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EU4 - Development Diary - 8th of October 2019

Good morning, and welcome to today’s dev diary! As Jake foretold last week, today I’ll be talking about some of the Imperial Incidents coming in next year’s big expansion.

For those of you who have forgotten or for some reason do not read our dev diaries with fervent religiosity, this is what an Imperial Incident is:

DDRJake said:
“The other thing for us to look into today are Imperial Incidents. One thing we wanted to do was to make the Empire feel alive and rife with bickering princes. To that end, we have rolled some existing occurrences throughout EU4 and History, as well as many others, into a system that has the HRE both create and react to issues in Central Europe and the immediate vicinity.

When the conditions are ripe, an Imperial Incident can trigger for the Empire. All member states will be informed of the incident, and it will prominently be displayed in the HRE interface. The Emperor will then have 6 months to make a decision on the incident, with wide-ranging knock-on effects.”
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These Incidents give us the opportunity to both revisit old content and to design something new. Last week Jake gave a description of the reworked Burgundian Inheritance (which we might revisit in more detail in the future). Today I’ll show off two new event chains and their associated Incidents: The King in Prussia, and The Great Peasants’ War.

dd_prussia.png


Prussia is no longer awarded a shiny Kingdom-rank crown simply for existing. An independent Prussia must establish itself as a relevant power before it has the opportunity to claim its crown. After this event fires, the Imperial Incident begins and the Emperor must decide on how to proceed.

  • If the Emperor decides to elevate Prussia to an Imperial Kingdom in the fashion of Bohemia, they will lose 10 Imperial Authority but greatly improve their relations with Prussia. This will also anger any electors that have rivalled Prussia.

  • If the Emperor decides to accept the historical compromise - that the monarch may call himself “King in Prussia” but not “King of Prussia” - the effect is similar but reduced. The Electors will not be angered but Prussia will be only mildly grateful to the Emperor.

  • If the Emperor refuses to acknowledge any Prussian monarch bearing the title of “King”, Prussia must make a decision between their Kingly crown or their status as an Imperial Prince, potentially being ejected from the Empire. This will greatly anger both Prussia and its Elector allies.
dd_peasants.png


The Great Peasants’ War was a time of great upheaval in the Holy Roman Empire. Driven by religious, economic, and social woes the oppressed masses rose up across Germany against their feudal masters. This event can happen prior to the League War, which is delayed until this conflict is resolved. National unrest is increased throughout the Empire, peasant rebels are more likely to spawn, and countries that break to peasant rebels may become a Peasant Republic. While the Great Peasants’ War rages on, the game will track the success of the rebels throughout the Empire. After several years have passed and the dust has settled, the Emperor must make a resolution:

  • [Available only if the rebels are not highly successful] If the Emperor chooses to crush the rights of peasants, the Noble estates across the Empire will become more loyal and more powerful. This effect is reduced if the rebels are moderately successful.

  • If the Emperor chooses to grant concessions to the peasantry and enforce their rights, the Noble estates across the Empire will not only lose Influence but also some of their Land Share. The strength of this effect depends on the success of the rebels. This will mean that Princes of the Empire have more Crown Land, but they will also collect less taxes due to their concessions to the peasantry. If the rebels are highly successful, nations in the Empire will continue to become Peasant Republics when breaking to peasant rebels even after the Great Peasants’ War ends.

We have a lot more Incidents left to talk about: in the unspecified future I’ll talk about such Incidents as the Dutch Revolt and the Shadow Kingdom. For now though that’s all I have to say, I hope you all have a great day and that you return for next week’s dev diary!
 
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Battlex said:
Your fault for not juggling AE properly and improving relations, as well as not attacking coalitions before they get too big.
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Well you're right but for the wrong reason. It is my fault but not for failing to do the things you mentioned. I had 6000 dev in 1600. It doesn't matter who it is, they are going to have an insane amount of AE on you regardless of continent or religion as long as they can see you. I started in the China region and everything up to Bohemia was mine. I started attacking the Emperor (Bohemia) for fun, full annexing HRE OPM and 2PMs as non-co-belligerents. I took out Constantinople and as many other provinces as I could in 1530s against the Ottomans. So yeah, I didn't care at all about AE. Also no allies/VH because why not. My cav wins battles outnumbered 3 to 1.

My point was, that is fun for a little while, but it isn't really fun long term.
 
Me_ said:
While we're on the subject. The TO had a number of lesser holdings in the HRE. Currently, the Danish king has an event where they get a modifier giving them extra base tax to represent the holdings in HRE. I feel like the TO could be strengthened a little bit by giving them a modifier giving some extra base tax representing their holdings in the HRE, that would disappear if they secularize into Prussia.
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The Teutonic Order should be a part of the HRE!
 
LordHoth said:
The Teutonic Order should be a part of the HRE!
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The Teutonic Order had a unique position between the Pope and the Emperor. It was not an institution of the Empire itself and Prussia wasn't incorporated into it. It should also be noted that the Prussian administration was highly secularized as of the second half of the 15th century. The modern scholarship doesn't regard the secularization of Prussia as an event but as a process that ended in 1525 but started long before. I think it's reasonable to say if you play the "Teutonic Order" tag in EU4, you play the Prussian dominion ruled by the order in its entirety, not the order itself; the thing that evolved into the Duchy of Prussia, not the thing that lost the Duchy of Prussia.
 
Sataniel98 said:
The Teutonic Order had a unique position between the Pope and the Emperor. It was not an institution of the Empire itself and Prussia wasn't incorporated into it. It should also be noted that the Prussian administration was highly secularized as of the second half of the 15th century. The modern scholarship doesn't regard the secularization of Prussia as an event but as a process that ended in 1525 but started long before. I think it's reasonable to say if you play the "Teutonic Order" tag in EU4, you play the Prussian dominion ruled by the order in its entirety, not the order itself; the thing that evolved into the Duchy of Prussia, not the thing that lost the Duchy of Prussia.
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Well, it's not that straightforward...

I've been quoting this stuff in a few of the other threads around (Teutonic Map and General Baltic/Livonia Discussion) but there is good evidence to support the claim that both the Hochmeister of the Order as well as his subjects considered the Emperor to be their highest overlord (partly because this allowed them to ignore Papal commands and tread the ground in between). At the same time, indeed, the classical understanding of the Empire generally does not include the German Order and it's Livonian subjects in the Empire's borders.

But, also, in the 15th century the German Hochmeister was commonly found in the Imperial court and travelling with the Emperor's retinue. Similarly, arbitrage between parties in both Old Livonia and the German Baltic Sea towns was referred up to Imperial courts and new office holders received their regalia from the Emperor.
 
RMS Oceanic said:
The Emperor of China springs to mind. Or perhaps colonial regions reacting to these strange people from across the ocean, where everyone gets a choice they have to make about it. Or incidents that maybe help spawn historical coalitions against certain aggressive expansions, like the League of Cambrais or the Holy League against the Ottomans.
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an incident to unite the NA tribes in a single grand federation with unique mechanics would be crazy cool. Ahistorical, but Tecumseh did make the attempt to unify the northern Great Lakes nations with the Creek and Appalachian nations to stop the advance of USA across the mountains.
 
LordHoth said:
Well, it's not that straightforward...

I've been quoting this stuff in a few of the other threads around (Teutonic Map and General Baltic/Livonia Discussion) but there is good evidence to support the claim that both the Hochmeister of the Order as well as his subjects considered the Emperor to be their highest overlord (partly because this allowed them to ignore Papal commands and tread the ground in between). At the same time, indeed, the classical understanding of the Empire generally does not include the German Order and it's Livonian subjects in the Empire's borders.

But, also, in the 15th century the German Hochmeister was commonly found in the Imperial court and travelling with the Emperor's retinue. Similarly, arbitrage between parties in both Old Livonia and the German Baltic Sea towns was referred up to Imperial courts and new office holders received their regalia from the Emperor.
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Well these are interesting points you've collected but I can't really tell how this is a contradiction to my post. It isn't controversial that the order considered the Emperor its overlord and that the order had a close relation to the Empire and its princes. But it was not an integrated part of the Empire in the same sense as the Imperial princes. As for example Jörg K. Hoensch pointed out in his works about the Luxembourgians / Emperor Sigismund, he did try to integrate the Teutonic Order into the Holy Roman Empire, but it didn't work out. I see where you are coming from and your points do prove the unique and close relations between Order and Empire, but not a constitutional kind of territorial suzerainity of Prussia. Except for the first point about Konrad von Jungingen: this really is something one could busy oneself with and look at the primary source.
 
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Sataniel98 said:
Well these are interesting points you've collected but I can't really tell how this is a contradiction to my post. It isn't controversial that the order considered the Emperor its overlord and that the order had a close relation to the Empire and its princes. But it was not an integrated part of the Empire in the same sense as the Imperial princes. As for example Jörg K. Hoensch pointed out in his works about the Luxembourgians / Emperor Sigismund, he did try to integrate the Teutonic Order into the Holy Roman Empire, but it didn't work out. I see where you are coming from and your points do prove the unique and close relations between Order and Empire, but not a constitutional kind of territorial suzerainity of Prussia. Except for the first point about Konrad von Jungingen, this really is something one could busy oneself with and look at the primary source.
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I think my point is that even if the territories were not integrated similarly to the Imperial principalities, there is an argument for having a chain of events by which those lands could do exactly that.

Let's say that "The New Bishop's Regalia Have Arrived from the Emperor" triggers every time -- oh, wait, those Old Livonian bishopric's are not in the game right now... Is Riga an Archbishopric? It could trigger there, in that case, every time a new Archbishop gets elected and offers temporary Imperial protection in some form or another (I don't think it should be directly military but perhaps an attack against them would cause a diplomatic relations' loss with all Imperial lords?) for a monthly tribute (or something else) and if followed enough times would prompt for those provinces to join the HRE properly. Why the Emperor would want to do that would be a temporary boost in Imperial Authority which could be useful, especially in the early years.

In other words, there are plenty of possibilities to make the unique situation of those lands stand out a little bit better. Also, while I appreciate this is not meant to be history but alternative history, it would be nice to see Old Livonia survive longer than it does these days -- after all, the Muscovite conquest in the 1560's nearly failed and had the Livonian Order's army been modernised they could have won more of the battles.
 
Like others have said, there should be an incident that lets the emperor help the TO. Right now with the Danzig event they're doomed to die. As brandenburg you just have to conquer the cores you need and you dont need to go through the intricacy of a PU with ducal prussia.
 
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