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Imperator Dev Diary - Greek Missions and Deification 3/9/2020

Nota Bene: Some of the new event images shown below are tied to the Magna Graecia content pack.

Salvete Omnes!

For the first part of today's diary, I'll hand over to @Chopmist for a look at some new missions,after which I'll be introducing the Deification system:

It’s that time again Archons, and this week we’re going to look at the last 4 mission trees of the new update, which unlike the Athenian, Spartan, and Syracusan missions will be available for free in the 1.4 Archimedes patch.


The minor tags of the Greek ‘regions’ of the western Mediterranean, Magna Graecia, Greece, and the Black Sea will get a single tree each to give them some historical opportunities and flavor.


These trees are partly dynamic, changing some objectives and bonuses depending on the location and nature of the tag you play as. E.g. Massalia and Emporion will not have completely identical objectives in the Far From Home tree, but they will be broadly the same.


Let’s take a closer look at each of the four mission trees and some of their related events.


Pan-Hellenic Government

First things first, the minor tags of the Greek motherland will have access to this tree, guiding them towards uniting the Greek city states under a singular government for the first time.


This tree will be slightly different depending on whether you are playing as an oligarchic republic/monarchy or one of the other republic types (though the latter are a bit rarer in Greece), reflecting the different attitudes to government. Below we can see the tree as it appears for oligarchic Argos.

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As an oligarchy/monarchy you will be following the ‘Spartan’ strategy of dominating Greece through garrisons and feudatories, while a democratic republic will attempt to foster a common cause through tributaries and allies.

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The main aim of the tree is to acquire enough land and subjects in Greece, diplomatically or violently, to be able to declare yourself the natural leader of the Greece upon which your feudatories will be annexed (if you are an offish oligarchy) or your tributaries turned into feudatories (if you are a dastardly democracy).

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Alternatively, you can decide to allow each of the historic regions of Greece to govern themselves as loyal feudatories of the central government in your capital area. This provides players who enjoy different play-styles and vassal swarms with an option besides ‘eat everything’.

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Regardless of your government, you will have opportunities to take revenge on Macedon, from liberating (and perhaps releasing) a single territory, to removing the Diadochi from Greece altogether. Finally, you can send a message to the barbarian kings by sacking the Argead palace at Aigeai, ruffling some feathers in the process.

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Hospitable Sea

Next up let’s look at the tree for the colonies of the Ponots Euxinos, or Black Sea, from the point of view of Olbia.

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Depending on your location and territories when the mission is selected, you will be tasked with conquering 4 territories in a part of the Black Sea, in this case the Chersonesus, or ‘peninsula’, today known as Crimea.

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The driving force of your expansion will be a randomly selected family, whose interests may align perfectly or contradict your own at certain times. For example, you may grant them holdings in a reclaimed Hellenic trading post, upsetting the original colonizers, or release the city as a feudatory and upset the greedy dominus.

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Ultimately, once you have established a dominant position in the Black Sea the pirates will need to be dealt with, and can either be recruited into your ranks granting naval and mercenary boons, purged completely providing a permanent tax boon, or encouraged to go and bother people somewhere else…

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Greater Greece

This tree will be available to the Italiote minor tags in Italy, and will task them with uniting the squabbling cities of Magna Graecia before they fall to Italic barbarians. Once again, there will be different objectives and rewards available depending on your tag. Here is what the tree looks like for Taras, perhaps better known by its Latin name Tarentum.

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As victims of years of infighting and the rise of unified Italic powers inland, you must try to unite the Italiote cities under your banner while encouraging the redevelopment of your ailing cities and small Hellenic populations.

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Depending on the history of your city, and who originally founded it, you will have some unique choices when it comes to deciding on a permanent focus for your nation.

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Steps can also be made to rekindle good relations with your mother city, and perhaps even gain an alliance in the process.

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Your first goal will be to form the Italiote League, rebuilding the federation of old but with a more unified leadership, before claiming the command of all Magna Graecia. There is also a chance that other Italiote cities will freely acquiesce to your leadership, depending on your relative strength and the threat of neighboring non-Greek states.

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If times are hard, you may enlist the support of a Greek power who will decide whether to assist you, representing the common calls to arms that Italiote cities sent to Greece.

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Far From Home

Last but not least we have the Massalian colonies in Gaul and Hispania, who can attempt to unify the old Phocaean colonies and counter the growth of their old rival Carthage. Here is the tree from the point of view of Massalia.


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The tags of this tree, being in a situation similar to that of the Euxine colonies (isolated trading posts along a long disputed coastline) share some of their opportunities, but have plenty of their own to be getting along with. As in the Hospitable Sea tree, a single family will emerge as the proponents of expansion and aggression.

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Retaking the lost Phocaean city of Alalia in Corsica will please your Massalian brothers and grant boons to assimilation and happiness across the country. As an aside, this tree is also available to Elea (as well as Greater Greece) as the remnants of the Alalian settlers who fled after the battle of Alalia.

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Once leadership of Massalian colonies has been established and your status as a major trading power is secure, you may look to forming a Phocaean League, uniting the Massalian colonies under your leadership.

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Finally, as an optional objective for the ambitious reconquerer, you may retake the ruins of Phocaea in Ionia and refound it.

As an addendum, here is the new map of Greece, where the following tags have been added: Elateia, Delphi, Amphissa, Oreos, Opus, Dyme, Pellene, Tegea, and Hermione.

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Ruler Deification

And now I'm back to give you a run down of one of the additional features in Archimedes, and something that will be unlocked for owners of the Magna Graecia content pack.

Several diaries ago, I hinted that there might be a reason we were adding dead characters such as Alexander to the game. In order to represent such phenomena as the cult of Alexander that sprang up in Egypt at around the start date of Imperator, deified characters can take a place in your pantheon:

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Various countries will be able to embrace pre-scripted deified characters, provided certain requirements are met. Deified characters are branched off a parent deity, and inherit their bonuses, but benefit from being able to have their own Holy Site, as well as some interesting effects shown below.

Characters with the deification tag will also be used to represent prophets or figures of interest in Monotheist faiths, instead of deities:

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Here, you can see that in addition to the regular Omen effects, all prophets or deified rulers will benefit from an additional effect, depending on which deity they were based. Judaism begins with a set of prophets, each with their own effects - to counterbalance this, we’re increased the default omen duration for the Jewish religion. Religions with the monotheist tag will be unable to embrace deities belonging to a different parent religion.

For owners of the Magna Graecia content pack, nations with the correct government forms (non-theocratic republics are excluded), will be able to deify past or present rulers, provided certain strict conditions are met, and enough political influence is gathered:

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A deification will transfer the effects of the deity you chose to base your deified ruler on to the recipient, giving you a chance to create your own holy site for your newly ascended kinsman. Every base deity will have additional (secret!) effects that will only be applied if the deity is a deified character.

Additionally, for owners of Magna Graecia, the Imperial Cult government type now requires a full set of Deified rulers in your pantheon - this will set you back quite a bit, as the PI cost for deifying a ruler increases in relation to how many similarly deified characters exist in your pantheon.

Until next week, I’ll leave you with this small, yet tantalizing teaser:

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Yes. A goal for both @Chopmist and myself have been to clarify missions, to make things easier to understand, with this Update. I feel like automatically pushing a player to complete a mission task would be confusing, and there are probably mission tasks you do not want to complete. E.g "release <place> as a Feudatory!", there will be players who want to make feudatories and there will be players who think "eh, I want this place for myself".

Reasonable. And with more variety in new mission rewards that makes a lot of sense. I would only want it pushed if it were something like the first missions that were mostly province modifiers claims or extra pops. Looking forward to it.
 
This looks pretty awesome and a good sign of the times to come that @Arheo is leading us proudly towards. Two questions:

1): Will Zoroastrianism finally be free of being characterized as a monotheist religion with this update so Parthian-style syncretism (Herakles-Verethragna, Aphrodite-Anahita) is possible?

2): Will it be possible to enact religious reforms or otherwise steer a polytheist religion towards a more monotheist system ala the late Hellenistic pseudo-monotheist philosophies?
 
Isn't increased omen duration a downside? There's no cost to activating an omen, so the shorter time they last the more often you can change the bonus to something else?

I think thats the point, since Judaism is getting access to more prophets earlier than other nations would they get a slight nerf to balance it.
 
Dear Devs, we have a few questions.

- Wil the respective generic greek mission be also available to Syracuse, Sparta and Athens in addition to their custom ones?
- Why does the metropolitan relations mission create an Italiote freemen pop? It would be better if recent immigrants had the culture of the mother city.

the following tags have been added: Elateia, Delphi, Amphissa, Oreos, Opus, Dyme, Pellene, Tegea, and Hermione.
- It is very good to see new tags, but why has Tanagra been deleted? If you wanted to strengten Boeotia, it would be better to make them a feudatory. That would allow Boeotia to integrate them soon if they want to, but leave Tanagra playable.
- Opous, Elateia and Delphi now separate Boeotia from Macedon. This makes the Phrygian guarantee to Boeotia completely useless. Have you removed it?

- as all the (greek) character names are in greek, why is Alexander the Great not Alexandros? Does the game still recognise him as Alexandros III in the list of macedonian rulers? If not, how does it assign Macedonian regnal numbers?

-Can charcters be given a nickname when they are deified?

-Will the deification mechanic allow declaring a character Messias in Judaism or Saoshyant in Zoroastrianism?

For now this tree is unavailable to Cretan nations, but any other minors can take it in the Greece region.

Edit: After reviewing this, we decided Cretan nations will get this tree too.
What about Epirus, Taulantia and Cyrenaica?

Finally, since you've confirmed that there won't be unique missions for Messenia, Can we repeat our question from last week?
it looks very worrying that Sparta gets some buffs and their first mission will encourage them to reconquer Messenia.
Even in the current version Messenia usually get conquered by Sparta very quickly, these changes will effectively make them the Ethiopia of Imperator:Rome.
It won't be much of challenge for a Spartan player and they could snowball very easily.
What are you planning to do to prevent this?
 
For owners of the Magna Graecia content pack, nations with the correct government forms (non-theocratic republics are excluded), will be able to deify past or present rulers, provided certain strict conditions are met, and enough political influence is gathered:
Do we have the very first game mechanic behind a paywall now? :) Great, meaty diary btw.
 
Why the fuck do the arrows in the Greater Greece mission tree cross, just swap the two focuses (foci?) around and the arrows don't have to cross.

You guys are making the trees less clear without a purpose this way, that's never a good thing.

This also seems to be part of one of the bigger problems with the game in general, a lot of cool stuff hidden behind messy UI. I know you guys probably find fixing the UI terribly boring when you could also be designing cool stuff in the meantime, but fundamentals are always the most important thing in a strategy game.
 
Wow! I love these additions to the missions. Dont bother too much about the fans who think missions are not what this game needs. I think mission will make this game come trully alive, together with new mechanics in religion (next update), culture, technology etc.

I have just one question I consider very important for the future of the game. Will the AI be able to follow and complete mission trees, including historical ones like it does with national focuses in HOI4? Or are there conditions that the AI will never or will verry rarely fulfill?

"Don't bother with other people's opinion's or good advise, my opinion is superior anyway"

Wow you must be a fun person to be around.
 
First of all, this is a great DD. I think the overhaul of religious mechanics are absolutely fantastic, and it's giving Imperator a unique feature unseen in any pds game before, plus, at least from the teaser we're getting, there's some genuine love put into the work of it.
Second, the Mission tress are awesome. Personally these is an aspect I enjoy a lot, as I prefer my campaigns to have a direction go step by step and get some rewards. I understand that most of the criticism before has been related as "why missions if there's other priorities" which is totally subjective. One step at the time.

I hardly believe we will see the Christianity until years and expansions forward. If we can still playing it is because the players wanted to play more, not that the dev had plans, right now for the endgame

On this I have mixed feelings. Of course I would love Imperator to go forward in the timeline (once it's current is solidly fleshed out) into the Imperial Era, successive internal crisis and then the Great Migrations, but it seems to me that it would require such an overhaul in its core dynamics to make it playable, that it seems too far stretched and a wishful thought.
However...
If you turn the clock backwards, this game with its core dynamics after 1.4 has so much potential for new Start Dates: Alexander and the Macedonian expansion and Greek Classical Age/War of the Peloponnese. If you played Imperator with the Bronze Age Mod, you can tell its dynamics run great with older historical timelines.
 
Will Judaism be able to get new prophets? (hopefully not, wouldn't make any sense)
The Maccabees have to be represented somehow. Although if deifications are essentially cloning gods (which Judaism doesn't have), maybe not.
Also, why is Moses the prophet of war, of all things? There are much more fitting candidates, like Joshua Ben Nun, who actually led the Israelites into war.
They have to divide up the prophets somehow, so you have multiple options for each one. I assume Joshua is also a war god, and maybe Caleb (who appears in the list). Although honestly I'd switch David and Moses, as someone else suggested. Hope that some of the minor prophets (e.g. Amos, Hosea, etc.) also get represented.

But for the most important part of any Dev Diary response: Typo Fixing!
  • Tooltip in Hegemon of the Hellenes event: "our feudatory in future" should be "our feudatory in the future"
  • Shepherd Corsairs event: "A large influx...have descended" should be "has descended" (the subject, influx, is singular, despite describing a group of pirates and ne'er do wells; admittedly this one is a bit of a nitpick)
  • Italiote League event: "far more unified version that has ever existed" should be "version than has ever existed"
  • Request Aid: Epirus Responds event: "sending soldiers, funds and agreeing to an alliance" should be "soldiers and funds and agreeing..." since the change of verbs interrupts the list (you might even want a comma after funds, but I'm not sure)
  • Massilian mission tree: "An Massiliot Coast" should be "A Massiliot Coast"
And yes, I know that proofreading is probably scheduled for a later point in the development cycle, but if it's there, I figured I might as well throw it out there. Other than that, it looks really good.

Will it be possible for vassals to worship deified rulers of their overlords? I'm particularly thinking of Demetrios the Besieger (and his father) in Athens, or the various Ptolemaic cults they supported among their subjects. Plus it would offer an interesting advantage to being a vassal (if your overlord has a deified ruler based on a deity you would otherwise have no access to).
 
Why the fuck do the arrows in the Greater Greece mission tree cross, just swap the two focuses (foci?) around and the arrows don't have to cross.

You guys are making the trees less clear without a purpose this way, that's never a good thing.

This also seems to be part of one of the bigger problems with the game in general, a lot of cool stuff hidden behind messy UI. I know you guys probably find fixing the UI terribly boring when you could also be designing cool stuff in the meantime, but fundamentals are always the most important thing in a strategy game.

I think in this instance it's probably due to those trees being created with multiple shapes in mind depending on the faction and ideology, as was stated, and not all combinations having been tested in game before taking the screenshot so this kind of mistakes may happen.
 
First of all, this is a great DD. I think the overhaul of religious mechanics are absolutely fantastic, and it's giving Imperator a unique feature unseen in any pds game before, plus, at least from the teaser we're getting, there's some genuine love put into the work of it.
Second, the Mission tress are awesome. Personally these is an aspect I enjoy a lot, as I prefer my campaigns to have a direction go step by step and get some rewards. I understand that most of the criticism before has been related as "why missions if there's other priorities" which is totally subjective. One step at the time.



On this I have mixed feelings. Of course I would love Imperator to go forward in the timeline (once it's current is solidly fleshed out) into the Imperial Era, successive internal crisis and then the Great Migrations, but it seems to me that it would require such an overhaul in its core dynamics to make it playable, that it seems too far stretched and a wishful thought.
However...
If you turn the clock backwards, this game with its core dynamics after 1.4 has so much potential for new Start Dates: Alexander and the Macedonian expansion and Greek Classical Age/War of the Peloponnese. If you played Imperator with the Bronze Age Mod, you can tell its dynamics run great with older historical timelines.

I agree, The Bronze Age is amazing and almost feels like a completely new game. Whoever made it should definitely get hired by Paradox (wink, wink ;)).

I also agree that later start dates would be amazing. I've always been more interested in the late-Roman Empire and learning of the bureaucracy and administration that went along with managing such a huge Empire. Internal mechanics and machinations along with getting the feel for the general mood of your nation have always interested me more than simple map-painting. A start date at the height of the Roman Empire during time of Hadrian simulating the gradual effects of the Roman Decline would be nice, or maybe one just after a certain someone crossed the Rubicon?
 
Finally Salamis is its own island. Remember the good old times when Megara was so friendly with the island they built their fortress on it?

I don't know what to feel about the choices of prophets. I have these questions in mind:

1. Wouldn't it also be sensible to revere angels in the Jewish faith? Still the same one God but different agents of Him. Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, the Seraphims, were definitely very Jewish icons to inspire the people.

2. I would feel the Prophets are on par with the Greek heroes like Jason, Heracles, Achilles, Ajax and so on. And now speaking of which, would it make sense to have heroes being revered? Not exactly gods themselves but every Greek still talked about them.

3. Deifying rulers seems like a very Roman thing. The Greeks would really prefer their heroes instead of their rulers if we are talking about building nice shrines in their name. Else the Pantheon would still be the same bunch of gods.

4. What about other cults? The Caves of Pan seem like a really backwater place for worshipping less "sophisticated" gods in the Pantheon.
 
So now I can build temples to my family and let everyone worship us? Hell, yeah, I'm on!
Will there be other Hero Cult deities aside from Alexander at the start of the game? For example, Diomedes of Iliad fame for Italiotes?

I wonder that too. Many poleis among the Greeks had their own set of heroes like Theseus for Athens or Achilles up north in Thessally (I think it was) and Epirus while Herakles was renowned across the Greek and Italic worlds (and could have spread even further to my knowledge). I don't know how much hero cults were established among other nations and peoples but I'd suspect it was not a unique Greek thing.

EDITED: Also an extended time line for the game would naturally also allow for many more mechanics that usually takes more time than three centuries or so to mould the world.
 
There are a whole lot more examples of "heroes" being a big part in Ancient Greece. Even a small island like Cephalonia had got Odysseus (in Ithaca) and Cephalos. It would seem each single place in the Greek world had at least some local myths going on about heroes or founding kings being revered by the locals.

It wouldn't be relevant for a larger empire. But imagine if you are a small nation with only a handful of land, of course you would want your people to revere in the local hero cults. Argos for example would be happy with Asclepios as their main diety, and Jason due to how their ship Argo landed there.

If you are playing as Argos, I am seeing how it would make the most sense if these 2 are made the main revered figures instead of other bigger main gods.
 
On this I have mixed feelings. Of course I would love Imperator to go forward in the timeline (once it's current is solidly fleshed out) into the Imperial Era, successive internal crisis and then the Great Migrations, but it seems to me that it would require such an overhaul in its core dynamics to make it playable, that it seems too far stretched and a wishful thought.
I agree.
If you turn the clock backwards, this game with its core dynamics after 1.4 has so much potential for new Start Dates: Alexander and the Macedonian expansion and Greek Classical Age/War of the Peloponnese. If you played Imperator with the Bronze Age Mod, you can tell its dynamics run great with older historical timelines.
I agree that it would be interesting to go back in time, however the I:R timeframe suffers from something that is not a problem for the CK2 and EU4 timeframes, namely those games have no problem populating the world at different start dates.

In I:R, on the other hand, particularly looking at tribes, this is a major problem. For example, currently you have tags like for example the Germanic and Baltic tribes that are attested in the first few centuries AD, but are put in the game at its start, in some cases half a millennium before they should be there.

I think this is not a problem if we have just the one start date, you have to populate the map somehow and aggregating tribes reported at different times is a sufficient solution. What happens, however, when you try to present a historically plausable populated map at different times - now you have to start separating these tribes according to history which means large parts of the map are getting blank and the world is not as vivid as before. This is a problem that not even archaeologists and historians would be able to sufficiently solve.

So i am perfectly satisfied with just the one start date and having the devs focus on bringing its particular histories and possible alternative histories to life as they are doing with the mission trees.