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EU4 Development Diary - 11th February 2016

Hello and Welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. This time we take a look at a concept that neither we nor you have not been entirely happy with in any previous Paradox game: Espionage.

In the next major patch, we have completely reworked how espionage works. No longer is every spy action done by just sending a diplomat that will perform the action for as long as it is there, but now there is a concept of spy networks.

You now send a diplomat on a mission to a country to build up a spy network. The network can reach up to 100% power, and that power can be used to execute spy actions, such as sow discontent, fabricate claims, etc.

Spy Offense has been renamed to Spy Network Construction, and determines how quickly you build spy networks in another nation.

Spy Defence has been renamed to “Foreign Spy Detection”, and now determine the chance of detecting hostile network buildups and disrupting it. A disrupted network will lose some of its power, and also make it impossible for you continue improving it for a time period.

Performing an action is instant, and as long as you have the power, success is automatic. However, networks that are not actively built will slowly decay.

You can also target other nations networks with counterespionage, to actively reduce their capabilities of their network.

gAZjY5C.jpg


There are three passive benefits to having a strong spy network in another nation. First of all, if you have the Cossacks expansion and picked the Espionage Ideas, you have access to Study Technology, which is no longer a source of power, but instead a possibility to reduce technology costs by up 30% from having networks in nations ahead of you (the size of the discount depends on how far ahead they are in each tech). Secondly, the new expansion grants up to 20% higher siege ability against nations where you have a spy network. Finally, the new expansion gives you up to 10% less AE in that country.

Of course, all of those scale with the power of the spy network.


Espionage now contains the following actions.

Fabricate Claim: Gives you a claim on an eligible province for a low cost.
Justify Trade Conflict: Gives you a trade conflict CB if conditions are applicable for a low cost.
Support Rebels: Selected rebel faction gets +10% chance to progress towards revolt each month for 5 years for a very high cost. It will also cost a fair amount of cash to support ythe troops.


The following requires the Espionage Ideagroup.

Sow Discontent, applies +3 unrest and reduces legitimacy, republican tradition, devotion or unity for 5 years for a high cost
Infiltrate Administration: Lifts Fog of War over the target country for 5 years for a medium cost.
Sabotage Reputation: -3 diplomatic reputation for 5 years for a medium cost.
Agitate for Liberty: Selected subject has +25 liberty desire that lasts 5 years for a high cost.


There is also four new actions enabled by the new expansion, two of those we’ll tell you about here, two others are for future development diaries.

Sabotage Recruitment: Gives 20% less manpower and Sailor recovery speed for 5 years for a medium cost.
Slander Merchant: Reduces Global Trade Power by 33% for 5 years for a high cost.

Of course actions that require previously expansions will still require those expansions.

Next week we’ll be back with a look at Africa.
 
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Sounds similar to how espionage works in Civ 4. You send a guy to the enemy, guy gets "points" up to a certain cap for being there, you can then spend points to get "spy stuff" against the enemy.
 
Hello and Welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. This time we take a look at a concept that neither we nor you have not been entirely happy with in any previous Paradox game: Espionage.

In the next major patch, we have completely reworked how espionage works. No longer is every spy action done by just sending a diplomat that will perform the action for as long as it is there, but now there is a concept of spy networks.

You now send a diplomat on a mission to a country to build up a spy network. The network can reach up to 100% power, and that power can be used to execute spy actions, such as sow discontent, fabricate claims, etc.

Spy Offense has been renamed to Spy Network Construction, and determines how quickly you build spy networks in another nation.

Spy Defence has been renamed to “Foreign Spy Detection”, and now determine the chance of detecting hostile network buildups and disrupting it. A disrupted network will lose some of its power, and also make it impossible for you continue improving it for a time period.

Performing an action is instant, and as long as you have the power, success is automatic. However, networks that are not actively built will slowly decay.

You can also target other nations networks with counterespionage, to actively reduce their capabilities of their network.

gAZjY5C.jpg


There are three passive benefits to having a strong spy network in another nation. First of all, if you have the Cossacks expansion and picked the Espionage Ideas, you have access to Study Technology, which is no longer a source of power, but instead a possibility to reduce technology costs by up 30% from having networks in nations ahead of you (the size of the discount depends on how far ahead they are in each tech). Secondly, the new expansion grants up to 20% higher siege ability against nations where you have a spy network. Finally, the new expansion gives you up to 10% less AE in that country.

Of course, all of those scale with the power of the spy network.


Espionage now contains the following actions.

Fabricate Claim: Gives you a claim on an eligible province for a low cost.
Justify Trade Conflict: Gives you a trade conflict CB if conditions are applicable for a low cost.
Support Rebels: Selected rebel faction gets +10% chance to progress towards revolt each month for 5 years for a very high cost. It will also cost a fair amount of cash to support ythe troops.


The following requires the Espionage Ideagroup.

Sow Discontent, applies +3 unrest and reduces legitimacy, republican tradition, devotion or unity for 5 years for a high cost
Infiltrate Administration: Lifts Fog of War over the target country for 5 years for a medium cost.
Sabotage Reputation: -3 diplomatic reputation for 5 years for a medium cost.
Agitate for Liberty: Selected subject has +25 liberty desire that lasts 5 years for a high cost.


There is also four new actions enabled by the new expansion, two of those we’ll tell you about here, two others are for future development diaries.

Sabotage Recruitment: Gives 20% less manpower and Sailor recovery speed for 5 years for a medium cost.
Slander Merchant: Reduces Global Trade Power by 33% for 5 years for a high cost.

Of course actions that require previously expansions will still require those expansions.

Next week we’ll be back with a look at Africa.

Can we talk about how obnoxious it is to have no way to stop Agitate for Liberty or support independence? How about a CB that forces them to revoke it and/or punishes for spy actions?
 
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Sounds similar to how espionage works in Civ 4. You send a guy to the enemy, guy gets "points" up to a certain cap for being there, you can then spend points to get "spy stuff" against the enemy.

It was a good system though. (Except for the part where most of the actions were useless)
 
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The changes sound reasonably okay, but I feel like, in order for them to truly feel satisfying and enjoyable, diplomats and espionage would need to be decoupled entirely. Otherwise you're constantly having to play a game of diplomat shuffling to both improve relations and build spy networks, and that sounds like it could get real annoying real fast, especially in the HRE where AE reduction is crucial.
The improve relations shuffle is already annoying. I think it should be fixed regardless.
 
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This sounds great. Espionage certainly seems much more useful and interesting with those changes.
However, I think your proposed changes will "fix" espionage itself without fixing the espionage idea group, and the - by now famously underpowered - idea group was in far more need of improvement than espionage as such.
While the rework sounds really cool, it seems to me that none of the best benefits of espionage are exclusive to the espionage idea group.

I mean, it seems to me that all of these spy-actions/passive spy-benefits are stronger any of the idea group exclusive spy actions (the list itself is not ordered):
Up to 20 % siege ability
Up to 10 % AE reduction with the target
Up to 30 % tech cost reduction (to be fair, it was a bit unclear to me, whether that was espionage idea group exclusive)
Slander Merchant
Sabotage recruiment
Fabricate claim

In other words, it seems to me that I can get all the best of benefits of espionage, without taking the espionage idea group. So while these changes will make espionage a good deal more interesting and useful, it seems to me that the idea group will still be pretty subpar. Imho, you should make some of the new cool stuff idea group exclusive, like the increse in siege ability or Slander merchants/ sabotage recruitment instead of the pretty lack-lustre sabotage reputation and sow discontent, which I just cannot see choosing espionage ideas in order to access.

Of course I realize I have not seen the full changes to espionage itself or the idea group, but tihs is the impression I was left with.

Tl;dr: These changes make espionage itself more important, but after these changes are made espionage ideas will probably still suck.

Getting that high bonuses without esionage ideas is really tough. Slander and Sabotage require espionage ideas as well.
 
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i took a closer look on the map changes and here is what i made out:
  • Gardinas, Trakai, Vilnius and Braslaw have been realigned to cover the same combined area but in a different configuration.
  • lots of cosmetic changes to Polotsk, Vitebsk and Smolensk.
  • Bryansk and Severia reconfigured, and a new province of Odoyev carved out of them and a piece of Kursk to represent the tiny principalities of upper Oka.
  • cosmetic changes to Minsk, Mogilev and Chernigov, and possibly a new province inserted between them and Kiev, likely to represent Mazyr or Gomel. (i'm not 100% of this one, as it's mostly covered by the "HU" in 'Lithuania'.)
  • there's also quite a few changes in Russia and Livonia, most of them cosmetic, but some bigger stuff as well. Kholm and Torzhok were greatly increased at the expense of Novgorod. Beloozero was split up into at least two provinces. the same may have happened to Kargopol (you can see it at the very top of the screenshot), or it's just a major redrawing of its northern border.
  • also i kinda see a new province in Finland.
EDIT:
  • also what looks like four or five new provinces in Hungary and Transylvania (one of them likely detached from Szabolcs, then Hunyad appears divided in three, either Temes or Torontal was broken in half, and possibly Slavonia was split (or just a part of it reassigned to Torontal across the river)).
  • Sweden underwent a slight redrawing as well, with Östergötland either reduced or split up.
 
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Getting that high bonuses without esionage ideas is really tough. Slander and Sabotage require espionage ideas as well.

Well, then I just misunderstood the DD, and my worries are addressed. This will be quite the improvement to espionage ideas. Thank you for answering.
 
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I still think sow discontent and support rebels should be based on a fixed amount of money rather than a percentage of my income. These are the best actions from the espionage idea group but they cost an arm and a leg to use so they are mostly useless.

Also how does spy efficiency affect all the new changes? Has local spy offense and national spy offense been locked at because they are both really wonky concepts and I just don't understand them.
 
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IMO it's more interesting to get a new ability than just a numerical bonus. Forced march, for example, feels much more lame now that everyone gets it.
I'd agree gameplay wise but not realistically.
 
Sabotage Recruitment: Gives 20% less manpower and Sailor recovery speed for 5 years for a medium cost.
Slander Merchant: Reduces Global Trade Power by 33% for 5 years for a high cost.
Are espionage ideas required for those?
Also, just to clarify, "cost" refers to paying with some of your spy network's power?

Edit: Can those actions be stacked, if you are targeted by more than 1 country?
Can every little OPM reduce the manpower recovery speed of an 1000+ development empire?
 
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I had high expectation with new espionage system yet still there is no feature making them great namely: assassination. Killing rulers, heirs, generals/admirals would make it great and having high spy defense would be crucial. Moreover still not possible to poison wells, supplies of the armies to hamper their movement and increase attrition. Still no setting fires in cities, blowing up the mines to hamper production , destroying ships, dockyards to make merchants cry and so on. I guess I need to wait till EV for this.

Since there are relatively few ways of increasing spy defense, increasing the effectiveness of espionage TOO much will make taking the Espionage group mandatory, which is just as bad as its current nigh-useless state. It's not like improving your military which, while mandatory, at least allows you have the choice of 4-5 idea groups to bolster your might (as well as spending MP on generals, building hiring lots of mercenaries, etc)
 
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Africa next week, great news! Hopefully we get some new provinces and tags (Maures and Madagascar come to mind)

Given the fact that France established a colony after a war with the local Merina kingdom , there should at least be something before "madagascar"... if not the Merina Kingdom, itself credited to be created in the first decades of 1500, at least a tribal state of the Imerina
 
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What is the blood money? Ottomans only 12 regiments in 1444. LOL