Post your (DW) Empire

[midget_roxx]

I thought it was germany at first but I see you changed it's dirty yellow colour and gave it to poland?

 

[BrotherM]

My recent attempt at Jihad: I don't think I'm going to make it in time for the 1821 cutoff.

The New World is totally ridiculous.

 

[Luhood]

My recent attempt at Jihad: I don't think I'm going to make it in time for the 1821 cutoff.


Click image for the rest of the album (6 total images, one for each continent... because screw Antarctica).

Also, DAT BAVARIA.

Sorry buddy, but I just can't buy that thing as a Jihad! First of all, the majority of the provinces you've conquered are Islamic or heathens other than true Heretics of Christ, and thus Europe stands left alone. Shouldn't Europe be the first of your target, considering the long history between the two? Granted, I know it can be tough ingame to do so with Najd, but apparently you've succeeded with the rest of the world.

 

[Ruanek]

Sorry buddy, but I just can't buy that thing as a Jihad! First of all, the majority of the provinces you've conquered are Islamic or heathens other than true Heretics of Christ, and thus Europe stands left alone. Shouldn't Europe be the first of your target, considering the long history between the two? Granted, I know it can be tough ingame to do so with Najd, but apparently you've succeeded with the rest of the world.

With Europe you ca also get 1 infamy per province. Granted, you can do that in India, too, and colonization of hordes gives 0 infamy per province. But Europe should still probably be a higher priority.

 

[DisgruntledLemming]

Sorry buddy, but I just can't buy that thing as a Jihad! First of all, the majority of the provinces you've conquered are Islamic or heathens other than true Heretics of Christ, and thus Europe stands left alone. Shouldn't Europe be the first of your target, considering the long history between the two? Granted, I know it can be tough ingame to do so with Najd, but apparently you've succeeded with the rest of the world.

He did say ATTEMPT a Jihad.

 

[PiriReis]

Sorry buddy, but I just can't buy that thing as a Jihad! First of all, the majority of the provinces you've conquered are Islamic or heathens other than true Heretics of Christ, and thus Europe stands left alone. Shouldn't Europe be the first of your target, considering the long history between the two? Granted, I know it can be tough ingame to do so with Najd, but apparently you've succeeded with the rest of the world.

Jihad was foremost used when a former Islamic land was lost, for example when Jerusalem was sacked and conquered by the crusaders.
After around 1500 the power of Jihad and the caliphate (to motivate the masses to fight a war) started to decline, the same way with the crusades.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Jihad was foremost used when a former Islamic land was lost, for example when Jerusalem was sacked and conquered by the crusaders.
After around 1500 the power of Jihad and the caliphate (to motivate the masses to fight a war) started to decline, the same way with the crusades.

You forget to tell, that this were former christian lands, and the muslims just siezed them for no reason. That was mostly reason for crushades.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

You forget to tell, that this were former christian lands, and the muslims just siezed them for no reason. That was mostly reason for crushades.

And you forgot to mention that those christian lands where former Hebrew/Tribal lands which imperialistic "Pagans" seized for no particular reason and then converted them to christianity.

 

[Kresaux]

When he said jihad, he ment the achievement of doing a WC with Najd...

 

[Lama43]

And you forgot to mention that those christian lands where former Hebrew/Tribal lands which imperialistic "Pagans" seized for no particular reason and then converted them to christianity.

Oh those lands were seized by many other imperialistic pagans. Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks and i think Egyptians too. But the main damage to Hebrew nations was made by the Assyrians and Babylonians. And the Hebrew people didn't exactly come there peacefully, even the bible says so.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

Oh those lands were seized by many other imperialistic pagans. Assyrians, Persians, Babylonians, Greeks and i think Egyptians too. But the main damage to Hebrew nations was made by the Assyrians and Babylonians. And the Hebrew people didn't exactly come there peacefully, even the bible says so.

Indeed, but it does not change the fact that most of the land that was taken by the Arabs during the initial conquests was not "de jure" christian land to begin with as Iwanow seems to imply.

 

[Lama43]

Indeed, but it does not change the fact that most of the land that was taken by the Arabs during the initial conquests was not "de jure" christian land to begin with as Iwanow seems to imply.

600 years of domination with extensive cultural influencing is more than enough for me to call it de-jure. I think that it's simply a matter of brain perception, you think of Syria and Palestine as Muslim simply because you were born in an era where it has been muslim for roughly 1300 years, which is certainly much longer than Roman domination, true that. But the Hebrews were united and indipendent only for 500 years or so, and after that deportation and such started.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

And you forgot to mention that those christian lands where former Hebrew/Tribal lands which imperialistic "Pagans" seized for no particular reason and then converted them to christianity.

Lie. They converted from their free will. But true the romans did conquered those terrain, but they were pagans by then, not christians. It was just christianity was widespread, and THEN only the roman empire became christian religion. So NOT "they were converted", but "they converted themselves", most times just being opressed because they were christians.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

600 years of domination with extensive cultural influencing is more than enough for me to call it de-jure. I think that it's simply a matter of brain perception, you think of Syria and Palestine as Muslim simply because you were born in an era where it has been muslim for roughly 1300 years, which is certainly much longer than Roman domination, true that. But the Hebrews were united and indipendent only for 500 years or so, and after that deportation and such started.

Well, cultural domination is indeed noteworthy, but I highly doubt that by 650 the majority of the Lands had been christian for more than around 300-400 years, but I do have to admit that there are few sources to search that so you might indeed be right that it could be considered christian heartland by then. Also remember that by the time the crusades hit most of the lands had been in muslim hands for almost 500 years themselves and where mostly muslim by then. Also the crusades where primarily done by roman catholics and orthodox byzantines.

Lie. They converted from their free will. But true the romans did conquered those terrain, but they were pagans by then, not christians. It was just christianity was widespread, and THEN only the roman empire became christian religion. So NOT "they were converted", but "they converted themselves", most times just being opressed because they were christians.

Look, I dont want to go against your strong oppinion, but history has shown time and time again that most conversions dont happen peacefully and are either used as a diplomatic tool by rulers or by force. In that time most peasants probably needed conversion since they where simply not literate enough to "decide for themselves". Afterall, how would the random farmer in central anatolia learn of christian beliefs if not from a missionary?

 

[aliquidparadigm]

When he said jihad, he ment the achievement of doing a WC with Najd...

This. I would've thought it obvious given that I'm concerned with the 1821 cutoff--if it were any other game, I'd just mod the end date so I could keep playing.

Sorry buddy, but I just can't buy that thing as a Jihad! First of all, the majority of the provinces you've conquered are Islamic or heathens other than true Heretics of Christ, and thus Europe stands left alone. Shouldn't Europe be the first of your target, considering the long history between the two? Granted, I know it can be tough ingame to do so with Najd, but apparently you've succeeded with the rest of the world.

I'm going to assume this is just some joking, because if you only consider it "tough" to go after Europe "first", you've obviously never tried doing this.

Spoiler

Castile usually ends up owning most of Morocco, Algeria and Tunis within the first 20-30 years and is virtually unstoppable until you're fully westernized. If you happen to gobble up a couple of your tribal Arabic neighbors (normally, in order: Haasa, Hedjaz, Oman, Yemen, Iraq if they break free from the Jalayrids or Timurids), it's only a matter of time until you have to deal with the Timurids, unless you're semi-fortunate enough to have them collapse before you can expand to meet them. Then you have the lovely and wonderful task of trying to colonize all their land... with your dirt-poor nation. Invariably, at some point the Mamluks will decide it's time to use that Tribal Conquest CB they have on you, and they're almost certain to have well over 30k troops, while you're going to have a troop limit of less than that and a manpower near half of it, so good luck with that. And, just for good measure, all of this is going to happen while you're still tribal, so enjoy those TSCs every 5-30 years in your ever expanding nation, which your ruler will almost always be "incapable" of ruling, giving you a permanent +3 revolt risk, -20/30 infamy limit (sort of irrelevant with the -1 given by tribal), and -33% national tax (!). If you play your cards right, you might be able to switch out of tribal government by the 1450-60s, assuming you didn't get shafted by any random events or rebels--and that's a big assumption. If you're really lucky, you'll be able to start westernizing by the 1500s, but there's almost no way you'll be able to get both steps and military modernization done before the 1540s. By the time you're fully westernized, your Land tech will still probably be, at best, 10. Your European friends across the Mediterranean? They're rolling with 15+ by this point. Yeah, they're the people you should be using that Holy War CB on. That's a great way to lose all the land you've spent the last 150 years accumulating. You turn your focus to the East, gank all that land from those silly Asians, wait for it to core (and your tech to catch up) and then you can start making ingresses into Europe. I had a few bad breaks and couldn't start taking back all the Old World lands from Castile, Portugal and Great Britain until about 1725, after a pair of Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité cultural decisions, full innovative, full free subjects, and Scientific Revolution allowed me to get back on par with the West tech nations. No, you cannot go after Europe first. Not until you're westernized, caught up in tech, and have a large, large nation with a lot of cores. Since there was zero chance of going into Europe with the Holy War CB, I waited until I could get the Revolutionary War CB (about 1740, 30+ years ahead of schedule), before I started making inroads to Europe.

I learned a lot from this attempt (which it's still possible I could complete, but I'd rather not try, as it's rather implausible), and already started another attempt utilizing different strategies which should make it a bit easier to pull off.

The New World is totally ridiculous.

I know, right? If it didn't take me 200 years to fully westernize, and another 125 to catch up in tech, I would've been able to bring order and stability to all of South America and much more of North. le sigh.

 

[PiriReis]

Well, cultural domination is indeed noteworthy, but I highly doubt that by 650 the majority of the Lands had been christian for more than around 300-400 years, but I do have to admit that there are few sources to search that so you might indeed be right that it could be considered christian heartland by then. Also remember that by the time the crusades hit most of the lands had been in muslim hands for almost 500 years themselves and where mostly muslim by then. Also the crusades where primarily done by roman catholics and orthodox byzantines.

Look, I dont want to go against your strong oppinion, but history has shown time and time again that most conversions dont happen peacefully and are either used as a diplomatic tool by rulers or by force. In that time most peasants probably needed conversion since they where simply not literate enough to "decide for themselves". Afterall, how would the random farmer in central anatolia learn of christian beliefs if not from a missionary?

True, the pagans of northern Europe are an example of this (The Northern Crusades). The movie Agora (2009) gives a depiction of what happened to the pagans & Jews of Egypt when the Christians came.

 

[unmerged(425201)]

Here's Austria in 1427.

The world:

Screenshot of diplomatic mapmode (as you can see, I've gotten a lot of vassals and PUs, mostly by the sword, with my most recent vassal [newly-released Hamburg from Aragon] being vassalized by diplomacy [on a maybe]):

 

[unmerged(451687)]

Current game (still ongoing) as Timurids to Mughals (Very Hard/Normal Agressivity/No Lucky Nations/Golden Bull Start) at several stages
(D&T 5.11):


Timur Timurid (8/7/9) 10/01/1356 - 12/04/1399

Spoiler

At Timur's death:

PU's:
Ottomans (since 04/05/1358)

Vassals:
Bengal, Kazan, Qara Koyunlu and Sibir

Additional Alliances:
Chagatai, Deva Bengal and Kazakh


Conquered almost all the Il-Khanate Region (Minus Bagdad) + Rajputana (which annexed Sind earlier after being called in a war with Deccan, and Sind, through cascading alliances). Was lucky to get a PU with the Ottos about two years afer gamestart without any interference on my part (their ruler seems to die quite often pretty early from my experience). Crushed the Golden Horde after they got called into my war against the Muzzafarids... but since they became Warleader, couldn't get provinces at lower cost, so just drove them bankrupt, called my troops home in preparation for the unevitable sucession crisis (which happened 3 years later), released Kazan and Sibir and took Kouban.
Took me about 5 1/2 years till the last rebel from the following succession crisis was hunted down.


'Ali II Timurid (7/6/5) 12/04/1399 - 28/11/1436

Spoiler

At 'Ali II's death:

PU's:
Ottomans (since 04/05/1358), Inherited
The Mamlukes (since 03/09/1425)

Vassals:
Ak Koyunlu, Armenia, Bengal, Eretnids, Hedjaz, Kazan, Maharasthra, Maldive, Mysore, Nogai, Sibir and Travanacore

Additional Alliances:
Chagatai, Deva Bengal, Kazakh and Syria


Completed the Conquest of the Il-Khanate Region and (after receiving the mission) conquered the provinces necessary to for the Mughals in two wars (and by the way split several minors out of Deccan, who all soon ended up diplo-vassalised)
Took Mecca (and liberated Hedjaz) from the Mamlukes (allied with Dehli in the first war), and later forced a PU upon them... after that I took back the other provinces in North Africa from Bulgaria (who, along with Trinacria, used the chaos after my first war with the Mamlukes to snatch a few provinces.)


Mahmud II Timurid (7/8/5) 28/11/1436 - ...

Spoiler

PU's:
Chagatai (since 03/09/1457)
Deva Bengal (since 02/09/1457)
Kazakh (since 05/06/1441)
Morocco (since 02/11/1453)
Swahili (since 03/08/1442)
The Mamluks (since 03/09/1425)

Vassals:
Aceh, Ak Koyunlu, Arakan, Armenia, Aru, Bengal, Bihar, Eretnids, Gondawana, Granada, Hedjaz, Kandesh, Kazan, Kedah, Kelantan, Maharasthra, Maldive, Mysore, Najd, Nogai, Oirat Horde, Orissa, Sibir, Travanacore, Yemen and Ziyyanids

*Armenia, Gondwana, Kandesh, Maharasthra, Mysore, Orissa and Travanacore are all Sunni.

Additional Alliances:
Syria


Mainly forced PU's upon several of the bigger muslim nations, Force-vassalized middle sized ones and diplo-vassalized the minors (8 Diplo King + Sphere + Rich Indian Provinces, along with lots of cash from wars with Dehli = Easy Diplo-vassalizing)
Also annexed Mutapa in two wars after they took a few provinces from Swahili while I was at war with them to enforce a PU)
There are now only 5 muslim countries left (+ those I've no access to) that are neither my vassal or Junior in a PU (Deccan, Delhi, Hafsids, Oman and Syria)
Right now waiting for my current King to die (and hopefully inherit one country or two... all my rulers so far lived quite old, suspect that all these PU's are not so unrelated to that) and my Infamy to go a bit down.

 

[unmerged(245171)]

Spoiler

Current game (still ongoing) as Timurids to Mughals (Very Hard/Normal Agressivity/No Lucky Nations/Golden Bull Start) at several stages
(D&T 5.11):


Timur Timurid (8/7/9) 10/01/1356 - 12/04/1399

At Timur's death:

PU's:
Ottomans (since 04/05/1358)

Vassals:
Bengal, Kazan, Qara Koyunlu and Sibir

Additional Alliances:
Chagatai, Deva Bengal and Kazakh


Conquered almost all the Il-Khanate Region (Minus Bagdad) + Rajputana (which annexed Sind earlier after being called in a war with Deccan, and Sind, through cascading alliances). Was lucky to get a PU with the Ottos about two years afer gamestart without any interference on my part (their ruler seems to die quite often pretty early from my experience). Crushed the Golden Horde after they got called into my war against the Muzzafarids... but since they became Warleader, couldn't get provinces at lower cost, so just drove them bankrupt, called my troops home in preparation for the unevitable sucession crisis (which happened 3 years later), released Kazan and Sibir and took Kouban.
Took me about 5 1/2 years till the last rebel from the following succession crisis was hunted down.


'Ali II Timurid (7/6/5) 12/04/1399 - 28/11/1436

At 'Ali II's death:

PU's:
Ottomans (since 04/05/1358), Inherited
The Mamlukes (since 03/09/1425)

Vassals:
Ak Koyunlu, Armenia, Bengal, Eretnids, Hedjaz, Kazan, Maharasthra, Maldive, Mysore, Nogai, Sibir and Travanacore

Additional Alliances:
Chagatai, Deva Bengal, Kazakh and Syria


Completed the Conquest of the Il-Khanate Region and (after receiving the mission) conquered the provinces necessary to for the Mughals in two wars (and by the way split several minors out of Deccan, who all soon ended up diplo-vassalised)
Took Mecca (and liberated Hedjaz) from the Mamlukes (allied with Dehli in the first war), and later forced a PU upon them... after that I took back the other provinces in North Africa from Bulgaria (who, along with Trinacria, used the chaos after my first war with the Mamlukes to snatch a few provinces.)


Mahmud II Timurid (7/8/5) 28/11/1436 - ...

PU's:
Chagatai (since 03/09/1457)
Deva Bengal (since 02/09/1457)
Kazakh (since 05/06/1441)
Morocco (since 02/11/1453)
Swahili (since 03/08/1442)
The Mamluks (since 03/09/1425)

Vassals:
Aceh, Ak Koyunlu, Arakan, Armenia, Aru, Bengal, Bihar, Eretnids, Gondawana, Granada, Hedjaz, Kandesh, Kazan, Kedah, Kelantan, Maharasthra, Maldive, Mysore, Najd, Nogai, Oirat Horde, Orissa, Sibir, Travanacore, Yemen and Ziyyanids

*Armenia, Gondwana, Kandesh, Maharasthra, Mysore, Orissa and Travanacore are all Sunni.

Additional Alliances:
Syria


Mainly forced PU's upon several of the bigger muslim nations, Force-vassalized middle sized ones and diplo-vassalized the minors (8 Diplo King + Sphere + Rich Indian Provinces, along with lots of cash from wars with Dehli = Easy Diplo-vassalizing)
Also annexed Mutapa in two wars after they took a few provinces from Swahili while I was at war with them to enforce a PU)
There are now only 5 muslim countries left (+ those I've no access to) that are neither my vassal or Junior in a PU (Deccan, Delhi, Hafsids, Oman and Syria)
Right now waiting for my current King to die (and hopefully inherit one country or two... all my rulers so far lived quite old, suspect that all these PU's are not so unrelated to that) and my Infamy to go a bit down.

Please use spoilers when you make such big posts! P.S Nice Mughal!

 

[unmerged(451687)]

Thanks, edited it.