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Originally posted by Doomdark on 05-14-2000 01:55 AM
Marc,

If I played Spain, you would never get the chance to play the Netherlands. *evil laughter*

But I must confess I have little interest in playing Spain at all - it is far too easy. The same goes for France, Turkey and probably England.

/Doomie
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Doomie, in which situation is Spain too easy to play? I have seen Spain in the 16th-17th centuries compared to a bear attacked by four or five dogs at the same time: strong enough to kill one dog, but not all of them at the same time, and eventually the bear will die of exhaustion and loss of blood.

I would say that Spain never managed to create the 'Universal Hapsburg Empire' that Charles V (1519-1556) wanted to create because it had too many enemies and too many isolated lands in Europe. Here you have some examples:

- The annexation of Navarre (1510s)
- The struggle for Italy (1500s - 1550s)
- The Reformation and the Wars of the German Empire (1520s - 1550s)
- The war against the Turks (intermittent during the 16th century and, to a lesser extent, during the 17th century).
- Intervention in the French Wars of Religion (1550s - 1598).
- The Dutch Revolt (1560s - 1609, and 1621-48).
- The Moorish Revolt in Southern Spain (1570s)
- The annexation of Portugal (1580)
- The Spanish Armada against England (1588)
- Intervention in the Thirty Years War (1618-48)
- The Mantuan war (1620s)
- The war with France (1635-59)
- The Catalan Revolt (1640-52)
- The Portuguese War of Independence (1640-65)
- Louis XIV's wars (1660s-1715, including the War of the Spanish Succession 1702-15)

And all this not including the actions that took place in America and Asia! Perhaps the AI is not as aggressive as human players would be?

Kind regards to all.

Martin
 
Doomie, in which situation is Spain too easy to play?
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Well, in theory it might not be. If I had been the King of Spain in 1492 I might not have found it 'easy'. :)

However, in every single computer game I've yet played more provinces/cities means easier, because the AI nations are incapable of ganging up on you in an efficient way. Also, with the kind of income Spain had back then it would be the leader in research all of the time...

/Doomie
 
Originally posted by Doomdark on 06-07-2000 03:37 PM
Well, in theory it might not be. If I had been the King of Spain in 1492 I might not have found it 'easy'. :)

However, in every single computer game I've yet played more provinces/cities means easier, because the AI nations are incapable of ganging up on you in an efficient way. Also, with the kind of income Spain had back then it would be the leader in research all of the time...

/Doomie
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Yes, I agree. No AI can beat playing with other human players... yet! As I still have to test the AI used in EU, I'd rather not say any comments about this specific feature until I play the game! :)

As for Spain, please allow me to recommend a book on the subject. It is the biography of the Count-Duke of Olivares, prime minister of Spain from 1621 to about 1643, right when the fall of Spain as a world power was beginning to be evident (a slight tear here...) and I think it was written by a historian called Eliot some years ago. It was originally written in English, so I am sure you (meaning all members of this forum!)should not have too much trouble purchasing it. If anybody is interested, I am willing to provide the full reference of the book. In fact, it is a most interesting book, because it describes the European world from c. 1580 to about 1645 from the point of view of the Spanish government of the time, which must have been some sort of forerunner of the 'Domino Theory': if Germany is controlled by the enemies of Spain, then the Spanish Road is cut, then the Franche Comte is lost, then Flanders cannot be reinforced and is lost, then we lack the manpower and resources to properly defend Italy, then Spain loses all its posessions in Europe, then sic transit Gloria mundi! Quite a nightmare, in fact. :)

Martin
 
Quite a nightmare, in fact.
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Indeed... In a long-term perspective, Spain had little hope of retaining control of the Spanish Road and Flandres. That would have required the destruction of France as a Great Power, which was to all intents and purposes impossible. I am sure that both Guzman and Richelieu knew this.

The failure to defeat France in the 30 Years War was the last nail in the coffin.

In EU, Spain's primary objective on the continent will be to destroy France as early as possible. If you remember the Spanish AAR you will recall that this was not at all hard to accomplish. Hopefully the AI is much better now.

/Doomie
 
Hi Doomie,

I'm happy to hear that AI is much better now than it was when the spanish AAR was done. I was one of those who were a little afraid when they see how easy it seemed to 'annex' nearly all of France. And not only because I am french.

Just one question : how do you know the AI is better now. Just in comparison to the new AAR, or because s/o said it (and I haven't seen) ?

Raf
 
Originally posted by Doomdark on 06-07-2000 06:03 PM
Actually, it is only a guess. I said 'hopefully the AI is much better now'. I.e. I hope it is. :)

/Doomie
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Hello, Doomie and Raphael.

Yes, you are right (again!) I also read the Spanish AAR and I was also very surprised (and concerned) to see that Spain had managed to annex most of France. And I also agree in that, had France been defeated, things would have been much easier for Spain. However, in the end Richelieu was successful and Olivares was not (congratulations for that, Raphael! :)) Ah, if instead of a Charles II of Spain we had had a Louis XIV...!

Martin
 
Martin,

The problem with that AAR, was that it was played during the time when the A.I had gone pacifist on every beta tester.

This has been fixed though,

Sapura

[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 08-06-2000).]
 
If the AI has been fixed, then someone should start another Spanish AAR to see if it's still possible to destroy France in such a short amount of time.

I am also disappointed in the total lack of any language/cultural differences aside from religion, but hopefully the AI will be structured to react more angrily against countries who engage in rapid territorial expansion too often. I find that this 'Blitzkrieg' mentality often present in these AAR's is somewhat unrealistic. :(
 
Hi guys


Sap : 'The problem with that AAR, was that it was played during the time when the A.I had gone pacifist on every beta tester.

This has been fixed though,'

Thanks once again Sap for bringing us such good news. About the AI this time. I'm gonna wait impatiently for your next message. What will be next. For instance, the game is ready. :)

Doomie : 'Actually, it is only a guess. I said 'hopefully the AI is much better now'. I.e. I hope it is. '

Dommie, I'm sorry for my misunderstanding, I read too fast.


Raf
 
I agree with the blitzkrieg problem. I think Empire in Arms had a nice way of settling things: when you won a peace with someone, there was a time limit before which you could not go at war again against the same country, or something like that, I am not quite sure, it's a while ago; I thinks this worked unless you were declared war upon or called as an ally or something... I think this kind of system can do some good. Surely, any power that showed such aggressive behaviour at the time and conquer three provinces every year would rapidly face a huge Europe-wide coalition... (that was partly the case, IMO, of both Sweden and France)
 
behaviour at the time and conquer three provinces every year would rapidly face a huge Europe-wide coalition... (that was partly the case, IMO, of both Sweden and France)


Well, yeah there's a huge stability and relation hit to your country (as others see you), if you constantly declare war on countries that share the same truth faith as yourself. Annexing, militarily a country like that causes uproar in most of Europe with the same faith.

Sapura
 
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