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Doomdark

Chief Creative Officer
Paradox Staff
61 Badges
Apr 3, 2000
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Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:
- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

Crusader Kings II - Clan Management.jpg


Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

Crusader Kings II - Feud.jpg


Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. :) Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!
 
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That's awesome. Honestly. All of you take a tasty cookie.
Nah I'll enjoy my "All-American Cheeseburger" chips instead. Best taste on chips ever.
 
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It really is starting to sound like steppe hordes will have a completely different feel to a regular feudal realm.
It is what we are aiming for
 
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Sorry but Blood feuds and Blood oaths are Nomad only stuff
 
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Well, regarding the second image, it seems that hordes can now be of king tier.
Clans under a Khan are King tier

And how is it that the khan in that image have a handful of county titles, but only 1/1 demesne limit?
Because he is holding only the province/land/county title and no actual holdings.
 
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So, both clan leaders and horde leaders are called Khans?
Sorry no the top khan is called Khagan, they are all Khans/Clan-Chiefs. Its a cultural thing I believe.

Also the tier is not moddable.
 
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My guess is, from left to right : Total population (you + all the clans), Clan number limit (there are 4 clans, hence the 4/4) and something I cannot make sense off.

Correct, the last one is how much land the Clans demand from their Khagan for them to be satisfied.
 
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Any new stuff for Manicheasm and Tengrism groogy?
Not anything particular comes to mind, this expansion focus mostly on the lifestyle/governance of nomadism.
 
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Liking the sound of this. I assume the clans will be less likely to tolerate the situation we currently often get where the Mongol Khagan dies and is succeeded by a 2 year old.
We will talk about this in the next dev diary but in general yes that's really bad.
 
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one figures there should be more for those two faiths in Vanilia due to the fact that they were the most prominit faiths of the Nomdic tribes.
Yes they will be more prominent in the history, I was referring to new potential features.
 
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Ah. Does this mean that it would be possible for there to be a manichean head of religion, as they historically had or tried to establish?
That's not even near or related to my answer
 
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Also, is the clan limit something like demesne limit, in that you can go over it at the cost of receiving penalties
Yes other Clans get cranky, you don't want them cranky.

What influences the land demanded by your clans?
Your size

Can clans try to break independent? Can clans hold land, or are they always landless?
Yes clans can hold land, they can break apart and form their own Hordes

How does the splitting of a clan or joining of clans work?
It works kind of like the Revocation interaction but the result is either that you create a new clan or that one disappears.

If you annex an entire horde as another horde, will all the defeated clans be thence your vassal clans? Or only the defeated khagan's clan?
No nomads have a special thing when they get defeated and lose all their land which I think we will covered in a later diary I believe.
 
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Huh so all hordes are empire-tier, or did I misunderstand your earlier post Groogy?

No that is correct, all hordes are empire tier because several game mechanics require it (can't be vassals of others, etc. etc.)
 
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Ow yeah I'm going to give you guys a bit of sneak peak of what is possible to do as I really want to do this myself.

Start up as a Turkish tribe north of the Caspian Sea, migrate through Persia into the Jungles of India. Establish a power base there by breeding a massive horde of Elephants, subjugate the subcontinent and then start burning everything to the West as you spread through it as a plague. Nothing shall be left standing as the Turkish Elephant Riders plow through everything, trampling the pitiful settled people trying to hide in their cities.

THE KINGS OF EURASIA SHALL TREMBLE AS A MILLION ELEPHANTS MARCH UPON THEM!
 
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Will there be anything to simulate the vassal hordes that many of the larger hordes had? Will you be able to make other hordes tributary and force them to fight with you?

Yes
 
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Groogy I've got a question regarding the DLC - what will happen immediately upon update but before the DLC purchase? Will the features simply be not there and there would be no change, or will all the nomads simply be locked from playing without the Horse Lords?

It's very technical and hard to explain in the layman terms. Easiest way I guess would be to say nomads are not generated unless you have the expansion
 
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Why is it so? All the DLC released so far made it so that religions/governments that were DLC-locked were still being used by the AI.

As a side note: are the Kara-Khitai in?

Because we couldn't do it any other way and yes of course they are in. They are a potential random name for a clan. (not scripter so dont remember if they are in history database)
 
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Groogy is the way mongol inheritance works still the same or can they now use other ones?

They have one specific that is forced on them and they can never change. It's both super powerful but also with weakness
 
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That's very weird. What about people that only own horse lords and the basegame. Will they be unable to play any of the nomads without the apppropriate dlc to unlock their religion? Are there even any christian hords?


No if they own the expansion they will be able to play as nomads no matter what. The government is locked, not the religion.
 
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You know what this is going to mean, right? India based Vikings raiding the shores of England with elephants.
Was actually a thing that happened when we were tweaking the AI, QA came and complained that they were being raided by Hindu elephants that had traveled to Arabia by boat to raid.
 
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