• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #42 - Heinlein patch (part 3)

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. This is the third part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 patch that we are currently working on. This week's dev diary will be about more miscellaneous changes and improvements coming in the patch, currently planned for release sometime in October.

Federation/Alliance Merger
When Federations were given the ability to vote on invites and wars, alliances became a bit of an odd duck in the Stellaris diplomacy. A middle layer between the 'loose' diplomacy of defensive pacts and joint DOWs, they ended up as little more than a weak form of Federation that's usually swapped out the moment the latter becomes available. In Heinlein, we've decided to retire alliances altogether and have Federations be the only form of 'permanent' alliance. When you unlock the technology for Federations, you will immediately be able to invite another empire into a Federation with you, 4 empires no longer being necessary to start one. Once a Federation has been formed, the technology is not required to invite new members or to ask to join it.

Federation Association Status
Another issue we ran into with the changes to diplomacy in Asimov is that Alliances and Federations had trouble bringing in new members - since non-aggression pacts, defensive pacts and guarantees were no longer possible with outside powers, building trust is difficult and you have to mostly rely on large bribes to get new members to join, something that just didn't feel right. To address this, we're adding a new diplomatic option to Heinlein called 'Federation Association Status'. This works similarly to an invite to the Federation in that it can be offered and asked for with any member of the Federation, but must be approved via unanimous vote. A country that has Federation Association Status is not actually a part of the Federation, but has a non-aggression pact with all Federation members and will gain trust with them up to a maximum value of 100. Revoking association status can be done via majority vote, or on the part of the associate at any time they like.
h4Xxg1d.png


Planet Habitability Changes
The planet habitability wheel is a mechanic we were never quite happy with - it makes some degree of sense, but it's hard to keep track of how each planet relates to your homeworld type, and it ends up nonsensical in quite a few cases (Desert being perfectly fine for Tropical inhabitants, or Arid for Tundra, etc). We found that most players tend to intuitively divide planets into desert/arid tundra/arctic and ocean/tropical/continental, and so we decided to change the mechanic to fit player intuition. Instead of a wheel, planets are now divided into three climate groups (Dry, Wet and Cold) and two new planet types (Alpine and Savanna) were added so that each group has 3 planet types. Habitability for the climates now works as follows (numbers may be subject to change):
  • Habitability for your main planet type is 80% (as before)
  • Habitability for planets of your climate is 60%
  • Habitability for planets of other climates is 20%
As such, you no longer have to keep track of anything other than which climate your planet type has to know whether a particular type of world is suitable for your species.
tAcBgqB.png


We also felt that the number of habitable planets in the galaxy was too large overall, but that we couldn't really decrease it so long as the player only had access to 1/7 of those types at start, which would now become 1/9. We also felt the colonization tech gating could be rather arbitrary, particularly if you had a species suited to a particular planet type but still couldn't colonize it due to lacking the tech. As such, we've done away with the tech gating on colonization, and instead instituted a 30% minimum habitability requirement to colonize a planet. You will also be unable to relocate pops to a planet if their habitability there would be under the 30% minimum. With this change we've also majorly slashed the number of habitable worlds in the galaxy, though if you prefer a galaxy lush with life you will be able to make it so through a new option outlined below. We are, of course, looking into and tweaking the effects that having less habitable worlds overall will have on empire borders.

More Galaxy Setup Options
There is an old gamer's adage that says 'more player choice is always better'. We do not actually agree with this, as adding unnecessary/uninteresting choices can just as well bog a game down as it can improve it, but in the case of galaxy setup in a game such as Stellaris, it is pretty much true. With that in mind, the following new galaxy setup options are planned to be included in Heinlein:
  • Maximum number of Fallen Empires (actually setting a fixed number is difficult due to the way they spawn and how it's affected by regular empires)
  • Chance of habitable worlds spawning
  • Whether to allow advanced empires to start near players
  • Whether to use empire clustering
  • Whether endgame crises should be allowed to appear

Sector Improvements
Since barely a day goes by without a new thread on the topic of sectors and enslavement, we would of course be remiss not to deal with this particular bugbear. We intend to spend a considerable amount of time on the sector AI for Heinlein, but I'm not going to go into specifics on bug fixing/AI improvements but rather on a series of new toggles that we intend to introduce to give the player more control over their sector. In addition to the current redevelopment/respect tile resource toggles, the following new toggles are planned for Heinlein:
  • Whether sector is allowed to enslave/emancipate
  • Whether sector is allowed to build spaceports and construction ships
  • Whether sector is allowed to build military stations (this will replace the military sector focus)
We're also discussing having a sector toggle for building and maintaining local defense fleets, but we don't think we'll have time for it in Heinlein.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking about Fallen Empires, how they can awaken, and the War in Heaven.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 254
  • 71
  • 11
Reactions:
We also felt that the number of habitable planets in the galaxy was too large overall (...) With this change we've also majorly slashed the number of habitable worlds in the galaxy, though if you prefer a galaxy lush with life you will be able to make it so through a new option outlined below.

Great Odin's raven, that is amazing news. The simple step of adjusting number of habitable planets will have such a profound effect. It even has the potential to mitigate the effect of sectors and the tedious late-game war micro of conquering 257 planets:D

In Heinlein, we've decided to retire alliances altogether and have Federations be the only form of 'permanent' alliance. When you unlock the technology for Federations, you will immediately be able to invite another empire into a Federation with you, 4 empires no longer being necessary to start one.

Isn't this a buff to The (already) Mighty Rush? Early alliances were a tool to coordinate defence against rushers in MP. Now joint DOWs and vision would have to be achieved through sensor links and chat until Federations are unlocked.
 
Not gonna lie, not a fan of abolishing alliances entirely. I want to be able to have a military partnership without having to sacrifice some of my sovereignty to a federation.
 
  • 24
  • 1
Reactions:
These changes look great. I appreciate the continued game support.

If the colony gate techs are going away, which is a good thing, maybe add some new Society techs that improve Sectors. Small bumps in this or that, reduce the happiness drag, experience boost for the governor, higher chance for governor to gain a new skill, etc.
 
Isn't this a buff to The (already) Mighty Rush? Early alliances were a tool to coordinate defence against rushers in MP. Now joint DOWs and vision would have to be achieved through sensor links and chat until Federations are unlocked.

Good point. Alliances require no tech. I wonder if that's what Wiz means by this:

When you unlock the technology for Federations, you will immediately be able to invite another empire into a Federation with you, 4 empires no longer being necessary to start one. Once a Federation has been formed, the technology is not required to invite new members or to ask to join it.

As I read it, an Alliance grows into a Federation once you have Form Federations tech and member #3.
 
Not gonna lie, not a fan of abolishing alliances entirely. I want to be able to have a military partnership without having to sacrifice some of my sovereignty to a federation.

There's defensive pacts and joint DOWs for that. Federations also vote on everything, so the only thing you're sacrificing that you're not already sacrificing to alliances is some naval capacity.
 
  • 22
  • 9
  • 4
Reactions:
There's defensive pacts and joint DOWs for that. Federations also vote on everything, so the only thing you're sacrificing that you're not already sacrificing to alliances is some naval capacity.

Well, you see, that's my issue. I would prefer if you guys got rid of the "vote to go to war" feature for alliances. It doesn't really have a basis in reality. It would be better if alliance members were automatically called into defensive wars and had the option to choose whether to join offensive wars. It would be much easier to get an ally to join a war than a non-ally who you brought in using a joint declaration of war.
 
  • 9
  • 3
Reactions:
Good point. Alliances require no tech. I wonder if that's what Wiz means by this:

As I read it, an Alliance grows into a Federation once you have Form Federations tech and member #3.

That still wouldn't solve the problem of vulnerability until the Federation tech is unlocked. The deterrence to aggressors, joint vision, joint defence and joint DOWs would have to be achieved through defensive pacts, sensor uplinks and savvy diplomacy when declaring war. Sounds like an added challenge in an already difficult early game.

That being said, I completely agree with those who say that the game should NOT be designed to balance MP.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
Federations

Good that options to influence others without just bribin them comes back to Federations! That one is currently really annoying! I hope you also rethink some of the distance stuff with diplomacy when your own borders might be far away but not those of your partners (be it Federation members or Vassalls). I hope you also plan to give the Federation Fleets some time and testing. Esspecially when the Federation members run on different FTL techs.

Habitability

I like that you'll reduce the number of habitable planets. It really seems there are a bit too many around. And although I have little problem to remember the current systems neighbours (and tend to genetically engineer colonists a lot anyways) I agree that the new makes more sence.

I would recomend a population finder for building Colonyships though. Big Empires with diverse populations (be it from migration, conquest or from genetic modifications can make finding the population you want (Ethos combination, babitable planet type and traits) a bit of a shore.

Game Options

For the game options: I still would like to be able to pick 2 out of the 3 FTL types as being allowed. But overall those introduced look good. With the starting positions you should have a lot of Mods that add possible options there.

Sectors

It is said that those are some new toggles/options. I really hope you include special building as options. Or at least allow us to directly order the sectors to build them (the way we currently can manually enslave or build droids there). Currently many nice global strategies seem to be only feasible when you plan to stay small or plan with a goverment that gives you a considereable boost at planets under your direct controll. Most notable would be when your Ethos combination allows buildings per planet that give much needed happiness and/or reduced ethic diversion.

Well, you see, that's my issue. I would prefer if you guys got rid of the "vote to go to war" feature for alliances. It doesn't really have a basis in reality. It would be better if alliance members were automatically called into defensive wars and had the option to choose whether to join offensive wars. It would be much easier to get an ally to join a war than a non-ally who you brought in using a joint declaration of war.

Well then you have what you want with defensive pacts since you can pretty much ask anyone to join you in an offensive war already.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
That still wouldn't solve the problem of vulnerability until the Federation tech is unlocked. The deterrence to aggressors, joint vision, joint defence and joint DOWs would have to be achieved through defensive pacts, sensor uplinks and savvy diplomacy when declaring war. Sounds like an added challenge in an already difficult early game.

That being said, I completely agree with those who say that the game should NOT be designed to balance MP.

If it's a huge issue we can always remove the tech gate on Federations, or make it easier to 'chain' defensive pacts. I also believe that being at war together automatically gives sensor in Heinlein.
 
  • 20
  • 1
Reactions:
In the last game I played I spawned right next to an advanced xenophobe empire. I got a defensive pact with a couple of federation builders on the opposite side of my empire and without their fleets I wouldn't have been able to fight off the first invasion and take a couple of planets. After getting an alliance (IIRC they wouldn't join a call to DOW, being a bit far away) we all piled in together and it felt very realistic that after building this friendship and fighting together we would co-operate again to finish the job.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
I don't understand one thing. So now colonizing techs are gone?
I can colonize every planet above 30% habitability from the start of the game?
Can I get to 30% by unlocking those 2 5% habitability tech, or modify my species, or that won't work either? o_O
 
If it's a huge issue we can always remove the tech gate on Federations, or make it easier to 'chain' defensive pacts. I also believe that being at war together automatically gives sensor in Heinlein.

Thanks for the continued great work and patience participating in these forums! Removing the tech or chaining defensive pacts could work. Alternatively, the "basic" federation could be present at start (common vision, defence), but then upgraded with tech to joint DOWs or other features.

Common wars automatically giving sensor uplinks sounds problematic; sometimes two empires are at war, you are competing with both but wish to keep the fight even or just take the opportunity to weaken an opponent, so you DOW one of them. However, you are still hostile to both. Given this hostility, automatic sensor uplinks would be annoying.
 
It would not be just from fighting the same person, but being allied in the same war.
 
  • 9
  • 1
Reactions:
I don't understand one thing. So now colonizing techs are gone?
I can colonize every planet above 30% habitability from the start of the game?
Can I get to 30% by unlocking those 2 5% habitability tech, or modify my species, or that won't work either? o_O

The two flat +5% might work since they don't require you to build something first. What definitly won't work is buildings that add +5% (though they might be enough to relocate someone there).

Well genetic alteration would be one way but then you would create a very unhappy population at some planet in your empire just to be able to switch to a different planettype. So you would only do that, if you plan to resettle or migrate them afterwards. Of course they might take away our ability to freely chose the new habitable type and lock it down to only planets from the same group (since they might not like that this way you more or less create a population that has less than 30% habibility for the planet they are currently living on). On the other hand it would be nice to still have the option should the two +5% techs be enough.

The best/easiest option would likley be to use a differen species that is part of your empire. Though since noone of the other two groups will migrate into your empire before you already have one of those planets that seems to be an option for conquerers only (unless you manage to peacfully get someone to be your Vassal and then integrate them).
 
3) You will be able to colonize tomb worlds from the start so long as you have something that can live there.
I hope this means we'll be able to genetically engineer someone for this. A xenophile pacifist can get a tomb world up to a base of 30 or 35% habitability, but they can't construct the necessary buildings until after the planet has already been colonized. If you're saying we have to rely on uplifted species, then those need to be made a lot more common; I don't get even a basic species in more than a third of my games (maybe a quarter), and I've never got a species with Tomb World preference.
 
  • 1
Reactions: