Stellaris Dev Diary #229 - Aquatics Species Pack

[grekulf]

If the portraits aren’t trait specific why not fit them in to current portrait categories? Unless they look like fish they’d most likely fit into mammalian, molluscoid or other animal kingdom inspired xenotypes. Maybe leave the fish portraits in aquatic and rename the category piscoid.

Looks really cool, can’t wait for the update.

I'd rather figure out a way to optionally list portraits by either DLC or by "biology" sometime in the future. Ideally portraits could belong to multiple categories.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

Question: Do Gaia worlds count as Wet?

 

[grekulf]

I love the aesthetic and the idea behind this but i ask me some things:

- Is ocean paradise the equivalent of gaia world or ecumenopolis for aquatics?

- Does we get a management of the depths of the planet? Right now we only see the surface of the ocean and we doesn't really have any management or view of the underwater cities, fauna and stuff.

- Will we get an underwater specie screen like the one with planetary diversity and aquatic worlds?

Ocean Paradise isn't quite the equivalent of an Ecumenopolis, but its certain good in its own right.

We looked into it, but there was no reasonable way to significantly change the appearance of the planet views or diplomatic screens to be dynamic and underwater.

Do you need Apocalypse and Aquatics to access the Deluge, or do people with only Aquatics only get access to the Colossus AP too?

The Colossus is unlocked by Apocalypse, thus you need Apocalypse to be able to use the Deluge.

Will there be a Megacorps variant of the Angler civic? Especially with the pearl diver job, it seems like it would be a good fit.

The Anglers Civic is available to megacorporations as well.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

- hydroponics don't require a district slot. And they're arguably essential for farming worlds. Now you won't get any anglers fishing in your plant domes. (Why don't they get algae farms btw? Hydroponics make no sense for a species already living in the hydro part)

Anglers replace farmers on wet worlds for agri districts, hydroponics and the food processing buildings.

 

[Unpixelled]

Ok I love all of this, this is some great new stuff and I wanna try it so badly but Devs hear me out. I'm a lithoid main and a massive lithoid fan so what about an aquatic lithoid (since you guys have allowed necroid lithoids)? It could have a coral looking portrait picture!

 

[Me_]

I was kind of hoping for the new Leviathan to be more unique and I would prefer for the trait to be tied to portraits. I am already annoyed at all the "underwater butterflies" AI empires that I will encounter.

Could we at least add a galaxy generation option "only Aquatic Aquatics"?

Overall though, this seems very nice. I think we are all wondering if the new Advisor will be a pirate.

 

[Turnil]

Does the new origin (Ocean Paradise) make life seeded even more outdated?

What life seeded gives you is 1 planet of 25 and ocean Paradise gives you a planet of 30.
Also, you can still colonize wet planets with ocean paradise while life seeded species are stuck.

Can Lifeseeded get a little buff so it stays special rather than become Ocean paradise light (make the planet 30 or give the planet a habitable moon)

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

I love the decision to make Aquatic trait optional for everyone. New origins excite me very much as well.

 

[James Fire]

So long, and thanks for all the fish

Also, this is the kind of game-changing stuff I like. Mining ice to increase the size of ocean worlds is one of those things that just makes sense.

 

[orochi2k]

So, in short, the sea will consume us all and there is an ancient old god floating above our world.

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

I love the aesthetic and the idea behind this but i ask me some things:

- Is ocean paradise the equivalent of gaia world or ecumenopolis for aquatics?

- Does we get a management of the depths of the planet? Right now we only see the surface of the ocean and we doesn't really have any management or view of the underwater cities, fauna and stuff.

- Will we get an underwater specie screen like the one with planetary diversity and aquatic worlds?

 

[Haan]

Well, this doesn't seem overpowered in any way whatsoever, and finally we can let Earth's second smartest species start an empire.

There will be a "thanks for all the fish" event right?

 

[Me_]

How many times can a planet's size be increased? Can the size 30 planet be increased in size? What is the upper limit?

 

[riadach]

I'm reminded of an Irish proverb.

Bíonn a cuid féin ag an bhfarraige - The sea will have its due.

 

[Lord Valdyr]

No I'm not. I'm sure I can make a list I wouldn't mind it appearing on, but that list is different for everyone.

My point is there are possibly immersion breaking situations where 3-4 aquatic species show up and NONE of them look the part. So having it only applied to species on the aquatic list just prevents those clashes. Some of us don't spam through games and appreciate a more immersive approach. This is no different from having 3-4 high minds stem up from cloth wearing species with hair styles, showing obvious signs of individualism.

Leave it to the players to pregen what aquatics they are okay with if they want. Don't leave it in the hands of the AI. It's just not that difficult of a concept are a tall ask. YOU are the one ignoring what others want. I recognize we all have a path to get what we want

Except your entire argument revolves around "Immersion", which is entirely subjective.
What is "Immersion Breaking" to you might not be for others, and your proposed solution might very well be Immersion breaking for another.
Your argument implies that all species in the galaxy must comply with earth-like biology and earth-like evolutionary tracks. There is absolutely no reason for that to ever be the case. Seeing a species of Aquatic Butterflies is more Immersive for me, since it would feel so much more alien - and isn't that what an Alien species should be?

Yet your argument would mechanically force that to never happen - which would inherently weaken my Immersion by forcing aliens to comply with earth biology, which alien species would have no reason to do.

You aren't looking to make the game "More Immersive", you're looking to mechanically enforce YOUR immersion standards on everyone else.

The examples given don't even really make sense. Even sticking with earth biology, there are examples that break your standards anyway. Aquatic Does not mean "Breathes Underwater". Dolphinoids are confirmed, which inherently proves that idea wrong - they don't breath underwater, they breathe air. So the trait must inherently mean a species that lives in and around water to a large extent. So with that idea settled, lets see:

Mammals? There's already a Platypus portrait, which is a creature that spends its entire life in water. Otters do as well, and many species of seal have fur too, though it's hard to tell because it's always slicked back and they are generally not amenable for people to pet them to find out. Those are all most certainly aquatic.

Reptile? There's a couple amphibian portraits in this category, and things like Marine Iguanas are a reptile that is very much an aquatic species in real life. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_iguana)

Avian? Seabirds are an entire category of bird species, plus penguins are inherently an aquatic species as well. (Not to mention the parrot with the dome helmet, which would technically work but is more of an amusing aside.)

Arthropods? There are tons of aquatic arthropod species in real life. Some of the portraits are even based on them already.

Molluscoids? 23% of all the known forms of sea-life on earth are molluscoid, so again, no brainer.

Fungoids? Aquatic fungal species are extremely common. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123706263001290)

Plantoids? Should be obvious. There's already a kelp-based portrait.

Lithoids make sense as there are rocks in the ocean, after all.

Necroids are a special situation, as they are basically just spooky humanoids.

As for humanoids, we don't have real world examples, since the few that exist that could be classified as such are inherently non-aquatic, but the popular cultural ideas of things like Merfolk and Sea Elves more than explain most of these possibilities.


As you can see, literally every category makes sense as possible aquatic animals.
I hate to be a bit blunt with this, but every single "My immersion" argument always breaks down to either a lack of imaginative creativity of the possibilities (Such as a race of Sea-Elves for the Elven portrait with the Aquatic trait, which is well within the realm of plausible science fiction, and thus easily justifies that portrait taking that trait) or a simple misunderstanding or lack of understanding of real-world counter examples.

Restricting portraits like that is inherently uncreative - it's forcing earth-based biological rules onto something that has absolutely no reason to follow them. We already are a bit restricted in the fact that all the portraits in game are kind of inherently based on real-world animals, which "real" aliens, should they exist, probably don't look like anything we could even think of, let alone put into the game. We have literally no reference point for what the "average" alien looks like. (Yet, as of this post.) There are many sci-fi stories about this very idea; about both truly alien aliens, and aliens that look like earth animals yet have an entirely alien biology. Maybe on their homeworld, conditions were so different that the most successful biological form for an aquatic species to evolve might just look very suspiciously like a cat here on earth. Hence, justified Fishcats.

Don't force others to be mechanically compliant with your immersion standards simply because you can't think of why they would make sense. Instead of limiting others, try expanding your own definitions. It's better for everyone involved.

 

[fodazd]

Sounds interesting. Some questions:

-> Do Gaia Worlds count as "wet climate" for the purpose of the Anglers effects?

-> Can an aquatic species also be necrophages at the same time? What about lithoids? Or all three of them?

-> Can Anglers be picked by Megacorps and Hives?

 

[Strangedane]

SHAME!

SHAME!

SHAME!


To quote myself from the announcement thread:

"Awakening old ones.
If this is not one of the new origins, I'll be horribly disappointed.
It could be doomsday on crack for all I care and utterly unplayable, but if we're getting aquatics and no cult of cthulhu, everybody working on this pack should be ashamed of themselves."

 

[karl2025]

Can we get a look at the new portraits?

 

[Nyrael]

I would have preffered limiting it to aquatic and molluscoid portraits. I don't like seeing AI empires with portraits that don't match this mechanic.

The developers can, and should, make it so that generated AI empires can only get the Aquatic trait if they have the Acquatic Portrait (unless it is one of the Empires made by the player). That's a better solution than just limiting it for everyone.