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Things I don't like off the bat:
- Austria was an absolute monarchy for almost the entire game period, save for the few months of the Vienna Reichstag in 1848. No way they should be starting as a constitutional monarchy. No elections either.
- National cultures are off. South German, Slovenian, Croatian, Czech until 1848, Hungarian from 1843 to 1848 and again with the Dual Monarchy, maybe the Slovaks with the Hungarians as well.
- Lots of leaders, but no Franz Josef, Windischgratz, or Haynau. Definitely need at least Franz Josef.
- I'll have to putter with the game a bit to test out some game effects before adding some improved events. I'd rather not mandate via event what could be simulated by the game engine.
- Austria was an absolute monarchy for almost the entire game period, save for the few months of the Vienna Reichstag in 1848. No way they should be starting as a constitutional monarchy. No elections either.
- National cultures are off. South German, Slovenian, Croatian, Czech until 1848, Hungarian from 1843 to 1848 and again with the Dual Monarchy, maybe the Slovaks with the Hungarians as well.
- Lots of leaders, but no Franz Josef, Windischgratz, or Haynau. Definitely need at least Franz Josef.
- I'll have to putter with the game a bit to test out some game effects before adding some improved events. I'd rather not mandate via event what could be simulated by the game engine.
If leadership of Germany is contested why doesn't Austria get any claims in Germany if she wins the Austro-Prussian war? Also I noticed that thing never ends even close to correct. Maybe making events where if Prussia gets so far into Austria they sign for peace. Give the Prussians a couple options on how lenient the peace should be. Of course historically Italy got Venice out of it, and Prussia got war indemnitees. Not sure what Austria should get if she wins. Maybe Silisia and claims on the South German states while Prussia looses claims in southern Germany. Just sugestions, but I do think something needs doing. As it is you almost have to make Austria into a satilite to get Venice.
If Austria gets totally raped (war score approaching 100 in favour of Prussia) then there should be an option of "Force annexation", Austria, Bohemia are incorporated into Prussia, the rest becomes Hungary and Croatia.
If Austria wins big, definitely Silesia and an option for pro Austrian states like Bavaria, Wurttemburg and Baden to join Greater Austria - which should then have claims on all of Germany if they choose "Create Germany".
If Austria wins big, definitely Silesia and an option for pro Austrian states like Bavaria, Wurttemburg and Baden to join Greater Austria - which should then have claims on all of Germany if they choose "Create Germany".
That's way too radical. Besides, would Prussians really want to integrate Bohemia into Prussia? Besides, Prussians would probably not want Austrians to collapse completely, as that would spawn a boatload of states possibly hostile to a unified Germany (that especially applies to Hungary).
Well if Prussia's triumph means an independent Hungary - why not?
I dont see this event as any more radical than Russia's Tsar of all Slavs event - Russia incorporating every single Slav nation into their Empire. That particular event causes the Ottomans to collapse 90% of the time, maybe we can have a similar event here.
Its unlikely for sure, but I'd like to leave the option open for a miltary conquest to form GrossDeutschland. Right now the only way for this to happen is if Hungary exists in the 1850s, and that will never happen because Austria has 9999 divisions all the time. There should be another way to form a GrossDeutschland, in the event of a crushing victory by one of the two. However the penalty would be +5 consciousness and militancy for North or South Germans or Catholics (depending on who wins) and -400 relations with Britain France Russia.
Something like this:
Trigger: Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Budapest, Linz, Graz are occupied. Maybe a check for warscore if this is possible.
Choice A:
Only demand war indemnities (historical choice)
Choice B:
Create Greater Germany
Triggers Austrian Event "Join Germany?"
If Austria says yes.
Inherit Bohemia and Austria.
Independence to Hungary, Croatia, and Bosnia if its in the Austrian empire.
Set relations of these states to +200 with Prussia - after all it was Prussian victory that granted them independence. We assume Hungarian nationalists oust the Habsburgs.
South German militancy and consciousness +5.
Catholic militancy and consciousness +3.
Relations with Britain France Russia -400.
Ask all German states "Join Germany?" Even southern Germans join, because Austria is no more.
If Austria says no, revolts across all slavic lands, +5 militancy for slavic peoples. (similiar to the Ottoman choice "Fight on")
For an Austrian victory, Greater Germany will not be created as of yet. However, it will present these choices -
Trigger - Berlin, Breslau, Halle, Konigsburg (thats going to make it tough), Koln in Austrian hands.
Choice A - demand war indemnities
Choice B - demand Silesia
triggers event - The Question of Germanic Peoples
A - Keep Status Quo
B - Create a Germany in the South - ask Bavaria, Baden, Wurttemburg, Saxony if they want to join.
C - Create a Greater Germany. Ask Southern German states to join, and War with Prussia, and claims to North German states. I dont think Northern German states would join Austria this easily - they'd have to have Austrian soldiers knocking on their doorsteps.
Effects if succeed - as above, but change South German to North German, and Catholic to Protestant.
I dont see this event as any more radical than Russia's Tsar of all Slavs event - Russia incorporating every single Slav nation into their Empire. That particular event causes the Ottomans to collapse 90% of the time, maybe we can have a similar event here.
Its unlikely for sure, but I'd like to leave the option open for a miltary conquest to form GrossDeutschland. Right now the only way for this to happen is if Hungary exists in the 1850s, and that will never happen because Austria has 9999 divisions all the time. There should be another way to form a GrossDeutschland, in the event of a crushing victory by one of the two. However the penalty would be +5 consciousness and militancy for North or South Germans or Catholics (depending on who wins) and -400 relations with Britain France Russia.
Something like this:
Trigger: Vienna, Prague, Bratislava, Budapest, Linz, Graz are occupied. Maybe a check for warscore if this is possible.
Choice A:
Only demand war indemnities (historical choice)
Choice B:
Create Greater Germany
Triggers Austrian Event "Join Germany?"
If Austria says yes.
Inherit Bohemia and Austria.
Independence to Hungary, Croatia, and Bosnia if its in the Austrian empire.
Set relations of these states to +200 with Prussia - after all it was Prussian victory that granted them independence. We assume Hungarian nationalists oust the Habsburgs.
South German militancy and consciousness +5.
Catholic militancy and consciousness +3.
Relations with Britain France Russia -400.
Ask all German states "Join Germany?" Even southern Germans join, because Austria is no more.
If Austria says no, revolts across all slavic lands, +5 militancy for slavic peoples. (similiar to the Ottoman choice "Fight on")
For an Austrian victory, Greater Germany will not be created as of yet. However, it will present these choices -
Trigger - Berlin, Breslau, Halle, Konigsburg (thats going to make it tough), Koln in Austrian hands.
Choice A - demand war indemnities
Choice B - demand Silesia
triggers event - The Question of Germanic Peoples
A - Keep Status Quo
B - Create a Germany in the South - ask Bavaria, Baden, Wurttemburg, Saxony if they want to join.
C - Create a Greater Germany. Ask Southern German states to join, and War with Prussia, and claims to North German states. I dont think Northern German states would join Austria this easily - they'd have to have Austrian soldiers knocking on their doorsteps.
Effects if succeed - as above, but change South German to North German, and Catholic to Protestant.
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Yes, the Russian events are out of whack, but who said we're keeping them? In my opinion all Paradox events should be liquidated indiscriminately, with their ids reassigned.
Your event is quite good, but what shall we do with the fact that historically, Austria folded within 2 months? If Italy is united and assaults Austria together with Prussia (or if another power, RUS or TUR, is involved), Prussians should get a Konniggratz-like event making it possible for them to claim hegemony in Germany and leave Austria alone, or to puruse the total destruction of the Empire. Also, Bosnia should not be made independent - it would be part of Croatia, most likely. Now, the whole chain could get even more complex.
If Compromise has occured, Hungary should be spawned as a monarchy (we could make it possible for AUS player to continue playing, too, with some manipulation), with Croatia as a satellite state to simulate the centuries long personal union(perhaps breaking off at some point). If there was no Compromise, Hungary should become a republic controlling Croatia (with a subsequent civil war), with a Prussian option to intervene and install a monarchy.
Your event is quite good, but what shall we do with the fact that historically, Austria folded within 2 months? If Italy is united and assaults Austria together with Prussia (or if another power, RUS or TUR, is involved), Prussians should get a Konniggratz-like event making it possible for them to claim hegemony in Germany and leave Austria alone, or to puruse the total destruction of the Empire. Also, Bosnia should not be made independent - it would be part of Croatia, most likely. Now, the whole chain could get even more complex.
If Compromise has occured, Hungary should be spawned as a monarchy (we could make it possible for AUS player to continue playing, too, with some manipulation), with Croatia as a satellite state to simulate the centuries long personal union(perhaps breaking off at some point). If there was no Compromise, Hungary should become a republic controlling Croatia (with a subsequent civil war), with a Prussian option to intervene and install a monarchy.
Ok i agree with this idea ofr a united germany more than I like my idea, on the prussian forum. I'mk willng to go with your idea on austro-prussian war will be handled. However will have to decide on osmething since, the code for German minors and Austria in this event will require, a joint effort. So if you guys could let me know what oyur going to do for the event of Austria and Prussia war. Such as war indemities let me know. I'm doing the coding for the German minors.
I was also thinking if Austria loses the war, Prussia annexes all Austria's German minor allies, that were in it historically For choice A if Prussia wins the war. Not just the historical war indemities
I was also thinking if Austria loses the war, Prussia annexes all Austria's German minor allies, that were in it historically For choice A if Prussia wins the war. Not just the historical war indemities
True, that should probably be an automatic event (with one safeguard...if a minor has an alliance with another great power or is a great power itself, it shouldn't be annexed).
Glad we can agree.
I wouldnt be worried about Koniggratz though.
In one of my current games I have France Britain and Ottoman gangbanging Austria for 10+ years, they're still holding out with 290 divisions and frustrating allied efforts to crush them......Austria is way too powerful as it is. Their prestige is -1100 (bankruptcy?) but military and industry still going strong.
And about Ausgleich - I've never seen it happen, I dont know why this is but AH never appears.
I wouldnt be worried about Koniggratz though.
In one of my current games I have France Britain and Ottoman gangbanging Austria for 10+ years, they're still holding out with 290 divisions and frustrating allied efforts to crush them......Austria is way too powerful as it is. Their prestige is -1100 (bankruptcy?) but military and industry still going strong.
And about Ausgleich - I've never seen it happen, I dont know why this is but AH never appears.
There's a nifty trigger that allows you to check relative strength of armies. If Prussian army advances into Bohemia and is stronger than Austrian army, a Konniggratz-like event could trigger.
Hmm you mean force the Austrians to lose a battle before its happened? A little unfair perhaps?
What annoys me most is the Austrians have no ethnic tensions at all.....there should be gargantuan revolts in the Magyar and Slavic parts of the Empire, something that should be difficult to handle, not your regular send in 1 division to crush them all type revolt.
Maybe we could have a trigger to check war exhaustion and key provinces.
If war exhaustion is 25%, surely there should be massive unrest to stop the war - something like the end of the First World War I'm thinking.
Trigger: War exhaustion 25%
OR loss of Vienna
"The Habsburg Empire is teetering on the brink of collapse. Everywhere, revolutionaries and nationalist uprisings are weakening the hold of the monarchy. We can crush them or compromise."
choice A: Compromise with Hungarians - becomes AH
choice B: Compromise with Hungarians and Croatians - becomes AH, with Croatia as a satellite
choice C: Crush them all - Instant revolts in Hungary and Croatia (big ones), +5 militancy for slavs and Magyars.
What annoys me most is the Austrians have no ethnic tensions at all.....there should be gargantuan revolts in the Magyar and Slavic parts of the Empire, something that should be difficult to handle, not your regular send in 1 division to crush them all type revolt.
Maybe we could have a trigger to check war exhaustion and key provinces.
If war exhaustion is 25%, surely there should be massive unrest to stop the war - something like the end of the First World War I'm thinking.
Trigger: War exhaustion 25%
OR loss of Vienna
"The Habsburg Empire is teetering on the brink of collapse. Everywhere, revolutionaries and nationalist uprisings are weakening the hold of the monarchy. We can crush them or compromise."
choice A: Compromise with Hungarians - becomes AH
choice B: Compromise with Hungarians and Croatians - becomes AH, with Croatia as a satellite
choice C: Crush them all - Instant revolts in Hungary and Croatia (big ones), +5 militancy for slavs and Magyars.
There was no massive unrests in the Empire during WW1 so why should there be otherwise?
No, what I mean is...if Prussia and some other major power (historically Italy) are at war with Austria, if Prussians take one province in Bohemia, have a stronger army and have had certain events pertaining to leadership in Germany, Austrians should have an option to cave in and accept the Prussian hegemony in Germany. If Prussians decline and go on to conquer Austria proper, the Empire (provided the Compromise did not occur) should collapse, with the consequences I described earlier.
One MAJOR note, however. The armies of counter-revolution in 1848 were overwhelmingly Slavonic in composition
. The Croats should not revolt against Austrian authority - they should revolt against HUNGARIAN authority, provided that the Hungarians ousted the Habsburgs.
War exhaustion won't work - wars can go on for decades without it hitting 25%. Control of Vienna would be a de facto sign that the Empire is over - no Compromise.
Now, if the Austrians take the "easy" route and cave in early, a Compromise event should come up, with choices somewhat similar to what you described -
A - admit Hungarians as an equal state culture and change flag (somewhat ugly way of dealing with historical Compromise situation).
B - split the Empire (historical borders) with Croatia remaining a part of Austria (possible future conflict between Hungary and Austria). This should give Austria a "last chance" to unite Germany.
C- split the Empire into Archduchy of Austria/Kingdom of Bohemia and Kingdom of Hungary (satellite of Austria)/Kingdom of Croatia (satellite of Hungary in turn), resulting in some very pissed off Croats. Should give Austria the "last chance".
D- keep the Empire intact - instant and massive republican Hungarian revolt. If it controls Vienna, Austria is inherited by PRU/GER automatically.
In all cases, consciousness of Czech POPs should be raised significantly. Now if Austria does not cave in, it can either defeat the Prussians in the field while facing some major revolts in Hungary - if they beat PRU, they can still qualify for a "last chance" German unification.
If Prussians win...well, German provinces and Bohemia-Morawia gets swallowed (NO Austrian choices here. If Vienna falls, they're out). However, if Austria still holds Budapest and HUN is NOT independent as a REPUBLIC, Habsburgs can keep power in Hungary, with Croatia as a satellite. This way Austrian player gets to play on, too.
One MAJOR note, however. The armies of counter-revolution in 1848 were overwhelmingly Slavonic in composition
. The Croats should not revolt against Austrian authority - they should revolt against HUNGARIAN authority, provided that the Hungarians ousted the Habsburgs.War exhaustion won't work - wars can go on for decades without it hitting 25%. Control of Vienna would be a de facto sign that the Empire is over - no Compromise.
Now, if the Austrians take the "easy" route and cave in early, a Compromise event should come up, with choices somewhat similar to what you described -
A - admit Hungarians as an equal state culture and change flag (somewhat ugly way of dealing with historical Compromise situation).
B - split the Empire (historical borders) with Croatia remaining a part of Austria (possible future conflict between Hungary and Austria). This should give Austria a "last chance" to unite Germany.
C- split the Empire into Archduchy of Austria/Kingdom of Bohemia and Kingdom of Hungary (satellite of Austria)/Kingdom of Croatia (satellite of Hungary in turn), resulting in some very pissed off Croats. Should give Austria the "last chance".
D- keep the Empire intact - instant and massive republican Hungarian revolt. If it controls Vienna, Austria is inherited by PRU/GER automatically.
In all cases, consciousness of Czech POPs should be raised significantly. Now if Austria does not cave in, it can either defeat the Prussians in the field while facing some major revolts in Hungary - if they beat PRU, they can still qualify for a "last chance" German unification.
If Prussians win...well, German provinces and Bohemia-Morawia gets swallowed (NO Austrian choices here. If Vienna falls, they're out). However, if Austria still holds Budapest and HUN is NOT independent as a REPUBLIC, Habsburgs can keep power in Hungary, with Croatia as a satellite. This way Austrian player gets to play on, too.
Eh.
Whats this Bohemia stuff. Why would the Prussians want a bunch of Slavs in their Reich ?
Whats this Bohemia stuff. Why would the Prussians want a bunch of Slavs in their Reich ?
There was a significant German minority in Bohemia, and geographically it makes sense to swallow Bohemia.
Having that gigantic gap between Silesia and Austria doesnt help - much better to absorb it as a Protectorate of Bohemia Moravia like Hitler did in 1939. Since the Sudetenland is pretty Germanised, the rest of Bohemia would presumably be Germanised like the Posen and Danzig areas were.
If Prussia saw no problem with incorporating Polish territory, when Poland was still independent, I am sure they would have no problem incoporating Czechs into the Empire, given that there had not been a Czech nation state for centuries.
One note about war exhaustion - I've got Austria to 18% after 15 years of war, so you might be right. Maybe lower to 15%?
Addition: Army size check doesnt seem fair. At Koniggratz, Austrian army > Prussian, but with the breech loading needle gun and moving in columns, plus Benedek's reluctance to use his railway to transport troops made it an Austrian loss. Should perhaps change trigger to crushing Austrian defeat but how to simulate this?
Having that gigantic gap between Silesia and Austria doesnt help - much better to absorb it as a Protectorate of Bohemia Moravia like Hitler did in 1939. Since the Sudetenland is pretty Germanised, the rest of Bohemia would presumably be Germanised like the Posen and Danzig areas were.
If Prussia saw no problem with incorporating Polish territory, when Poland was still independent, I am sure they would have no problem incoporating Czechs into the Empire, given that there had not been a Czech nation state for centuries.
One note about war exhaustion - I've got Austria to 18% after 15 years of war, so you might be right. Maybe lower to 15%?
Addition: Army size check doesnt seem fair. At Koniggratz, Austrian army > Prussian, but with the breech loading needle gun and moving in columns, plus Benedek's reluctance to use his railway to transport troops made it an Austrian loss. Should perhaps change trigger to crushing Austrian defeat but how to simulate this?
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There should be an event which would if you went with creation of Great Germany trigger French and possibly Russian, perhaps even British DOW. For sake of realism and game balance.
Bohemia in general was pretty much germanized. I'm not in favor of war exhaustion trigger at all, btw.
Also, the army strength check applies to the entirety of both armies, not just to particular units. All Austrians need to do in the first place is prevent Prussians from capturing provinces in Austria or Bohemia. If they can't, army strength check seems to be fair, but we could, instead, use a military defeat as a trigger, if that's possible (I think Paradox used it in Dutch-Belgian war).
Main problem I have with army size check is that Austria has a penchant to build 300+ divisions.....
A check for victory and occupation of key provinces would be more fair in my opinion.
A check for victory and occupation of key provinces would be more fair in my opinion.
In my opinion Austria more than anything else needs a ton of tiny events for minorities, their national awekening and demands for autonomy, to simulate the boiling of "the prison of nations" and weaken it so that it doesn`t fantasticaly steam roll it`s neigbours in every war as it does now.