Werewolf LXXXIX: Werewolf Air

[Eternaly_Lost]

What the Lemearding hell was that all about? :s

This is how it was set up.

Seer A, can only find Wolfs of type A
Seer B, can only find Wolfs of type B.

Type is the same as pack, and if a Seer A scan Wolf B. He shows up as a villager.

Fail right there, as both sides think that it
Seer scans a wolf, it shows up as a wolf.

You have to realize that all Pack-Specific seers work out to be is another side.

So this should have been, Werewolves, Mafia and Cultists. There was 3 baddie sides, and that why it was so confusing. Calling two wolfs packs is wrong, and if you think otherwise, you might as well drop the cultists and priest call it werewolf packs A, B, and C. And Seer A can only scan A or C, and Seer B can only Scan for B.

 

[Eternaly_Lost]

The Van Helsings would have functioned as the Seer/Priest equivalents, meaning that the regular Seer w/ pack flavor would eliminate people who could be from certain packs according to their behavior. The VH Priest would ping the VH seer as a VH, and vice versa. They could have rapidly build up a set of people that were non-wolf/non-baddie night actors/not from x or y pack AND not baddie pingers. Not to mention FOUR protectors, (lover, 2 docs and GA), ALL the leaders (the cursed leader was FOURTH in command), brothers that would have had an interest in killing the wolves ASAP so they both win, else risk being plunged into one side or another, and the spies.

The potential for a very very strong JL needed a strong baddie force, (thus the mindbreaker) and a neutral (conman) that could, would and did tilt the balance for the game.

Velasco screwed the game up VERY badly, should have just given him the scan disruptor gig or a back-up leader.

Yea, he did mess up the game, killing the seer because I called him the 1st in command...

 

[Ciryandor]

This is how it was set up.

Seer A, can only find Wolfs of type A
Seer B, can only find Wolfs of type B.

Type is the same as pack, and if a Seer A scan Wolf B. He shows up as a villager.

Fail right there, as both sides think that it
Seer scans a wolf, it shows up as a wolf.

You have to realize that all Pack-Specific seers work out to be is another side.

So this should have been, Werewolves, Mafia and Cultists. There was 3 baddie sides, and that why it was so confusing. Calling two wolfs packs is wrong, and if you think otherwise, you might as well drop the cultists and priest call it werewolf packs A, B, and C. And Seer A can only scan A or C, and Seer B can only Scan for B.

randakar can check out the PM I sent him, because I specifically said that THEY KNOW they can only check for a certain kind of wolf. It would have retarded JL formation for a bit, because pinging a potential wolf could be really bad, but with the starting line-up, it would have only been a matter of time before they could completely clear a single villager of wolfishness.

 

[Ciryandor]

For anyone who wishes to dissect all the PMs AND the votes (including silences) link is provided below for a zip file. Beware, 10 DL limit!

http://rapidshare.com/files/401065096/Werewolf_Game_89.zip

Pin me up for another big!

And critiques for the roles/traits? I know they're spicy and going to be rarely used, but they do have potential.

 

[Rysz]

The setup was utter fail, yes.

I agree. Also too complex, too many traits for too many non-villagers (only 2?), and too many special rules, like pack-specific traits, odd hunting nights (ABBAABBAABBA?). It might have been fun for those that knew what was going on, or were involved in the inner workings, but for those who were not (and the ghosts), this game didn't make sense and was impossible to follow.

I like a little variation in a while, and some skilled GM's can go completely wild, but I would recommend for every "new" GM to first do a normal game, with normal roles and normal setup, and not too many traits, and certainly not certain combinations of traits. I used to do like 2 or 3 each of blessed, cursed, SA, brutal (only wolves) and such. Then with 1 seer, 1 preist, 1 DOC, 1 GA, 2 packs of about 1/6th number of players (including cultist) and a seer. Perhaps 2 lovers or something like that. The rest are villagers, should be around half or a bit less of the roster...

I think you went overboard with the setup. I didn't even want to sub back in after I got killed.

Feel free to GM again sometime, but just try a normal setup a few times before adventuring in unknown areas.

All that being said, there were memorable moments, even for ghosts as myself, so thank you for GMing though

 

[Eternaly_Lost]

For anyone who wishes to dissect all the PMs AND the votes (including silences) link is provided below for a zip file. Beware, 10 DL limit!

http://rapidshare.com/files/401065096/Werewolf_Game_89.zip

Pin me up for another big!

And critiques for the roles/traits? I know they're spicy and going to be rarely used, but they do have potential.

Why not use Megaupload? If you make a (free) account the file last for 90 days rather then 10 downloads. That is sure to cover everyone that might want it in the near future.

If you ever need a file to last forever, you do need to upgrade your account to a paid one, but it good enough for small files.

I have uploaded it for you case your link runs out, but you might want to keep that in mind for next time. Even if you don't want to make an account the file last for 21 days, that should be more then enough time.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EEJ10ETU

 

[Velasco]

So we are all agreed that EL messed up the game by saying Snoopdoog was first in command and forcing me to kill him? :rofl:

 

[jonti-h]

So we are all agreed that EL messed up the game by saying Snoopdoog was first in command and forcing me to kill him? :rofl:

 

[Ciryandor]

I agree. Also too complex, too many traits for too many non-villagers (only 2?), and too many special rules, like pack-specific traits, odd hunting nights (ABBAABBAABBA?). It might have been fun for those that knew what was going on, or were involved in the inner workings, but for those who were not (and the ghosts), this game didn't make sense and was impossible to follow.

I like a little variation in a while, and some skilled GM's can go completely wild, but I would recommend for every "new" GM to first do a normal game, with normal roles and normal setup, and not too many traits, and certainly not certain combinations of traits. I used to do like 2 or 3 each of blessed, cursed, SA, brutal (only wolves) and such. Then with 1 seer, 1 preist, 1 DOC, 1 GA, 2 packs of about 1/6th number of players (including cultist) and a seer. Perhaps 2 lovers or something like that. The rest are villagers, should be around half or a bit less of the roster...

I think you went overboard with the setup. I didn't even want to sub back in after I got killed.

Feel free to GM again sometime, but just try a normal setup a few times before adventuring in unknown areas.

All that being said, there were memorable moments, even for ghosts as myself, so thank you for GMing though

At the very least, I think I did fulfill the objective of having people follow the game, not quite forcing them, but giving them some reason to play around with it. *points to Velasco* I hate the trend of inactivity because of a lack of a stake from villagers in Bigs and only Syber had to sub because of not voting, others had other issues... so I personally feel, that though the game might be imbalanced by overloading, that it was successful in forcing people to pay attention and not play the sheep. I have to find a better way to provide the "OMG we must participate in the village" mentality in Bigs without compromising balance. Too many plain villagers is conducive to such thoughts. o

Also, I don't trust megaupload because it screws up whenever I DL stuff from it. VERY KINKY stuff.

 

[Rysz]

At the very least, I think I did fulfill the objective of having people follow the game, not quite forcing them, but giving them some reason to play around with it. *points to Velasco* I hate the trend of inactivity because of a lack of a stake from villagers in Bigs and only Syber had to sub because of not voting, others had other issues... so I personally feel, that though the game might be imbalanced by overloading, that it was successful in forcing people to pay attention and not play the sheep. I have to find a better way to provide the "OMG we must participate in the village" mentality in Bigs without compromising balance. Too many plain villagers is conducive to such thoughts. o

Also, I don't trust megaupload because it screws up whenever I DL stuff from it. VERY KINKY stuff.

Hmm... I can understand your thoughts, and although I agree with the sentiment, I don't know if less villagers is the solution. Because if you aren't a special with a specific role, (and hence part of all the behind-the-screens stuff) it's hard to be able to get an idea of what's going on. Some people will react with trying harder to analyize it for themselves, others will lean back and wait to see what will happen.

Also in Big game it is usual that the activity is low in the beginning, and raises later on, even for villagers, as long as there is enough in the thread for them to work with. If everything moves behind the scenes, it gets difficult for them. This would only work if they can form their own thoughts on who has what role, but for this to work, the rules and roles need to be clear and regular, or else they have to start doubting whether something happens because of the rules, or because people's story does not feel right.

Pack-specific seers, as you say it yourself, you "need to realized" how they work. Usually this happens too late, and for a simple villager will never make any sense at all. The seer will loose cred if some part of his role is odd, making it all the more difficult for villagers to find out what's happening, whether someones claim to be something is legit or not.

 

[trespoe]

Here's the GM mini-AAR and Role Distribution:

Roles

2 Brothers (1 SA, 1 Blessed) *if one is lynched, the other becomes a brutal cultist; if one is lunched. the other becomes a Hunter Apprentice / wins regardless of side if both survive, do not count towards baddie parity*

First, it was a good game, but a little over-ambitious. a wee bit complicated in that it seems you forget certain roles/traits (like Calamity's) Speaking of which...

I am confused about the brother part. Was I SA or Blessed, and I became an apprentice? should I have become Randakar's apprentice? I am a little confused here.....

I did figure out that we were unaligned, and the other goes against the side that kills the brother (village or wolf)

 

[Ciryandor]

Hmm... I can understand your thoughts, and although I agree with the sentiment, I don't know if less villagers is the solution. Because if you aren't a special with a specific role, (and hence part of all the behind-the-screens stuff) it's hard to be able to get an idea of what's going on. Some people will react with trying harder to analyize it for themselves, others will lean back and wait to see what will happen.

Also in Big game it is usual that the activity is low in the beginning, and raises later on, even for villagers, as long as there is enough in the thread for them to work with. If everything moves behind the scenes, it gets difficult for them. This would only work if they can form their own thoughts on who has what role, but for this to work, the rules and roles need to be clear and regular, or else they have to start doubting whether something happens because of the rules, or because people's story does not feel right.

Pack-specific seers, as you say it yourself, you "need to realized" how they work. Usually this happens too late, and for a simple villager will never make any sense at all. The seer will loose cred if some part of his role is odd, making it all the more difficult for villagers to find out what's happening, whether someones claim to be something is legit or not.

It would be a low intelligence threshold if people could not get how pack-specific scanners worked. (remember this from another big game which had a similar set-up for seers); but a couple of small tweaks to a standard set-up, maybe in the next game I GM... would be interesting.

As for roles/traits:

Silencer can be a game-changer if it were for the "same vote cycle" as the PM sent in, so it seems balanced as it is (you need some foresight to leverage it), and the Con-Man would be powerful in a Seer-Priest-Sorc only set-up, especially if given a spying capability, so I guess they can balance stuff out. Identity thief wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been (had EURO been last wolf, the goodies AND him would have won i.e. he could have betrayed a packmate so he could win.

 

[Ciryandor]

First, it was a good game, but a little over-ambitious. a wee bit complicated in that it seems you forget certain roles/traits (like Calamity's) Speaking of which...

I am confused about the brother part. Was I SA or Blessed, and I became an apprentice? should I have become Randakar's apprentice? I am a little confused here.....

I did figure out that we were unaligned, and the other goes against the side that kills the brother (village or wolf)

Blessed. You were "yellow" because you could potentially win w/out having to take sides.
No apprenticeships for brothers... though that could be a crazy idea... That meant that had you been hunted these last 2 days, that would have been a no-kill.

 

[AOK. 11]

 

[jonti-h]

Eyebleach please NAO

 

[walrus]

What have I started now......

 

[jonti-h]

What have I started now......

iunno, but I wish you bleeding hadn't.

 

[Yakman]

terrorists win despite euroo7!!! Way to go white daimon and hax!!!!

 

[walrus]

iunno, but I wish you bleeding hadn't.

Tell me about it

 

[Hax]

Thank you all