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EU4 - Development Diary - 1st of September 2020

Good morning! This will be the last in my series of dev diaries about new content coming to South-East Asia. This week we’ll be covering another assortment of countries, with a focus on Lan Xang and Sunda.

dd_lxa.png


Above is the mission tree for Lan Xang, the Land of a Million Elephants. Lan Xang was founded in 1353, in the midst of the collapse of the Khmer Empire. A Lao prince, Fa Ngum, was given an army by the Khmer king and as well as authority to establish a friendly buffer state in modern Laos. Laos was once ruled directly by the Khmer, but the empire was no longer capable of exerting any control over the region. Fa Ngum was successful in his campaigns and carved out the Kingdom of Lan Xang, ultimately becoming even more powerful than the crumbling Khmer empire.

Some highlights for this mission tree:
  • Much like in the Vietnamese mission tree, one part of the tree kicks off with the conflict over the one-province nation of Muang Phuan. Owning the province or having it owned by your subject will grant a Subjugation CB against Dai Viet.
  • The Raid on Cambodia mission grants a Subjugation CB against Khmer.
  • You’ll have to Subjugate Lan Na using your own means, but once you do you’ll get a Subjugation CB against Ayutthaya.
  • Last week we talked about the Emerald Buddha mini-mechanic, and Lan Xang is one of the nations that must acquire the Buddha as part of their mission tree. I’ll get into the subsequent mission in just a bit.
  • I’ll also talk about the Avoid Fragmentation mission below, but essentially it requires surviving intact until 1700.

Lan Xang has also received a couple of tweaks to their national ideas:
  • 10% cavalry power increased to 15%
  • 1% Missionary Strength replaced with 15% Cavalry/Infantry Ratio

LXA can form Siam to get their more extensive mission tree as well as a new set of National Ideas.

dd_lxa_animists.png


I mentioned that I’d talk more about Lan Xang’s religious missions. Above is a new Estate Privilege for the Monastic Orders, available to Lao countries in the Eastern religion group. Lan Xang begins with this privilege in 1444. It greatly increases your Tolerance of Heathens and negates the religious unity penalty of your Animist provinces, but it also significantly increases the Influence of the Monastic Orders and entirely negates the +2 Tolerance of the True Faith from your National Ideas. The Convert the Polytheists mission requires that you revoke this privilege, convert all the Animists in your country, and achieve at least 90% Religious Unity. To help with revoking the privilege, completing the Steal the Emerald Buddha mission grants +20 Monastic Orders Loyalty.

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On the topic of religion, here’s the religion mapmode in 1444. Of particular note are all the Animist provinces owned by Lan Xang, the bastion of Mahayana Buddhism in inland Pahang, and the fact that Ligor is now a Siamese Buddhist nation.

I also mentioned Lan Xang’s Avoid Fragmentation mission. Unlike several other countries in the South-East Asia update, this doesn’t refer to a full-fledged Disaster, but instead it’s a series of additional events added to the existing Civil War Disaster if you are playing as Lan Xang.

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If during this Disaster pretender rebels occupy either Vientiane, Champassak, or Luang Prabang an event will fire that releases the respective country from their home state as well as the Khorat state for Vientiane and Champassak if you own any of it. If when one of these events fires you do not own the other two cities, instead your tag will change to either Vientiane, Champassak, or Luang Prabang depending on the circumstance. Players will be warned about these events when the Civil War Disaster begins for Lan Xang. You can prevent this from happening by either avoiding the Civil War Disaster, completing the Prevent Fragmentation mission, or forming a different nation (such as Siam).

Now on to a very different nation:

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Shown above is the mission tree for Sunda, with unique missions highlighted in red and the rest being the Malay mission tree. The Sunda Kingdom is an ancient realm, surviving through the rise and fall of great empires without ever establishing a hegemony of their own. For nearly all of their shared history, Sunda and Majapahit had excellent relations and recognized each other as equals despite the disparity in strength. This changed when the Majapahit leader Gajah Mada - having vowed to bring all of Nusantara under Majapahit rule - used a royal wedding to declare Majapahit’s supremacy over Sunda. This resulted in the Battle of Bubat in 1357, which Sunda decisively lost. Despite this, Majapahit did not go on to conquer Sunda. Instead, the Majapahit court punished Gajah Mada for his dishonorable actions and stripped him of his power. Sunda survived, but relations between the two states would never recover.

Some highlights from the Sunda mission tree::
  • The Consider Islam mission requires owning 4 Sunni provinces and fires an event giving you the opportunity to convert your nation to Sunni Islam, immediately converting several of your provinces. Alternatively you can gain 1% Missionary Strength and +1 Tolerance of the True Faith for the rest of the game while remaining Hindu.
  • The next mission, Develop New Cities, requires increasing the development of Cirebon, Kalapa, and Banten to 20. This will then fire an event prompting you to relocate your capital: picking Banten or Cirebon will immediately cause you change your nation to Banten or Cirebon. Whichever capital you pick, it will gain +2 additional development in each category and Kalapa will be renamed to Jayakarta.
  • The Rebuild Candi Temples mission requires owning at least 15 Temple buildings and finding an ally that follows any Buddhist faith. Completing this mission unlocks the Buddha Personal Deity discussed previously.
  • The Improve Rice Production mission unlocks the Improved Irrigation privilege discussed previously that reduced the development cost of your grain-producing provinces by 10%.
  • The Legacy of Bubat mission can be completed in two very different ways. One method requires that you become strong enough to guarantee Majapahit - this fires an event that describes a royal wedding between Sundanese and Majapahit royalty, and in a reversal of the betrayal preceding Bubat Sunda will take the opportunity to make Majapahit into a vassal state.
  • The subsequent Rule Java mission requires directly owning all of Java, and rewards a free Administrative Policy for the rest of the game.
  • The Conquer Lampung mission rewards Subjugation CB’s against every country with its capital on Sumatra.

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Shown above are the missions unique to the Spice Islands of Ternate and Tidore - they’ll also get the Malay mission tree. These nations have the potential to become very rich through a monopoly on the trade in Cloves, a new trade good discussed in a previous dev diary.

Some highlights for Tidore and Ternate:
  • The missions begin by tasking you with removing your rival spice traders from the map. Once you accomplish this, an event will fire asking you to select a location for your first colony. This will naturally great a colony in the selected location. Subsequent missions in the leftmost branch require the completion of these colonies and reward additional colonies on completion.
  • Completing this branch of missions rewards you with +1 Colonist and -50% Native uprising Chance for the rest of the game.
  • Export Cloves requires being the strongest trade power in the Moluccas node, as well as building to your naval forcelimit. It awards permanent claims on Sulawesi, which you pursue in the Conquer Sulawesi mission.

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One last set of missions: Bali! Once again, Bali also receives the Malay mission tree.

  • Bali begins as a tributary state of Majapahit, and its first mission requires ending that relationship while not having a truce with Majapahit. Completing this mission rewards you with a free colony on the neighboring island of Lombok. Completing this colony allows you to complete the Expand Eastwards mission, which then rewards an additional colony on Sumbawa and +25 Global Settler Increase for the rest of the game.
  • The Majapahit Refugees requires that Majapahit either does not exist or is a subject nation. This grants you a massive -80% advisor cost for 20 years, representing the flight of many former Majapahit nobles to Bali. It also awards permanent claims on eastern Java.

Last thing for today: national ideas for the formable nations of Siam and Malaya.

Code:
MSA_ideas = {
    start = {
        global_trade_power = 0.15
        land_morale = 0.1
    }
    bonus = {
        ship_durability = 0.1
    }
    trigger = {
        tag = MSA
    }
    free = yes
    settle_the_islands = { # same as malay ideas
        global_colonial_growth = 20
    }
    msa_advanced_galley_warfare = {
        galley_power = 0.25
    }
    msa_expert_haggling = {
        trade_efficiency = 0.15
    }
    msa_chart_the_seas = {
        own_coast_naval_combat_bonus = 1
        naval_morale = 0.15
    }
    msa_in_every_port = {
        merchants = 1
        ship_power_propagation = 0.2
    }
    msa_sea_nomads_steering = {
        trade_steering = 0.25
    }
    msa_spice_kings = {
        global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
    }
}

Code:
SIA_ideas = {
    start = {
        land_morale = 0.1
        global_manpower_modifier = 0.3
    }
    bonus = {
        discipline = 0.05
    }
    trigger = {
        tag = SIA
    }
    free = yes
    sia_royal_poets = {
        prestige = 1
        idea_cost = -0.1
    }
    sia_advanced_elephant_warfare = {
        cavalry_power = 0.15
        cavalry_fire = 1
    }
    sia_experienced_ambassadors = {
        diplomatic_reputation = 2
    }
    sia_encourage_immigration = {
        development_cost = -0.1
    }
    sia_integrating_the_realm = {
        diplomatic_annexation_cost = -0.2
    }
    sia_education_reform = {
        technology_cost = -0.1
    }
    sia_royal_absolutism = {
        yearly_absolutism = 1
        legitimacy = 1
    }
}

That’s all for today! This concludes the 8-part series of development diaries on content for South-East Asia. There are a few things I've done that haven't been featured in dev diaries and there's a possibility of more content for the region being added before release, so don't take these dev diaries as a completely exhaustive list of all SEA content. This content update for South-East Asis is something I’ve wanted to work on for a few years now and I’m very happy that I was able to see my vision realized before the end of my time on the project. I hope you enjoyed reading. Thank you and goodbye!
 

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For WC play, the Siamese ideas are fine. However, Mughals, Yuan, Qing, Manchu, and *maybe* the various Indian formables with 5% Admin Eff are much more likely to be successful at taking more land. Vassal integration is lovely in some respects, but because of the vassal idiocy and the inherent issues with vassal integration vs coring (it just takes longer), its really just not as useful.

Combat modifiers barely matter; 180 points saved on tech every ~11 years isn't a big deal; manpower becomes irrelevant really quickly; you're going to reaching 100 Absolutism before +1 really matters; development isn't super important for a WC. They're not bad for a WC, and much better than the other ideas here, but there's still at least a handful of Asian nations with better WC ideas already. Obviously, there's still a few better MP idea sets in the region as well.
Honestly, it kinda feels like someone tried to split the difference between a MP and SP idea set.
 
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In what way would it bad? Its ideas are on par with Yuan and Mughals. All of which require conquering land
...

One needs to evaluate national ideas set according to how easy is to form the tag and the average national ideas set in the region.

It will be easy to form Siam. And its idea set will be much stronger than its neighbours' ones.

I really dont understand why people think it is ok some tags being so much stronger than others for pure magical reasons, why a so unbalanced approach should make the game more enjoyable.
 
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At a more reasonable important time, tech 15 cav will be doing50% more fire damage than infantry and 2x the shock damage. about 75% more damage in total Not to mention this is scaled by 15% cav combat. Its GOOD its just whether the cost is worth is.

Tech 15 is just before the time you stop relying on frontrow damage though. At tech 16 artillery will for the first time out-shoot infantry (though it will not out-shoot Siamese cav), so the frontline increasingly becomes a defensive tool to keep your cannons away from damage.

Note on how Austria, the supposed diplomatic juggernaut of Europe, only has +2 dip rep and -15% diplo annexation cost

Austria is also the HRE and can play the PU game. Austria outside of Europe would not be a very good country.

+5% discpline and +10% morale are nothing to scoff at either. And the cav combat ability, if what the people above me have said is correct, could be similar in power to Poland's hussars, although we aren't sure yet.

The problem is that Chinese cav has a bad pips compared to Eastern Cav. From tech 22 onward, Chinese cavalry always lags one pip behind. And 33% CCA is better than what Siam has because cavalry shock is gigantic. And Poland has 5% more morale and 10% ICA on top, so Poland is easily more militarily capable than Siam.

Not sure its top ten, it's very close,

I personally see Siam's idea at the top of tier 3. Tier 1 is the gamebreaking idea sets ( i.e.Deccan, Yuan, Qing, HRE, Germany, most Hordes), Tier 2 is the most elite non-busted ideas ( i.e. Poland, Spain, Russia, Prussia). Siam still sits above countries like France or most Indian idea sets, but it's nowhere close to the top 10.
 
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Would have liked to see Makassar get some unique missions. I can't say I have any particular suggestions that would be based on history, but for game play purposes maybe trees that promotes uniting Sulawesi, expansion into Borneo, controlling trade in the Molluccas, converting to Islam or Hindu.

Wouldn't have be an epic tree since they can form Malaya and get access to that tree, but something. (Particularly because if it doesn't happen now during an SEA update than it probably will be a while)
 
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Would have liked to see Makassar get some unique missions. I can't say I have any particular suggestions that would be based on history, but for game play purposes maybe trees that promotes uniting Sulawesi, expansion into Borneo, controlling trade in the Molluccas, converting to Islam or Hindu.

Wouldn't have be an epic tree since they can form Malaya and get access to that tree, but something. (Particularly because if it doesn't happen now during an SEA update than it probably will be a while)

Historically Makassar expanded towards the north, fighting against several Bugis kingdoms and ruined Luwu Kingdom forever. They also showed great interest to lesser Sunda island, notably preaching Islam to Lombok. Just an idea for Makassar national idea
 
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One needs to evaluate national ideas set according to how easy is to form the tag and the average national ideas set in the region.

It will be easy to form Siam. And its idea set will be much stronger than its neighbours' ones.

I really dont understand why people think it is ok some tags being so much stronger than others for pure magical reasons, why a so unbalanced approach should make the game more enjoyable.

The Ottomans start out as a nation. No tag in the Balkans or anatolian area has close to as good national ideas.

So according to your reasoning the Ottomans ideas should be nerfed. Right?
 
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Tech 15 is just before the time you stop relying on frontrow damage though. At tech 16 artillery will for the first time out-shoot infantry (though it will not out-shoot Siamese cav), so the frontline increasingly becomes a defensive tool to keep your cannons away from damage.



Austria is also the HRE and can play the PU game. Austria outside of Europe would not be a very good country.



The problem is that Chinese cav has a bad pips compared to Eastern Cav. From tech 22 onward, Chinese cavalry always lags one pip behind. And 33% CCA is better than what Siam has because cavalry shock is gigantic. And Poland has 5% more morale and 10% ICA on top, so Poland is easily more militarily capable than Siam.



I personally see Siam's idea at the top of tier 3. Tier 1 is the gamebreaking idea sets ( i.e.Deccan, Yuan, Qing, HRE, Germany, most Hordes), Tier 2 is the most elite non-busted ideas ( i.e. Poland, Spain, Russia, Prussia). Siam still sits above countries like France or most Indian idea sets, but it's nowhere close to the top 10.
You must be judging nations on world conquestability, im judging them on winning a war vs another competent player. I imagine you're giving core creation cost a much much higher value than I am. Core creation cost is best in the first 20 years of the game because it helps expand while keeping up in time with admin tech 5 and 7, but it falls off fairly hard after that.

also on a side note, youknow artilery onlydoes half damage on the back row right? its good but its still not the majority of your damage at tech 16, its just worth the investment.

Also people give way too much attention to pips, 1 pip is next to nothing, its worth less than half a pip on a general, its good, but when rollsaverage 5 + 3 general pips plus say 2 cav pips, you're looking at the difference between 10 and 10.4 the equivalent of 3 or 4% combat ability.
 
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Some highlights for this mission tree:
  • grant a Subjugation CB against Dai Viet.
  • grants a Subjugation CB against Khmer.
  • You’ll have to Subjugate Lan Na using your own means, but once you do you’ll get a Subjugation CB against Ayutthaya.


Now let's adress the real issues with subjugation cbs , anyone that has played bohemia noticed that you cant use it if you dont want the entire hre to coalition you , the question is will you finally rework the ae it gives and test it ? and fix bohemia ? because subjugation cbs are unusable right now and locking the mission tree behind a coalition isnt such a great idea
 
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Now let's adress the real issues with subjugation cbs , anyone that has played bohemia noticed that you cant use it if you dont want the entire hre to coalition you , the question is will you finally rework the ae it gives and test it ? and fix bohemia ? because subjugation cbs are unusable right now and locking the mission tree behind a coalition isnt such a great idea
The HRE is extreme when it comes to AE and coalitions. In my experience coalitions are way less likely to form outside of the HRE because the density of nations is much lower and the culture/religion groups are much less homogenously spread. Truce juggling is also very strong in asia.

Nobody in SEA will care about AE generated through Dai Viet since they are in the chinese culture group.
 
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Now let's adress the real issues with subjugation cbs , anyone that has played bohemia noticed that you cant use it if you dont want the entire hre to coalition you , the question is will you finally rework the ae it gives and test it ? and fix bohemia ? because subjugation cbs are unusable right now and locking the mission tree behind a coalition isnt such a great idea
Bohemia is an extreme case, because A) aggressive expansion is doubled in the HRE, and B) If you are Hussite you will get way more aggressive exansion against catholics, which is all of europe at the start.
 
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Bohemia is an extreme case, because A) aggressive expansion is doubled in the HRE, and B) If you are Hussite you will get way more aggressive exansion against catholics, which is all of europe at the start.
one its 50% larger which is additive with same religion and same culture, so its actually only about "25% more"
secondyou still get the coalition if youre catholic.
 
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The 10% tech cost comes late. Even if you somehow form Siam extremely early, you can't get to your 6th national idea before tech 10. And Ayutthaya in particular will get little benefit from that idea as they have to wait until the Age of Absolutism to form Siam.



Bengal can go east and form Rajputana.



Konichiwa. Japan's military is better than Siam's. 15% ICA > 15% CCA + 1 Cavalry Fire



They are not. Unless the rest of its ideas ar trash, any tag with +25% CCR has a better idea set than any tag that has no CCR. And neither Mughals nor Yuan ideas are trash.

I'm talking about MP, not SP. IMO, national ideas are mostly irrelevant in blobbing singleplayer games.

There is no such thing as a mana saving idea coming "late," since you unlock all your NIs by the 3rd idea group anyways. Although 10% tech, +1 abs is not what makes this idea group strong.

We must be playing a different game if you seriously believe Japanese 15% ICA 5% Disc 20% Manpower is better than Siam's 10% Morale 5% Disc 30% Manpower and Cav idea.

CCR is literally one of the worst ideas in MP and is overvalued in SP, unless you are hyperblobbing and your limit for WC is your Admin points. Paper mana is the worst of the 3 manas in MP and easily the most abundant due to there being nothing to sink it into so nobody needs more of it to core lands.

Well, let me try. The tech cost reduction is kinda garbage because the only tech you take ahead of time is Mil, so you'll be getting at least a five percent tech discount on Dip and Adm tech, all game long. dev cost reduction is nice, but since you only need to push dev for institutions and you only need to have an institution when you take a tech, you can just sit on whatever tech you are at in Adm and Dip techs, take ideas and hit the dev button when you are almost capped out, eating the extra tech cost on Mil tech since Mil mana isn't that useful.

The Cavalry idea is pure, worthless garbage. By the time it makes an appearance cannons are blowing everything away from the backrow.

Prestige gives extra morale, better improve relations and absolutism gives Administrative efficiency and discipline and legitimacy reduces unrest.

Those are big deals.

I feel like I'm playing a different game than you.

We obviously are, because you don't have understanding of the multiplayer meta (or even general SP strategy).
Tech Cost reduction always saves 60 mana, regardless of when you take it. Now, technology cost NI is not that good, but that's not what makes Siam ideas strong. Also MIL points are easily the most important points in MP. The -10% Dev Cost is the real mana saver. Considering that most of a player's mana goes into developing their nation, Dev Cost reduction ideas are basically one of the best economic modifiers, since it saves thousands of DIP and MIL points and also lets you develop further easily for more building slots.

Even if the Cavalry idea ends up being hot garbage (it won't), 5% Disc 10% Morale and 30% Manpower is pretty respectable.
+1 Prestige is good but not vital. +1 Abs is even worse because you can raise absolutism easily just by using the Age bonus or dumping military points. And once you hit max Absolutism, the idea loses a lot of its value. +1 Legitimacy is hot garbage - legitimacy is mostly based off of the ruler and a +1 does not help patch that. Plus the boni for Legitimacy are somewhat mediocre, except for the +10 Abs.
 
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I seriously do not understand what sort of logic paradox uses when doing National Ideas.

Some tags have such ridiculously and unrealistically overpowered ideas while others have worthless ones, and without any seemingly historical justification for such massive discrepancies.
 
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The Ottomans start out as a nation. No tag in the Balkans or anatolian area has close to as good national ideas.

So according to your reasoning the Ottomans ideas should be nerfed. Right?

Ottomans has one of the weakest military ideasets of any major nation in Europe. They get 15% cavalry combat ability where Siam gets 15% and +1 fire and even that is currently argued as useless, Ottomans get 10% trade efficiency while Siam gets 15%, Ottomans get 5% discipline while Siam gets 5% discipline and 10% morale. I would actually consider Siamese ideas better than Ottomans overall, CCR is very powerful but you can circumvent that with Siam with the extra diplomatic reputation and annexation cost reduction.

Only real advantage Ottomans have why people think their military ideaset is good is because their units have absurd high pips early on. If one day EU devs remove the unit type system and I hope they will then it will become obvious how weak Ottoman military ideas are.
 
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