Divine Wind - Developer Diary #6

[StephenT]

So if i've got this right, then any country will be able to settle a colony in a Horde province, but also, any country with an army in that province (including the horde itself) will be able to click on the "Burn colony" button, yes?

Will occupying a horde province show it as being conquered, with the cross-hatching on the political map, or will it be treated more like an uncolonised province, that doesn't change hands until the colony becomes a city? And if the latter, would that mean the horde can still draw taxes from a province even though an enemy army is sitting there?

Will there be any new events or decisions related to this new system, such as an event to give you a free colonist if you border a horde province?

Also, I think something like this system would be perfect for depicting the North American tribal nations as well: being able to annex their provinces in a single war and get a ready-made colonial empire is far too quick and easy at the moment.

 

[Sqwerlpunk]

I think it does not realy make great sense. I would rather implement some raid system than this thing. As GH had it's politics, and wasn't at war with everyone. Anyway doing special system for horde countries should be good idea. But not like it.

I was hinting at this with my above comment. Nomadic Steppe lands shouldn't be lands you can walk into and "occupy", other nations should treat them like uninhabited lands (high attrition, nothing to do there). This would make it so other than colonizing and pushing back against the horde units, you don't have anything else going on in the "war". Also makes it so the player can control "raids" on outside nations with his units and the new and improved Pillaging. Add a nice bit of diplomacy on top of this (like tribute for peace, and Horde vassal states) and you have a pretty good representation of what was going on, at least on a greater scale.

My opinion, anyway. That's how I'd do it.

 

[Thormodr]

I'm liking the changes

Woot! I love it. This sounds like the game will simulate history much better. I'm a big fan of the Hordes and it sounds like playing them will be much more interesting and challenging in the future.

I am wondering about a few things though. Say China sends out colonists to some Mongol territory and eventually builds it up to a city and thereby conquers the land. What are the Mongols options then? Can they ever destroy that city and make it revert to it's former form? Can they conquer it or would they merely raid it for gold and military tradition?

Anyway, Divine Wind sounds awesome. EU3 keeps getting better and better.

 

[Imperium Dei]

Sounds like an interesting addition.

 

[Alerias]

Im guessing the benefit from the POV of non-horde neighbors would be Infamy-free expansion, right?

With all this trouble about colonists and having perma-war neighbors, I assume whowever pacifies them gets away with it scott-free in exchange?

If so, that sounds interesting.

OTOH I am hoping that this is not the extent of the diplomatic rebalance that was hinted at

 

[TheCheeseMaster]

urmm it sounds awful. being constant war with everyone will make them piss easy to conquer, you just have to make the first step (i doubt the AI will attack a large nation w/o others doing everything else).

So far (and ive only read 2 of the diaries), the expansion sounds rubbish, magistrates for buildings and hordes constant attack were 2 ideas that i didnt want.

 

[An Elder Thing]

Can we play as Cossacks?

 

[Rockingluke]

The hordes aren't going to be kicking in the gates of Moscow unless you don't pay them tribute. The way I see it, the idea is that you never know when they will attack, unlike now when you have formal declarations of war. You simply pay off the rampaging barbarians and hope they are satisfied for as long as possible. The system will be fine with a bit of balancing.

 

[Evie HJ]

urmm it sounds awful. being constant war with everyone will make them piss easy to conquer,

Except the part where you can't conquer them since you can't make peace-for-province with them...

 

[olvirki]

Nice, this will make Georgia more fun to play, and that nation is very nice now.

Btw. Please have a family tree, Iceland and a converter in your expansion.

 

[nachinus]

I hope this csystem an be adapted and exported to EU:Rome for the barbarian nomadic tribes.

 

[Sqwerlpunk]

Except the part where you can't conquer them since you can't make peace-for-province with them...

The point is that you can't make peace with them. You either pay tribute or keep a standing army on your border.

And that you can't just "conquer" nomad provinces. You settle them. Much better.

 

[Chamboozer]

The way the dev diary is worded makes it sound like it's gonna be constant war and the GH will be sending giant armies in every direction 24/7 to attack its neighbors. If this is the case then it really is a point of concern as that's ahistorical and a bit ridiculous. How does the horde recover from an invasion, for example?

But, I suspect it's actually a lot more complex than Paradox has let on. Surely it won't simply be endless war until one side is destroyed, either the horde or the horde's enemies. That would be boring, ahistorical, and quite annoying.

I think the best solution is for the Horde to always be at war with other countries, but for them to not be at war with the horde unless war is declared. Your armies would still be able to fight off raids despite undeclared war of course. Then, the horde AI will pick and choose raiding targets it thinks it can defeat (the same train of thought for the AI as it asks itself when it's deciding whether or not to DOW someone). The country that is attacked can choose how to respond, either with aggression or tribute. Hopefully to be realistic tribute won't be terribly destructive or limiting. Think of the Roman Empire paying tribute to the barbarians, it was much more beneficial than fighting them and it didn't inhibit their independance.

When it comes to taking over horde territory there's two things I worry about. Will the AI be able to keep its colonies safe, and if so will the hordes just end up being colonized by some faraway European power at random instead of someone historical, like Russia?

 

[Evie HJ]

The point is that you can't make peace with them. You either pay tribute or keep a standing army on your border.

That's pretty much the point I'm making: that "They'll be easy to conquer if they're at war with everyone!" is not exactly a relevant fear since in actuality the only way to take their provinces will be colonization.

 

[Sqwerlpunk]

That's pretty much the point I'm making: that "They'll be easy to conquer if they're at war with everyone!" is not exactly a relevant fear since in actuality the only way to take their provinces will be colonization.

My context comprehension fails.

My bad.

 

[santali]

Woohoo! Sounds exciting! Love the new changes!

Although lack of attention to Caucasus is a bit saddening.

 

[ThePutty]

Well, we have everywhere being improved, but what about India and Southeast Asia? Or will that area remain the same?

 

[arstal]

My own questions:

Can a horde civilize?

Will countries have enough colonists to conquer the hordes historically?

Will there be BB for taking horde provinces?

Can a horde diploannex or annex?

 

[DarthJF]

Ooh, sounds great if it's done properly.

 

[Sqwerlpunk]

My own questions:

Can a horde civilize?

Will countries have enough colonists to conquer the hordes historically?

Will there be BB for taking horde provinces?

Can a horde diploannex or annex?

Original post states that Hordes can civilize, and I'm gonna guess the dramatic slowdown in how fast you can absorb nomadic land will imply no BB penalty.