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Tech tree extension project (TTEP)

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Kretoxian said:
About mobile mine and remote tank, they're there from vanilla and, i think that unmaned aerial, submarine and those robotics thing you said, it's too futuristic, isn't it? The borderline time period of this mod is late 60s or very early 70s.
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Maybe link rocketry techs (V1, V2, space programs...) and remote controlling in some way? Would make things more realistic.
 
Kretoxian said:
Well, it's ok, right now i'm taking a small rest from moding, so i'll try to use more professional terms.
About mobile mine and remote tank, they're there from vanilla and, i think that unmaned aerial, submarine and those robotics thing you said, it's too futuristic, isn't it? The borderline time period of this mod is late 60s or very early 70s.
The attack helicopter it's not just a rotorcraft, it's there to have helicopters like the very first version of Bell AH-1 Cobra or Mil Mi24A and, specially the first one was really a revolutionary weapon back in the crazy marihuana smoking 60s.
Night vision tech is a mock up from other mod, cold war tech tree extension, and it's quite nice represented, IMO, it goes from the very first and bulky prototypes that you could only mount them into tanks, halftracks and some light tanks up to more modern devices that boost all type of infantrie's night defense and attack values.
A SH tank, depends, you need to consider that you need to have secret weapons also for WW1 period, and a SH tank would definitely be a secret, revolutionary weapon in those years, and also in WW2, nobody knew, back in '42/'43 or '44 that Germany was developing monsters like Maus or those landkreuzers, in the same way that Germany didn't know that Britain was developing a tank like TOG2, were they used? nope. If they were used, they would be in armor tech, where, by the way, there's almost not space left.
The world's first trully air assault at divisional level was performed by the 1st air cavalry division IIRC and later many US army units were adapted for air assault role like 101st airborne division and 11th airborne division among others changing their name from "airborne" to "air assault division" and, it was a hell to reach to the point where an entire division could be airlifted, that's enough point to consider it as a secret weapon as it was not the natural development of an airborne division like it could be the development of the light tank brigade into an infantry fighting vehicle (back in 60s, when the US reformed their army system in order to adapt a brigade centered combat system, only the 82nd airborne division remained as a "pure" -IE, having their soldiers jumping from an airplane with a parachute, obviously- airborne division, being some other ones converted into air assault role).

About APC, it was not used during WW2 as a "battle taxi" (IE,in a combat role and infantry support) but only as a logistical vehicle moving ammo and supplies where needed, the usage of such vehicles (which where the natural evolution of the halftrack) in a combat role, not only transporting troops to the frontline but also supporting them, was what made the APC a revolutionary weapon, and it was first used IIRC after Korean War. And also they only add some bonuses in the game, they don't make nothing serious like being a separate unit.

I'm willing to read those suggestions!
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Its actually not so futursitic as it sounds like. All combatants operated basic telemetric sysmes during WW2, most famously the Soviet teletank and the German Goliath. Some sources claim the Soviets even had teleplanes.

I see the rationale behind the attack helicopter, but the concept itself were born during WWII. Kellet Cobra XX-9 is titled an attack ghelicopter. The helis you mentioned are definetively armed to their teeth and filled to the brim with then state of art technology but most of that is not so related to the concept of the attack helicopter. Thats what I think, If you see what I mean

I just read on Wiki that there are 4 generations of night vision technology. This one seem totally justified. Bad background reasarch oin my part. Maybe it would be cooler if you renamed it to generation 1 night vision etc. though? In general I like the "generation" terminology, would be cool to see that terminology for jet figthter technology.

All majors had super heavy tank projects and they were all scraped for the very same reason. Into the cold war period all countries went with the main battle tank which strives to materialize the perfect balance between firepower, armor and speed. The super heavy tank is especially unfunctional when it comes to speed and is in addition incredibly vulnerable to air attacks. Landcruisers are one thing but super heavy tanks up into late 50s is unrealistic. At this point of time they were redundant, and so were most branches of super heavy weapons that indeed looks impressive on paper. If anything, include the main battle tank as a secret weapon tech, and of course use the generation terminology :)

There is no technological break thorugh behind the APC. And as wiki states

Wikipedia said:
During World War I, when the tank was developed, the British Mark V* tank was designed with a small passenger compartment to carry troops. By some definitions this can be considered the first armoured personnel carrier. The first specialised APC was the Mark IX of 1918.
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What makes the APC unique post 1945 is its integrated role in the US military doctrine especially. They came up with the idea of a battle taxi in a time when mobility dominated the battlefield. I see the APC as a cold war doctrine path for mobility focus.

There is not much infantery support in the APC, it was solely a light machine gun mounted on a lightly armed carrier. The Germans howewer took the APC concept a bit further already during WW2 when they developed prototypes that would fit the ICV concept. The below picture of an E50 Büffel is an example of that.

normal_E50_B%C3%BCffel.JPG



The air assault entry is IMO also something more related to doctrine rather than pure technology. In the doctrine panel it could be named air mobility under the mobility focus path.

Just suggestions. All this said, is in not possible to make more panels or at least smaller tech entries with the current engine? I mean, is this something we can request from Martin?

JRHINDO said:
Maybe link rocketry techs (V1, V2, space programs...) and remote controlling in some way? Would make things more realistic.
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Actually, yes. The basic level of telemetrics should be developed before guided weapon systems are available. As for the German rockets, everything from radiocontrol, wire guidance, radar-guidance and infrared-guidance were used.
 
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Easy1 said:
Just suggestions. All this said, is in not possible to make more panels or at least smaller tech entries with the current engine? I mean, is this something we can request from Martin?
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We could make smaller Tech buttons (the ones to click in the panels and which changes color when researched).
 
^^ You have your points, i recognize that, and, i don't discard many of your suggestions for future versions, it's only that the mod is in an advanced pre alpha version and i even already started to convert 1914 scenario of vanilla DH (and i'll follow doing it unless someone ask to center only in 1936 scenario and release it with only 1936 scenario being playable) and starting now to make such big changes would require a lot of time.

You seem to know about doctrines, any suggestions? Taking vanilla DH doctrines trees as basis of course.

About IFV i went to wikipedia,to this article here where it reads:
kiwipedialol said:
Western powers were surprised when the Soviet Union paraded the first purpose-designed IFV, the BMP-1, in 1967. The BMP possessed a very low profile and was armed with both a 73mm smoothbore gun and an AT-3 Sagger ATGM. Its steeply-sloped front armour offered full protection against NATO's standard .50 calibre machine gun and partial protection against 20 millimetre Oerlikon cannon both in a 60 degree frontal arc, while its 73 mm gun and ATGM were a threat to NATO APCs and even MBTs.
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And i guess that Schützenpanzer Lang was E50 Büffel but simply developed.

And, again, my info about attack helos was taken from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter

regarding super heavy tanks in the 50s... i think that many of the german paper projects (like panzer VIII or IX) would be developed during that decade and not during 40s... also Russian Objekt 279 was a SH tank prototype designed in the 50s.

PS: Can you find any pic of Kellet Cobra XX-9? because the only info i could find about it is a list in wikipedia but nothing else.
 
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JRHINDO said:
We could make smaller Tech buttons (the ones to click in the panels and which changes color when researched).
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yes sure we could, but not me, i'm null at graphic editing :-(
 
JRHINDO said:
I can. (But btw if the tech buttons are shrinked then the tech names will need to be shrinked)
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You can? And could work on research categories icons?
 
^^ Yeah!! thanks!!! Don't worry, anything, will be nice.
 
Kretoxian said:
^^ You have your points, i recognize that, and, i don't discard many of your suggestions for future versions, it's only that the mod is in an advanced pre alpha version and i even already started to convert 1914 scenario of vanilla DH (and i'll follow doing it unless someone ask to center only in 1936 scenario and release it with only 1936 scenario being playable) and starting now to make such big changes would require a lot of time.

You seem to know about doctrines, any suggestions? Taking vanilla DH doctrines trees as basis of course.

About IFV i went to wikipedia,to this article here where it reads:

And i guess that Schützenpanzer Lang was E50 Büffel but simply developed.

And, again, my info about attack helos was taken from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopter

regarding super heavy tanks in the 50s... i think that many of the german paper projects (like panzer VIII or IX) would be developed during that decade and not during 40s... also Russian Objekt 279 was a SH tank prototype designed in the 50s.

PS: Can you find any pic of Kellet Cobra XX-9? because the only info i could find about it is a list in wikipedia but nothing else.
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I think there was a picture of that helis on AIAA.com earlier, but since that page has changed servers it seems to be gone.

I'm willing to help out not only in regards to doctrines and secret technology but the whole tech tree. Maybe we can gather a small and informal team and redo the tech tree where we find it necessary if you plan to work on it anyways? The tech tree is already good in DH but I see room for improvement, especially if we base research on resources already out there in mods, Iron Cross, HOI3 etc. I mean, make it more theoretical, extensive, abstract and more importantly extend it into the late 50s/early 60s.

Also, as we do this, we could establish a dialogue with DH developers so that our work is consistent with their philosophy and quality standards, and then we can submit it to them when we are finished for them to patch it in. Then DH will atleast have early cold war support when it comes to the tech tree. Also, I'm pretty sure some other modders will appreciate our work.

Unfortunately, I'm a null when it comes to both coding and graphic editing :(. I could contribute a lot to the theoretical part tho.
 
Easy1 said:
I think there was a picture of that helis on AIAA.com earlier, but since that page has changed servers it seems to be gone.

I'm willing to help out not only in regards to doctrines and secret technology but the whole tech tree. Maybe we can gather a small and informal team and redo the tech tree where we find it necessary if you plan to work on it anyways? The tech tree is already good in DH but I see room for improvement, especially if we base research on resources already out there in mods, Iron Cross, HOI3 etc. I mean, make it more theoretical, extensive, abstract and more importantly extend it into the late 50s/early 60s.

Also, as we do this, we could establish a dialogue with DH developers so that our work is consistent with their philosophy and quality standards, and then we can submit it to them when we are finished for them to patch it in. Then DH will atleast have early cold war support when it comes to the tech tree. Also, I'm pretty sure some other modders will appreciate our work.

Unfortunately, I'm a null when it comes to both coding and graphic editing :(. I could contribute a lot to the theoretical part tho.
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I would like to gather a team in order to make a more, better and advanced tech tree, that way i would not be the only one working on this...

That's the point of this mod, extend it to late 60s and early 70s, and give the player, and other nations more techs to research, and, if possible, rework some things (like heavy submarines for instance in order to be taken individually and not into flotillas).
The DH tech tree is very good, yes, but it still lacks some things that i tried to correct in this mod.

My ideal tech tree would also cover the period from 1900 until 1914, that way a 1910 scenario could be made.

Hehe i would like that this mod (or any other one where i took part) would be included in an official DH patch, but, for now, i think it would be better to stay down on earth...

I honestly think that i can code, but i can't, despite that i tried, edit almost any graphic besides from some tech pics i made.
 
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Wow! adapting scenarios is really teeeeeeeeeeeeeeedious!!
 
Kretoxian said:
I would like to gather a team in order to make a more, better and advanced tech tree, that way i would not be the only one working on this...

That's the point of this mod, extend it to late 60s and early 70s, and give the player, and other nations more techs to research, and, if possible, rework some things (like heavy submarines for instance in order to be taken individually and not into flotillas).
The DH tech tree is very good, yes, but it still lacks some things that i tried to correct in this mod.

My ideal tech tree would also cover the period from 1900 until 1914, that way a 1910 scenario could be made.

Hehe i would like that this mod (or any other one where i took part) would be included in an official DH patch, but, for now, i think it would be better to stay down on earth...

I honestly think that i can code, but i can't, despite that i tried, edit almost any graphic besides from some tech pics i made.
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Alright! Expect suggestions from me in the coming weeks
 
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