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Naval Plans for the World's Naval Powers

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final conclusion of my tests: plan Z can be implemented, but there is still a cost: you can forget about paratroopers (well, the transports anyway, which, unlike HPP, you don't start with), or anything fancy. only by april 1940 can you even begin to start building land forces again. and for some reason it feels weird for me playing Germany without fallschirmjägers. I also don't have any subs and the entire surface convoy raiders are still only a plan in the back of Dönitz/ Raeder's minds.
 
I always use Advanced Training for everything, because I don't like to micromanage the law based on whether infantry will be finished next or a ship or plane. So, for convenience-sake I use advanced training, which I find to be a decent balance between starting experience and build time.
 
I always use specialist training in all my experiments.

In fact, I use it all the time, without exception. It's less to do with optimizing units and more to do with standardizing units. If I just stick with specialist training, there is no mathematical guesswork regarding unit build times.
 
Secret Master said:
Wait a moment. Plan Z included submarines.

What did you actually build by 1940? Everything but the subs?
Click to expand...

I build up to a total of 18 CL, 32 DD, 2 BB, 6 SHBB, 4 CV (2Graf Zeppelin and 2 others), the heavy cruisers, 2 Scharnhorst-class BC, 5 Spähkreuzers (Grand Destroyers in ICE). I never got around to starting any of the 12 P-class BC or any of the subs.
but I have my 4 battle fleets, my Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht.
I intended to have the convoy raiders ready for action against the USA, not the UK
 
misterbean said:
I build up to a total of 18 CL, 32 DD, 2 BB, 6 SHBB, 4 CV (2Graf Zeppelin and 2 others), the heavy cruisers, 2 Scharnhorst-class BC, 5 Spähkreuzers (Grand Destroyers in ICE). I never got around to starting any of the 12 P-class BC or any of the subs.
but I have my 4 battle fleets, my Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht.
I intended to have the convoy raiders ready for action against the USA, not the UK
Click to expand...

Gotcha. You got all the big stuff out of the way, then.
 
I often find that in the game, the little ships are the ones that are the most difficult to build on time if you want to follow the final ship totals for any of the build plans in this thread. The bigger ships, while taking a while to finish and a lot of IC at first, can be cranked out very quickly after your first batch is done. A three-year 15 IC carrier will drop to about 8 IC and something a little over 1 year after you build 2 or 3 of them. It's the first few that are the most painful.

In contrast, the little ships also take a long time, and since time is affected as a %, high practicals don't lower the final build time that much compared to how capital ships' build times are lowered. They also cost only slightly less IC with higher practicals for the same reason, and combined with the numbers you'll need to build I find it to be harder to build the little ships than the big ones in a timely manner. A ship is most useful if you have it available when the war starts, not when the war is nearly over ;)
 
Well, I don't disagree. I was just asking for clarification. I thought I was a total scrub when he said he had Plan Z done so soon and was kicking everyone down in Europe. He had the big ticket items done, but was still working on screens, which makes me feel a little better. :)
 
without access to the game logs, here's about what I did. minimal training, doing everything I could to reduce time spend on the Heer and Luftwaffe. plays hell with your officers ratio, though. as a result I spend most of 1939 with only about 8 LS assigned to research. the rest went to spy (just enough to keep a status quo) and officer training.
anyway. if you know what you're doing, you'll have the Heer just about finished by 1937. then spend all spare IC on interceptors, followed by tacs and cas, making sure you're done by New Year 1938. you now have a 3-year building schedule to get the Kriegsmarine up and running. Like Brom said, DD AND CL GO FIRST! you'll never get those numbers done otherwise. as a Germany, you can spend on average at least 160 IC per day. also start with the two Scharnhorst-class BCs. you need the practicals. then spend IC freed up by increasing threat on UK, Anschluss and the Munich/Vienna deal in a staggered build. don't let the practicals drop while you're building!
is it gamey? o yeah! it is gamey like all hell. but like someone else proved with the Soviet build, sometimes it is the only way.
besides, since we don't have the possibility to simulate Schacht's largest fraud in human history, I'll take what I can get.
I would never do that in a real campaign. It does feel like cheating, to me. but some like to conquer Europe with Lithuania. so, hey, if it works...

edited to add: you'll also need the Sitzkrieg to upgrade your stuff.
 
Here is a correction for Nehterlands with dates and displacements. From 1940 perfect belgium mod OOB. Holland didn't have coastal battleships or battleships at all.
It's biggest ship HrMs De Ruyter commissioned on 3 October 1936 had displacement 6,545 tons. The most of other ships were below 5000

Code: 
	# fleet in europe --------------------------------
	navy = {
		name = "Koninklijke Vloot"
		base = 1910
		location = 1910
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Jacob van Heemskerck" historical_model = 2 strength = 88 } #commissioned on 10 May 1940 #she was not armed by that date
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Hertog Hendrik" historical_model = 0 } #Decommissioned September 27 1968
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Sumatra" historical_model = 1 } #Laid down 15 Jun 1916. Commissioned	26 May 1926 
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Jacob Van Heemskerk (1906)" historical_model = 0} #There was a light cruiser with the same name built later. Displacement: 4,920  tons #sunk in europe
		ship = { type = destroyer name = "1e Torpedobootjager Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "5e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 2 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "6e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "7e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "8e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
	}
	navy = {
		name = "Koninklijke Onderzeese Vloot "
		base = 1910
		location = 1910
		ship = { type = submarine name = "6e Onderzeeboot Smaldeel" historical_model = 0 }
		ship = { type = submarine name = "5e Onderzeeboot Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = submarine name = "3e Onderzeeboot Smaldeel" historical_model = 2 }
	}
}

Code: 
	# East Indies fleet ------------------------------
	navy = {
		name = "Koninklijke Vloot NEI"
		base = 7793
		location = 7793
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs De Ruyter" historical_model = 2 pride = yes } #commissioned on 3 October 1936. 6,545 tons (biggest ship)
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Tromp" historical_model = 2 } #commissioned on 18 August 1938. 4000 tons
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Java" historical_model = 1 } #completed on May 1 1925
		ship = { type = light_cruiser name = "HrMs Soerabaja" historical_model = 0 } #commisioned on ctober 6 1910. 6,510 tons
		ship = { type = destroyer name = "2e Torpedobootjager Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = destroyer name = "3e Torpedobootjager Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
	}
	navy = {
		name = "Onderzeese Vloot NEI"
		base = 7793
		location = 7793
		ship = { type = submarine name = "1e Onderzeeboot Smaldeel" historical_model = 0 }
		ship = { type = submarine name = "2e Onderzeeboot Smaldeel" historical_model = 2 }
	}
	navy = {
		name = "Dienst der Scheepvaart"
		base = 7793
		location = 7793
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "1e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "2e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
		ship = { type = transport_ship name = "3e transport Smaldeel" historical_model = 1 }
	}
 
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The Dutch coastal defense ships should be modeled as CAs instead of CLs. True, they didn't displace much, but their armor and weapons are better reflected by the CA's stats rather than the stats of CLs. They fielded 9" guns, which means they are CAs if you use the London definition for ship classes.
 
Do you guys wish to know some weird ship designs which came from politicians, admirals or lot of free time naval architects?
 
Bromgrev I will soon post two minors (Poland and Romania's) naval programmes from ww1 to ww2 here when I get the necessary data, and both have Battleships in it!
 
The Naval plans of Romania: ( I only list the ship classes that are in use in HoI)
1899 Naval Plan:
6 Coastal Battleships
4 Destroyers

No info on these yet

1912 Naval Plan:
6 Light Cruisers of 3500tons:
British Vickers Designs:
a. 3100tons 6x 152mm Guns, 6x 102mm Guns 2 x 533mm Torpedoes, 27knots / 50km/h, 25mm Belt, 12.7mm Deck.
b. 3200tons 2x 190mm Guns, 6x 102mm Guns 2 x 533mm Torpedoes, 24knots / 44km/h, 76mm Belt, 9.5mm Deck.
They would be between the HMS Active/Fearless and the WWI Town class of cruisers in look.

12 Destroyers of 1500tons only 4 were begun and two were delivered the Marasti and Marasesti. It is unknown if the 8 other would be the continuation of this class or a new one.
1 Submarine
Ther Sub and the DD's were to be made by Italy.

Later added a plan for a Battleship of 13000ton 4x 305mm Cannons 4x 203mm Guns and 12x 150mm Guns
It is yet unknown who would built this ship.

1927 Naval Plan:
2 Destroyers of the Regele Ferdinand class
1 Submarine of the Delfinul class

These arrived in the early 30's

1928 Naval Plan:
2 Destroyers after the Regele Ferdinand class
1 Submarine

None were arrived.

1936-37 Naval Plan:
1 Cruiser:
Either one of these:

UP-102 Heavy Cruiser / Pocket Battleship - The Italian version of the Deutchlands
Dimensions:
187,5m x 21m x 5,8m
Engine: 75.000shp 2-shafts
Speed: 57km/h
Displacement: 13K tons
2x3 280mm Guns
6x2 120mm Guns
4x2 40mm AA Guns
8x2 20mm AA Guns
2x3 533mm Torpedoes
Armour Deck/Belt: 64/102mm

OTO Scout cruiser:
http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu102/ender_2009/OTOxRomania1938-1.jpg
A scout / Light cruiser design made by the Italian Firm OTO in 1938
Dimensions:
140m x 16,2m x 8,6m
Speed: 67km/h
Displacement: 6000tons
2x3 152mm Guns
3x2 107mm AA Guns
12x1 20mm AA Guns
2x3 533mm Torpedoes
Armour Deck/Belt: 25/52mm

4 Destroyers none were delivered, no more info are available.
3 Submarines from which only 2 were completed the Marsuinul and the Requinul
 
TheBromgrev said:
Where did you get that info from, so I can take a look?
Click to expand...

The 1936/37 cruisers from the internet, the programmes are from:
Conway's All the World Fighting Ships 1906-1921 and 1922-1946
and the data of the ww1 Romanian cruiser proposals from a forum and who posted it taken the data from here:
Thurston's notebook and Lillicrap's Workbook
 
Just an FYI, but I added the fleet compositions for the Battle of Midway to the Fleet Composition entry. See the first post for a link to it. Note that if you were to use those fleets in the game, then you'd be hit by screen penalties, because CA's are improperly counted as capital ships in vanilla.
 
TheBromgrev said:
Just an FYI, but I added the fleet compositions for the Battle of Midway to the Fleet Composition entry. See the first post for a link to it. Note that if you were to use those fleets in the game, then you'd be hit by screen penalties, because CA's are improperly counted as capital ships in vanilla.
Click to expand...

You are right, of course, but I keep hearing USN admirals in my head saying, "Damn the screen penalties! Just send more CAGs!"

BTW, with a more serious question, are HOI3 sea zones big enough that a battle like Midway would count as a single province engagement, or would the opposing fleets be in adjacent provinces?
 
I don't really know. In the case of Midway I think the two fleets would be in adjacent provinces and the CAGs would fly back and forth doing normal naval strikes. Had the Japanese 2nd Fleet arrived on time then the 2nd Fleet would've engaged the American fleets in the same sea zone.
 
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