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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #92 - Companies

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Hello and welcome back to a new round of Victoria 3 dev diaries! Today we’re going to be talking about Companies, a new free feature being added in the 1.5 update, which will be available to test and feedback on in the first version of the 1.5 open beta.

As we have previously mentioned, one of our major focuses for the 1.5 update is to improve the replayability and challenge in the core economic gameplay loop, and the main purpose of the Companies feature is to do just that by encouraging countries to specialize in certain industries and develop competitive advantages against other nations. Companies are also intended to add more flavor and differences in gameplay between different nations, as well as giving players more of a reason to care about prestige and their position in global national rankings.

Before I go into the nitty-gritty, I should mention that this dev diary is going to be focused mainly on the Companies feature in the form that will be available in the first open beta release, with a fairly narrow focus on achieving the above design goals for economic specialization, flavor and prestige. However, Companies is a feature that we consider to have near limitless potential for expanding on and hooking into more parts of the game, so I’ll wrap up the dev diary by mentioning some of the ideas we have for building on this feature in the future. Also, please note that this is very much a feature under development, so expect placeholder/WIP art, names, numbers and interfaces!

But enough preamble, let’s get into the details. Companies are national-level entities that are established by a country, with each country being able to support a certain number of companies based on factors such as technology and laws. The vast majority of countries will not start with the ability to support any companies, but will need to reach a certain level of society tech before their first company becomes available.

Each Company is associated with a certain set of building types, for example a Company specializing in metal mines might be associated with Iron Mines and Lead Mines, while a more agriculturally inclined company might instead be associated with certain types of plantations and/or farms.

To establish a company, you need to have the technology and resource potential to construct at least one of their associated building types - it’s currently possible to establish companies without having any of their associated buildings built, though this is something we will be actively looking for feedback from the open beta on how it feels, as it’s something of an immersion versus gameplay question. Flavored companies (more on those below) have other more specific requirements to be established in addition to these basic requirements.

A selection of potential candidates for Sweden’s first company: Combine of Fisheries and the United Forestry Conglomerate are immediately available, while the buildings of Wine & Fruit Inc are… not so suitable to the Swedish climate and hence will only be available if Sweden acquires some warmer lands with potential for those resources.
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Once established, a Company will have effects on all buildings of their associated building type in their parent country. These effects are twofold: They increase the throughput of the buildings, as well as the construction efficiency when constructing new levels of the associated building types. The degree by which companies boost their associated buildings is partially scaled based on the Prestige ranking of their parent nation, with the 3rd-ranked nation gaining a larger boost than the 4th-ranked nation and so on. While somewhat abstracted, this is meant to represent competitive benefits the company enjoys from the international status of their home country. The purpose of this effect as a game mechanic is to give players a direct economic reason to care about their overall prestige ranking versus other nations.

It’s also worth noting that in conjunction with this change, we have increased the base construction cost of all buildings and, through the change to local pricing, somewhat lowered the base economic efficiency of most buildings. The overall intent is that the baseline economy should be less efficient, with companies allowing countries to make up the difference in select areas, providing the incentive for specialization and competitive advantages mentioned above. However, one exception to this is that base construction production was increased from 5 to 10 to ensure the baseline slowdown of construction did not make small nations entirely unviable to play.

While the majority of the construction efficiency increase from companies does not depend on your prestige ranking, Sweden’s relatively high placement on the global scoreboard does give its companies an additional edge.
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Established Companies also have Productivity and Prosperity ratings. Productivity is simply the average Productivity (yearly average earnings per employee) of all its associated building levels. This is compared against the global average Productivity of all companies in the world, with companies that are doing better than average gaining Prosperity over time, and companies below a certain threshold (which is lower than the threshold for gaining Prosperity) losing it instead.

If a Company reaches 100 Prosperity, its Prosperity modifier will activate, granting a company-specific bonus to its parent nation. This is intended to add an additional dimension to the selection of companies - do you simply want to focus on whatever resources are going to be most profitable for your nation, or aim to build up a specific industry for the bonuses it can give you? As an example, a player that is planning to play a particularly aggressive campaign may want to focus on building up an arms-industry related Company for the military advantages it can grant.

The Agricultural Development Society is doing well enough compared to other companies that its Prosperity is increasing, which will please the Rural Folk once Prosperity hits 100.
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As we hinted at earlier in the dev diary, Companies come in two varieties: Standard and Flavored. Standard Companies are ones that are available to all nations unless replaced by a Flavored Company, while Flavored Companies tend to be restricted to a certain culture and/or geographical region. For example, a North German nation that owns certain parts of the Rhineland will have certain historical German companies available to them.

Flavored companies are mostly historical (but not always, as sometimes we have to go a bit alt-history), with a set of building types based around their real-life historical business focuses, and tend to have stronger or more interesting prosperity bonuses than the standard companies. Flavored companies may sometimes replace very similar Standard companies, but this is the exception rather than the rule, most Flavored companies do not replace Standard companies.

Alright, that’s the general gist of what Companies will look like when you first get your hands on it in the 1.5 open beta. As I mentioned at the beginning though, there is a lot of places we envision taking this feature in the future, so here are a few examples of that, though you definitely shouldn’t expect all of this be in scope for the 1.5 update:
  • Having companies ‘level up’ beyond just a single prosperity bonus, possibly in a way that ties into diplomacy/rank and replaces the current company bonuses from prestige
  • Having pops, specific buildings in specific states, Interest Groups, and/or characters more directly associated with Companies instead of them just being a national-level entity
  • Companies having political and/or geopolitical ambitions (for example, a certain fruit-company might wish to create some, ahem, fruit-focused republics)
  • Multinational companies that aren’t limited to a single country

I’ll sign off by leaving you a bonus screenshot of the first companies added to the game in the earliest iteration of the feature. Sadly, neither Björnmetall nor Martin’s Fish Tank Emporium will be available in the 1.5 version of the game.
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That’s all for today! Join us again next week as we go over what other additions changes you can expect to be coming in the 1.5 open beta, with a particular focus on the military. See you then!
 
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What do you want from stockpiling-of-goods, and why would it make the game better?

Note 1: I have no residual fondness for Vicky 2's implementation of the concept myself, so I don't know the answer to either question.

Note 2: To pre-empt one obvious potential answer, "It would be more realistic" is not, of itself, a substantive answer to the second half.
Concrete locations for goods have a lot of benefits. Of course you have to take the performance impact into account. I'm not sure adding stockpiling by itself is a good move. Cutting off supply lines, making the location of a building very relevant for efficiency and minimum cost, goods being able to be captured, stockpiling for governments to prepare for destabilization economically or militarily, making transportation like trucks or rails or boats relevant, etc.

Of course different people will care more or less about each of those things.
 
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What do you want from stockpiling-of-goods, and why would it make the game better?
That's probably impossible from a performance point of view, but Stocks would simply shift the Flux Economy that didn't exist at the Time to a real Capitalist Economy. Demand & Supply is before anything regulated with the Amount of goods that can be brought to the Market or retained by Producers. That's 101 Economy indeed.

Stocks would allow some Strategy on every level and in any field btw.
 
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Stockpiling is a choice in some areas, just think about it why would you store consumer furniture as a state? With gun powder it's a different story.
Why would only States Stockpiles ? Why Marxist States like would not Stockpile ? Why future Companies for instance could not ? Isn't Investment Pool already kind of Stockpiling ?

You're missing the point.

Btw, it isn't clear to date "who" you play as. Actually I even think the question is "where / How" the player relate to the Nation played, but that is a whole other discussion.
 
A general note on historic/flavored companies:
They won't be in the first release of the Open Beta. That is because we're planning to add quite a large number of them and it will simply take more time to get them in.
We're hoping to get them in for the first update during Open Beta, so probably sometime in September.
We'll keep you up-to-date on it of course.
If research time and completeness and the large number of these are the issues would it be worth doing a small sample of flavoured companies for the initial launch? Maybe the ones a specific historical major country would encounter.

It would be a pity to invest the time to introduce a huge number of these all at once and then find they don't work well.
 
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That's probably impossible from a performance point of view, but Stocks would simply shift the Flux Economy that didn't exist at the Time to a real Capitalist Economy. Demand & Supply is before anything regulated with the Amount of goods that can be brought to the Market or retained by Producers. That's 101 Economy indeed.

Stocks would allow some Strategy on every level and in any field btw.

Stockpiles are inherent in the current system - it's why goods are always available, middle men are stockpiling. Making stockpiles explicit would make the game worse and bring back all the flaws the Vic2 economy model had.

And from a game play point of view the current system is a lot clearer and a lot more accessible than any stockpile system. It is based entirely around the player being able to see the result of their action and then to plan their next action. All stockpiling does is make the system more opaque and more prone to catastrophic failure.

The cash balance on every building IS their stockpile.

If you want to play a factory simulator then you need tangible goods
If you want to play an economy simulator then you need the flow of goods - NOT individual items. (unless you have a supercomputer and a bank of monitors for all the UI info)
 
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Stockpiles are inherent in the current system - it's why goods are always available, middle men are stockpiling. Making stockpiles explicit would make the game worse and bring back all the flaws the Vic2 economy model had.

And from a game play point of view the current system is a lot clearer and a lot more accessible than any stockpile system. It is based entirely around the player being able to see the result of their action and then to plan their next action. All stockpiling does is make the system more opaque and more prone to catastrophic failure.

The cash balance on every building IS their stockpile.

If you want to play a factory simulator then you need tangible goods
If you want to play an economy simulator then you need the flow of goods - NOT individual items. (unless you have a supercomputer and a bank of monitors for all the UI info)
You too are missing the Point. And probably read me too fast also. But anyway, thanks for almost stating the obvious wich has nothing to do with my initial Post.

And no, Stockpiles are not inherent to the current system. Not at all. The "Economy" only sees one side of the Demand & Supply. Wich is fine as I said. It's a game.
 
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Flavored Companies tend to be restricted to a certain culture and/or geographical region
Flavored companies are mostly historical (but not always, as sometimes we have to go a bit alt-history), with a set of building types based around their real-life historical business focuses, and tend to have stronger or more interesting prosperity bonuses than the standard companies. Flavored companies may sometimes replace very similar Standard companies, but this is the exception rather than the rule, most Flavored companies do not replace Standard companies.

Flavoured company names based on location/culture/etc.? Go absolutely wild, in fact this seems kind of essential for immersion.
Flavoured companies which provide specific countries unique bonuses for no particular reason? Absolutely no thank you.

There is no inherent feature that makes British people better at exploiting one particular resource. There is nothing ingrained in the French character which means they naturally excel at running a certain sector. It's a poor approach to history, and frankly a slightly dodgy one. Flavour does not need to mean handing buffs to countries we find more interesting/think did better than others. Reconsider this approach.
 
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There is no inherent feature that makes British people better at exploiting one particular resource. There is nothing ingrained in the French character which means they naturally excel at running a certain sector.
To be the devil's advocate, you could argue that there is institutional knowledge how to run certain types of companies among people of certain cultures. Let's say, certain French people know a lot about how to run a high-class wine business. Another frenchman can study under these people to learn how to run his own high-class wine business, use favours and acquaintance he gained while studying under them to help his business etc...
That's something an equally talented Danish businessman won't have access to. It does not mean that the French are genetically better at selling wine.
 
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To be the devil's advocate, you could argue that there is institutional knowledge how to run certain types of companies among people of certain cultures. Let's say, certain French people know a lot about how to run a high-class wine business. Another frenchman can study under these people to learn how to run his own high-class wine business, use favours and acquaintance he gained while studying under them to help his business etc...
That's something an equally talented Danish businessman won't have access to. It does not mean that the French are genetically better at selling wine.

Then the reason the French wine seller can do better than the Danish wine seller is because they are surrounded by a more developed wine industry, not because they are French. Companies should absolutely deliver better bonuses for more developed industries, but not because of culture.
 
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Then the reason the French wine seller can do better than the Danish wine seller is because they are surrounded by a more developed wine industry, not because they are French. Companies should absolutely deliver better bonuses for more developed industries, but not because of culture.
So bigger relevant industries as quantity = quality in this game
 
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Then the reason the French wine seller can do better than the Danish wine seller is because they are surrounded by a more developed wine industry, not because they are French. Companies should absolutely deliver better bonuses for more developed industries, but not because of culture.
Then Why did french developed a renowned Culture or Wine in the first place ? There are many other places in the World where this could have happened, but it didn't. I sense Culture comes before Industry.
 
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So bigger relevant industries as quantity = quality in this game
The quality aspect had also suggestions in the past i will summon it again up, if you look at current recommended cpu for steam requirements (which is humble and dearing bit to optimistic at best) at vic3 we can really help the devs make the game more complex, not many people run a that old cpu anymore and some who have a fairly old cpu like me :) i7 3770 will upgrade in near future here we go..:

- How make quality of goods more noticeable:
Introduce low quality, regular, high and possibly luxury quality type of class for certain products: it does answer your quesiton where ends the french wine up..
- How introduce perisable aspect of goods like grain and fish:
Introduce low, mid and long term shelf life value, this way when stockpiling an automatic deduction takes place if nothing is taken out of the stockpile and just stockpiled example:

rice / grain: long term
mid term: canned fruit / vegetables or some other things
short term: fresh meat, fresh fruit

creates interesting situation of vitamin deficency story line and you maybe can expand tech tree to do something about it.

- Vic 2 had certain mechanics which can improved upon and put in vic 3 such as a coal mine:
now you have to manually expand the mine in vic 2 it was more a natural kind of growth, this looked better to me and minimised the micro management, than
what can be improved upon is what is the output of a mine in tonnage, metric ton. as such you can better compare your yield with other
nations and plan a better expansion path tech wise as to if it is beneficial for you etc.

- Tonnage remains relevant into the early century 20st as first trucks where labeled as being able to haul 2 or 3 tonnes.
These values also can help to make a more realistic ability for nations to export than simply build some fleet.

In the end it probably cant be realised as it all comes down to attaching more values to single entities in the game which massively expands the need for more cpu power.
 
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Then Why did french developed a renowned Culture or Wine in the first place ?
Because wine snobs decided that a particular kind of French wine was the ideal to be aspired to, and judge wines by how well they meet that ideal rather than how pleasant they are to drink.

(Red wine is an acquired taste in the first place, but I'm told that super-expensive small production, old vintage French reds are an acquired taste by the standards of people who like red wine.)
 
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Then Why did french developed a renowned Culture or Wine in the first place ? There are many other places in the World where this could have happened, but it didn't. I sense Culture comes before Industry.
Marketing. They buy cheaper Spanish bulk wine, blend it into their wines (or just bottle it) and sell more expensive French one (the Italians do the same). You could just buy same quality Spanish wine for half the price, but as I said, marketing. Now, I wonder if this will begin a wine war in the forum…, you know Western Europeans are very proud of our wines.

Now, back to topic I’m not against flavored companies, as long as they are not inherently better than not flavored. Something like what happens already with some countries having their own flavored IGs. If that’s the case, then the more (flavored companies) the better.
 
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Because wine snobs decided that a particular kind of French wine was the ideal to be aspired to, and judge wines by how well they meet that ideal rather than how pleasant they are to drink.

(Red wine is an acquired taste in the first place, but I'm told that super-expensive small production, old vintage French reds are an acquired taste by the standards of people who like red wine.)
Well, no.

First Vine Culture in France was created in Massilia (Marseille) around 600 BC, but It's the Romans that spread the Vine Culture in Gaul. Gallics already drunk wine.Then Carolus Magnus developed his own Vine Culture in Bourgogne (Burgundy) where originated french grand cru " Corton-Charlemagne" wich is white vine, Avignon Papacy also developed vineyards, notably le "Châteauneuf-du-pape" wich can be white or red, but above all Vine culture was managed by Abbeys : Wine was drunk by normal people and it was linked to Christianism. That's how many vineyards started to develop in France. Some were gross, some were progressively refined. During all Medieval Ages, French wine was exported to England and Scandinavia.

Centuries later, another image speaks volume : "les poilus" (french citizens called to serve) during WW1 who were drinking red wine and eating "saucisson" and cheese in the Trenches. French people do enjoy drinking wine, it never was a snob game.

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i would like to add to the discussion that branding plays a big role as champagne is as i recall even culturally protected heritage and no one can claim it's the real champagne if not from france. If you want to celebrate something in many european housholds the pinnacle of statement is not a cup of coffee or a local brand of beer but a bottle of champagne.

This strong economic 'aura' drags with itselves the complete industry of wine making, also slightly more favourable conditions agricultural wise and know how

Interesting challenge for vic 3 game design is if lets say a player with a country outside of europe wants to compete in a credible way how to do it and simulate it without simple 'prestige' buffs
 
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i would like to add to the discussion that branding plays a big role as champagne is as i recall even culturally protected heritage and no one can claim it's the real champagne if not from france. If you want to celebrate something in many european housholds the pinnacle of statement is not a cup of coffee or a local brand of beer but a bottle of champagne.
That's absolutely true. Even teenagers pop Champagne.
 
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First Vine Culture in France was created in Massilia (Marseille) around 600 BC, but It's the Romans that spread the Vine Culture in Gaul. Gallics already drunk wine.Then Carolus Magnus developed his own Vine Culture in Bourgogne (Burgundy) where originated french grand cru " Corton-Charlemagne" wich is white vine, Avignon Papacy also developed vineyards, notably le "Châteauneuf-du-pape" wich can be white or red, but above all Vine culture was managed by Abbeys : Wine was drunk by normal people and it was linked to Christianism. That's how many vineyards started to develop in France. Some were gross, some were progressively refined. During all Medieval Ages, French wine was exported to England and Scandinavia.
This is not exclusive to France. Other Mediterranean countries have similar histories with Wine. Very obvious ones are Italy, Spain, Portugal(not Mediterranean) and I guess we could add Greece and others (also Germany produce wine). For instance wine was introduced in the south of Spain by the Phoenicians around 1100 BC, and the rest of the history is generally similar to France, at least in Christian Spain. All those countries have a wine culture like France, but French wines have more renown, so that doesn’t explain it. Well apparently Italian wines have a bigger market share and are more expensive. But still people think of France when wines. What is the reason?
 
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French wine was exported to England and Scandinavia.
Because the answer to the question "can I make wine here?" in the British Isles and the milder parts of Scandinavia has generally varied from "eh, you can, but the product is a big disappointment" to "lol no".
 
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