Iceland 1540-1567 15% 28% 39%
# Greenland 1550-1577 5% 15% 28%
#
# * Only if the province is owned by Denmark or Sweden. The probability is
# independent of that of the line above.

Does the bit in bold imply that Norway's provinces only get the higher percentage chances of conversion if owned by Denmark or Sweden i.e. not Norway? If so, this seems bizarre!

Also I see that there is a scripted event (id = 3226) for Sweden to convert state religion to protestant, but there doesn't appear to be for Norway or Denmark - do these two countries have to make the conversion "manually"? Thanks!

 

[pgroves]

I'm playing a 1419 FTG/AGCEEP game as Norway and had a look at the file RNGC_Protestant_Scandinavia.eue to see what might happen to Norway's provinces religion-wise after the Reformation, I have a query about the percentage chances for conversion to protestant for Norway's provinces:




Does the bit in bold imply that Norway's provinces only get the higher percentage chances of conversion if owned by Denmark or Sweden i.e. not Norway? If so, this seems bizarre!

Also I see that there is a scripted event (id = 3226) for Sweden to convert state religion to protestant, but there doesn't appear to be for Norway or Denmark - do these two countries have to make the conversion "manually"? Thanks!

Is anyone able to help with this query? Thanks

 

[Admiral Fischer]

Does the bit in bold imply that Norway's provinces only get the higher percentage chances of conversion if owned by Denmark or Sweden i.e. not Norway? If so, this seems bizarre!

Olav Engelbrektsson

Also I see that there is a scripted event (id = 3226) for Sweden to convert state religion to protestant, but there doesn't appear to be for Norway or Denmark - do these two countries have to make the conversion "manually"? Thanks!

Yes.

Personally i've modified event no. 3293 for my fun. (i play eu2 btw)

 

[Therion]

Events not firing

Today I got back to this game and started a game as Sweden. I knew beforehand about the quoted event and was eagerly expecting it but it never fired. I waited till its deathdate and even reloaded in between and still it didn't fire. Obviously I was able to manually trigger after the death date expired but this made me wonder about other events that I could have missed. I can't think of a reason as to why this event would not fire.

#(1600-1611) The Walloons in Sweden
event = {
id = 3227
trigger = {
owned = { province = 257 data = -1 } #Bergslagen
control = { province = 257 data = -1 } #Bergslagen
}
random = no
country = SWE
name = "EVENTNAME3227" #The Walloons in Sweden
desc = "EVENTHIST3227"
#-#In 1614, the Walloon entrepreneur Louis de Geer set up shop in Sweden and undertook the development of the iron ore mining and foundries in northern Sweden. For some time already, Walloon craftsmen from the Hainaut, Brabant and Luxemburg regions had been fleeing unemployment and immigrated to Sweden. The influx of master metal workers and ore refiners vitalized the industry and led to a massive improvement in steel quality - a major advantage in weapons manufacture. In a few decades, Sweden became a major exporter of steel and cannon as well as copper and iron.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1600 }
offset = 36090
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1611 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME3227A" #Encourage Walloon immigration
command = { type = provincetax which = 257 value = 9 } #Bergslagen
command = { type = provincetax which = 260 value = 4 } #Lappland
command = { type = population which = 257 value = 2000 } #Bergslagen
command = { type = population which = 260 value = 400 } #Lappland
command = { type = gainmanufactory which = 257 value = weapons } #Bergslagen
command = { type = infra value = 1000 }
command = { type = revoltrisk which = 48 value = 3 } #Disgruntled Swedish workers
command = { type = stability value = -1 } #Integration problems
}
}

 

[Emperor_krk]

The offset looks at least weird, to my knowledge. 36090 is, if I count correctly, 100 years and 3 months. So the game would let the event fire circa March 1700, if the death date allowed that - but it doesn't. I'd advise to check if changing the offset to eg. 360 changes anything. If yes, it means the problem is precisely there.

 

[MichaelM]

Looks like someone was trying to shorten the offset from 360 to 90 at some point.

The 100-year offset means that if the game, from that large interval, picks a date before the deathdate, then the event will fire. So it's about a 10% chance barring reloads.

 

[Therion]

Ah, yes, the offset. Missed it.

Thank you.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Today I got back to this game and started a game as Sweden. I knew beforehand about the quoted event and was eagerly expecting it but it never fired. I waited till its deathdate and even reloaded in between and still it didn't fire. Obviously I was able to manually trigger after the death date expired but this made me wonder about other events that I could have missed. I can't think of a reason as to why this event would not fire.

Just checked and the error in the offset being 36090 was already in Europa Universalis II AGCEEP 1.58

The current vanilla FtG event and the old vanilla EU2 event in 2003
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?87677-The-Swedish-Walloon-Event-way-overpowered
had an offset of 3649. I suggest to change that back to that value.

The english and the german WIKI mention de Geer in Sweden starting only 1618 not 1614. Should we move the start and end date accodingly or only the text description of de Geer?

Do we have an event to lower population in Brabant/Hennegau/Luxemburg accordingly? Should relations with the historical owner who loses population be lowered?

I suggest that Sweden has to have control for at least 5 years to get the event - all those manufactories and new industries did not immediately fall out of thin air but had to be built.

Instead of 3% revoltrisk for 48 month in all of Sweden - why not turn those two provinces catholic? ^^

#(1600-1611) The Walloons in Sweden
event = {
	id = 3227
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 257 data = -1 } #Bergslagen
		control = { province = 257 data = -1 } #Bergslagen
                [color=yellow]owned = { province = 260 data = -1 } #Lappland
		control = { province = 260 data = -1 } #Lappland
                controlchange = { province = 257 years = 5 }
                controlchange = { province = 260 years = 5 }
                stability = 0 #stability 0 or higher
                domestic = { type = innovative value = 3 } #3 or higher if you are too narrowminded you can´t integrate foreigners
                [/color]
	    }
	random = no
	country = SWE
	name = "EVENTNAME3227" #The Walloons in Sweden
	desc = "EVENTHIST3227"
	#-#In 161[color=red]4[/color][color=yellow]8[/color], the Walloon entrepreneur Louis de Geer set up shop in Sweden and undertook the development of the iron ore mining and foundries in northern Sweden. For some time already, Walloon craftsmen from the Hainaut, Brabant and Luxemburg regions had been fleeing unemployment and immigrated to Sweden. The influx of master metal workers and ore refiners vitalized the industry and led to a massive improvement in steel quality - a major advantage in weapons manufacture. In a few decades, Sweden became a major exporter of steel and cannon as well as copper and iron.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1600 }
	offset = [color=red]36090[/color][color=yellow]3649[/color]
	deathdate = { [color=red]day = 1 month = january[/color] year = [color=red]1611[/color][color=yellow]1618[/color] }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3227A" #Encourage Walloon immigration
		command = { type = provincetax which = 257 value = 9 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = provincetax which = 260 value = 4 } #Lappland
		command = { type = population which = 257 value = 2000 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = population which = 260 value = 400 } #Lappland
		command = { type = gainmanufactory which = 257 value = weapons } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = infra value = 1000 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 48 value = 3 } #Disgruntled Swedish workers
		command = { type = stability value = -1 } #Integration problems
	}
}

 

[Cliges]

I played a game as Norway on hard recently. I decided to break off the ties of vassalization with Denmark quite early. Norway stayed Catholic, except for a few provinces, which re-converted automatically by event eventually. It seems that it might be useful for there to be a "Reformation in Norway" event in the case that it remains independent/aloof from Denmark.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I played a game as Norway on hard recently. I decided to break off the ties of vassalization with Denmark quite early. Norway stayed Catholic, except for a few provinces, which re-converted automatically by event eventually. It seems that it might be useful for there to be a "Reformation in Norway" event in the case that it remains independent/aloof from Denmark.

Wasn´t that answered in post 24? If Norway ahistorically manages to stay independant it should have no aid in turning protestant because historically it only turned protestant after it fell under the reign of it´s protestant neighbours. A player still can turn protestant by using the gamemechanic for that.

 

[Cliges]

Wasn´t that answered in post 24? If Norway ahistorically manages to stay independant it should have no aid in turning protestant because historically it only turned protestant after it fell under the reign of it´s protestant neighbours. A player still can turn protestant by using the gamemechanic for that.

Sorry-didn't notice the earlier post. But to respond to that and this post: given that Norwegian independence is ahistoric to begin with, what would have happened is already speculation. An event to deal with it would not be altogether unreasonable, I believe. (In for a penny, in for a pound) Norway doesn't get any events after it stays independent, such things, including a reformation event or chain, would make things somewhat more interesting for a human player. Given that there is an entire scenario devoted to an ahistoric Byzantine resurgence, and there are many ahistoric nations and forming chains, I think some sort of Lutheran Norway is worthy of inclusion.

(At least I feel that an independent Norway eventually falling under Protestant influence due to cultural ties and geographically proximity would have been more likely than a restored Byzantium, a neo-crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, or a Russia formed by Lithuania; all of which are possible in AGCEEP.)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Sorry-didn't notice the earlier post. But to respond to that and this post: given that Norwegian independence is ahistoric to begin with, what would have happened is already speculation. An event to deal with it would not be altogether unreasonable, I believe. (In for a penny, in for a pound)

Well as Norway tried to stay independant from it´s dominating neighbours sweden and denmark with the last catholic archbishop fleeing the land when the danish took over that rather strongly shows to me that Norway would not have endorsed it´s enemies religion when staying independant.

Did you intend something like "Hurray we managed to fend off the invaders - but now we decided to meekly convert to their religion because the danish were always right?"

If a norwegian player actually wants to do that then he CAN do that. There´s a button to change the state religion in the game.

Norway doesn't get any events after it stays independent,

It doesn´t? Did you never try to conquer and then become Denmark as Norway then? Or at least reclaim Greenland?

such things, including a reformation event or chain, would make things somewhat more interesting for a human player. Given that there is an entire scenario devoted to an ahistoric Byzantine resurgence, and there are many ahistoric nations and forming chains, I think some sort of Lutheran Norway is worthy of inclusion.

(At least I feel that an independent Norway eventually falling under Protestant influence due to cultural ties and geographically proximity would have been more likely than a restored Byzantium, a neo-crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, or a Russia formed by Lithuania; all of which are possible in AGCEEP.)

AGCEEP does not contain a way to become the Kingdom of Jerusalem any more since a few releases ago as far as I remember.

Lithuania forming Russia was *very* likely at least once in history when Lithuania occupied even Moscov itself and put Lithuanias wanted candidate on the throne for a short while. Even without that historical example Russia is a major nation and from a gamist point of view it´s better that some other nations are able to form Russia in case it has been destroyed or never formed from Muscovy - than having no Russia in the game.

 

[Garbon]

Feel free to create some plausible events for independent Norway if you'd like. After all, we have a few events for Aragon if it survives.

 

[Samorim]

Feel free to create some plausible events for independent Norway if you'd like. After all, we have a few events for Aragon if it survives.

And EU2 had events for a resurgent Granada, which were very fun. Creating optional alternate scenarios, all in the realm of plausibility, is something that should be done more often by people who like to create events. It helps us escape from historical determinism and stimulate our imagination (but not in a EU3 kind of way!).

 

[Cliges]

Did you intend something like "Hurray we managed to fend off the invaders - but now we decided to meekly convert to their religion because the danish were always right?"

No, more along the lines of a slower and gradual change by cultural influence. "We like to remain independent, but Luther may have had a point", or something like that. Plus, if, like in my game, the intent was to stay out of the Danish political orbit from the very start to the extent possible (cancel vassalage, maybe eventually stay out of alliances), there is already a different dynamic at work. That way, Protestantism wouldn't just be the religion of the political enemy. Perhaps there could be a certain chance that Norwegian provinces could turn Protestant. If a certain # do in fact go in that direction, Norway gets an event to choose to convert at the national level or stick with Catholic while either suffering the existence of non-state religion provinces in some places or else hope to convert them back.

It doesn´t? Did you never try to conquer and then become Denmark as Norway then? Or at least reclaim Greenland?

I did colonize one part of Greenland, but otherwise, no. Though, I should note, that was part of a self-imposed rule to not conquer Scandinavian culture provinces (but the finer details of my game goals are beside the point of this thread). So, if the only way to get events is to take up the mantle of some other Scandinavian country, I wouldn't know.

Lithuania forming Russia was *very* likely at least once in history when Lithuania occupied even Moscov itself and put Lithuanias wanted candidate on the throne for a short while

That is correct, but I'm not sure if all of that business-even had it succeed-is the same thing as Lithuania "becoming Russia".

If a norwegian player actually wants to do that then he CAN do that. There´s a button to change the state religion in the game.

Yes, but it could still at least be an option; which I feel justified by some measure of plausibility and the fact that it would it would make the game more interesting. One might just as well say that if a human player wants to play as a Catholic, he can pick the loyal to Rome option in an event.

Feel free to create some plausible events for independent Norway if you'd like. After all, we have a few events for Aragon if it survives.

If I can get the hang of event formatting, I shall probably do something with that. I enjoyed the game that I mentioned earlier, but some events for flavor would have been welcome.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

... Perhaps there could be a certain chance that Norwegian provinces could turn Protestant.

There already is a chance that norwegian provinces may turn protestant and events to make them protestant.
Look in
Protestant_Scandinavia.eue
in the
\For the Glory\Mods\AGCEEP\Events\RNGC\Reformation
subfolder

I did colonize one part of Greenland, but otherwise, no. Though, I should note, that was part of a self-imposed rule to not conquer Scandinavian culture provinces (but the finer details of my game goals are beside the point of this thread). So, if the only way to get events is to take up the mantle of some other Scandinavian country, I wouldn't know.

Did you never take a look at Norways event file then? The event that fires after Denmark has been vanquished allows Norway to become Denmark - or to stay Norway.

That is correct, but I'm not sure if all of that business-even had it succeed-is the same thing as Lithuania "becoming Russia".

That is even more historically correct. Lithuania and Muscoy quarreled for decades about who was the ruler of all Rus until historically Lithuania lost all russian provinces to Muscovy.

If I can get the hang of event formatting, I shall probably do something with that. I enjoyed the game that I mentioned earlier, but some events for flavor would have been welcome.

You can find the available triggers and commands here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?459110-Commands-and-triggers-list

 

[Cliges]

That is even more historically correct. Lithuania and Muscoy quarreled for decades about who was the ruler of all Rus until historically Lithuania lost all russian provinces to Muscovy.

No one denies that Lithuania could have become Russia, and indeed it was Russian, in a sense, for a time. However, even if it managed to absorb more of the Russian lands, I don't believe that it would have turned into the Russia that did develop historically from Muscovy but rather its own unique state. (Also, I feel that Lithuania's best chance to assert itself over the whole of Russia had already passed when they were unable to defeat the Mongols; which occurred before the AGCEEP era begins. ) Maybe it would be fitting to give it the name "Russia", but not the events, monarchs, conquistadors, etc. In any case, there came a time when Lithuania became more Polish than Russian.

Did you never take a look at Norways event file then?

I can't open the event files to browse them. It might be a quirk of my most recently purchased PC.

There already is a chance that norwegian provinces may turn protestant and events to make them protestant.

I was aware that individual provinces could go that way, and I like it-but I was suggesting a state level change.

The event that fires after Denmark has been vanquished allows Norway to become Denmark - or to stay Norway.

That is a good option to have, but if, like the game I mentioned, the player prefers to not play a Scandinavian focused game, it might not be applicable. I tried to keep the game as challenging for as long as possible; to have taken over Denmark, or to become Denmark would have practically meant instantly becoming a major power. No matter what else, it would make for a boring game if the onlyviable strategy for a minor or ahistorical nation is to form a larger country that unites, in whole or in part, its culture group.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

No one denies that Lithuania could have become Russia, and indeed it was Russian, in a sense, for a time. However, even if it managed to absorb more of the Russian lands, I don't believe that it would have turned into the Russia that did develop historically from Muscovy but rather its own unique state. (Also, I feel that Lithuania's best chance to assert itself over the whole of Russia had already passed when they were unable to defeat the Mongols; which occurred before the AGCEEP era begins. ) Maybe it would be fitting to give it the name "Russia", but not the events, monarchs, conquistadors, etc. In any case, there came a time when Lithuania became more Polish than Russian.

That is not the intent of the event nor AGCEEP. Historically Lithuania lost big areas in the east, merged with Poland and vanished with Poland from the map.
The event to become Russia is not there to simulate that Lithuania tried to become Russia - it´s there to make sure that *if Russia does not exist* that a strong Lithuania can take it´s place because Russia is far more important in the later game than a Lithuania that is ahistorically strong. And the events text explains the cause of the change in a logical way with the western nobles becoming unhappy when the russian nobles flood the court - so the player has the choice to go west or east and the game has a chance to correct it´s course toward a more historical outcome in case Russia vanished
http://www.agceep.net/introduction.htm#Mission

I can't open the event files to browse them. It might be a quirk of my most recently purchased PC.

The event files are pure text. Any program like Wordpad or Notepad can open them.

I was aware that individual provinces could go that way, and I like it-but I was suggesting a state level change.

Why? A player already can change the state religion of his state from catholic to protestant and gain the bonus from confiscating church property if he wants.

That is a good option to have, but if, like the game I mentioned, the player prefers to not play a Scandinavian focused game, it might not be applicable. I tried to keep the game as challenging for as long as possible; to have taken over Denmark, or to become Denmark would have practically meant instantly becoming a major power. No matter what else, it would make for a boring game if the onlyviable strategy for a minor or ahistorical nation is to form a larger country that unites, in whole or in part, its culture group.

What do you expect? No mod can have events for anything - if you chose as Norway to colonize America and conquer India you can do that, but there will be no events for that.

 

[johho888]

The event files are pure text. Any program like Wordpad or Notepad can open them.

If the files have an ending that is something other than .txt in some cases you might need to rightclick and pick "edit" rather than rightclick and pick "open" or double-click to open the text files. Maybe this is what is causing Cliges a problem reading them?