About modding - to make mods you will need unpacked resource kit and some tools, that we will give out after Paradox approval. Unfortunately I cannot say for sure when it will happen.
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While I had hoped for a wide array of modding support this post just isn't true. As long as video games are made by compiling secret closed source code there will always be parts of games that can't be modded.
@ The Alexey Kozyrev
-The dev who posted
Thanks for the post and the information that there is atleast hope for mods hopefully you guys get approval from paradox for that release Also thanks for bringing us a wonderful game.
-The dev who posted
Thanks for the post and the information that there is atleast hope for mods hopefully you guys get approval from paradox for that release Also thanks for bringing us a wonderful game.
Actually I have, on both accounts. I created my first game in high school and went on to get a degree in video game design and programming. I know a little bit about the subject at hand.
Being made with modding in mind or not has nothing to do with the game's ability to be modded, just the ease of doing it. Any game can be modded on the deepest level if the source is released. Very few games release their source obviously, and for good reason, but to say an engine doesn't support modding is garbage. There are no engine limitations that prevent another coder from coming in and tweaking the source to create a mod. That's the worst case anyway. Very few games are developed without some sort of resource package system (if the resources aren't just out in the open) and all we need is a way to open those packages to start changing things.
Anyway, I guess the publisher was wrong here huh? Paradox is the one who told us multiple times about some silly engine limitation, all the while Ino-Co (the developer) has tools they are willing to share.
Paradox is telling that you cannot modd release version - and you really can't since resources are packed, and that is our programmers decision. This way game loads and works faster.
When you put unpacked data in the games folder - you will be able to modify things, but the game will load slowly. Anyway - to restore normal version you will only have to remove unpacked data from folder.
When you put unpacked data in the games folder - you will be able to modify things, but the game will load slowly. Anyway - to restore normal version you will only have to remove unpacked data from folder.
Actually they pretty much told us it wasn't going to happen because the engine wouldn't support it.
Anyway thanks for the clarification. I'm glad you guys plan to share your unpacker. Definitely good news.
So it seems to allow modding you only need to give the modders tools to unpack and pack the resources (and to edit them, if they aren't in widely used formats).
Also, if modding is enabled, would it be possible to import unit models from Fantasy Wars and Elven Legacy?
Actually I have, on both accounts. I created my first game in high school and went on to get a degree in video game design and programming. I know a little bit about the subject at hand.
Being made with modding in mind or not has nothing to do with the game's ability to be modded, just the ease of doing it. Any game can be modded on the deepest level if the source is released. Very few games release their source obviously, and for good reason, but to say an engine doesn't support modding is garbage. There are no engine limitations that prevent another coder from coming in and tweaking the source to create a mod. That's the worst case anyway. Very few games are developed without some sort of resource package system (if the resources aren't just out in the open) and all we need is a way to open those packages to start changing things.
Anyway, I guess the publisher was wrong here huh? Paradox is the one who told us multiple times about some silly engine limitation, all the while Ino-Co (the developer) has tools they are willing to share.
It's great news that the game just need our approval. My previous post was based on the info I had on the release version, we have all the time discussed adding mod support later but wanted to confirm this could actually be done. Looking forward to seeing what we can do with the mod tools.
Edit: and since we (Paradox) do not own the engine, the promise is not ours to make so I'm grateful Alexey could clear it for us. And just a hint; sometimes reality is more complicated than "just do it then", like legal stuff, contracts etc
I'll go back to my evil publisher torture chamber now for some snack.
F
Then you should know that even with heavily data-driven design, even if you internally work with plain text formats, the data format you provide for IO is often of the highest importance in the finished product.
Most development projects, that do not specifically target modders, provide their resources packed into bitsoups stripped of as much extraneous information as possible, thus relieving both storage requirements (not all that important anymore as AV makes up the largest part and physical media storage limitations are less important than used to be the case, but still a concern) and loading times (which is still a big concern).
This is a limitation of the delivered game engine - a limitation that certainly can be removed with an amount of work that may be small or may be large depending on how close to something easily moddable the original format was and whether internally developed tools, if they are needed to pack the bitsoups in the first place, are felt to be in a public-friendly release state or not - but until it is removed, it remains a definite limitation. (And, of course, in cases where a strong IP or brand is concerned, particularly if it is an externally owned IP, there can be very strong legal reasons to keep that limitation in place rather than opening up a game for easy modding)
Again none of those things are an engine limitation. They are conscious decisions whether or not to release the dev tools into players hands based on other factors (security, legal, whatever). The fact remains that those tools exist and they could easily be used for modding by somebody who knew how to use them. Regardless of whether they are released or not, modders can still figure out the encryption themselves and create their own tools. There is no such thing as an unmoddable game.
I tend to not use mods for any games that I have- as I move on to something else way too soon. Consequently mods are not a big issue for me. With the release of DLC it keeps the game fresh enough for me to continue playing or go back and play some more. Not that what I say matters at all. :unsure:
I think Fred just meant it's in "engine issue" in that the game wasn't made to read data out of text files (or other extremely easy to edit formats) like most of our internal titles. I hope I don't accidentally insult him and get fired (I have no idea of his technical knowledge), but he's the CEO, not a programmer. It's entirely possible he asked why it couldn't be modded and got the layman's answer which he then repeated here. He's not trying to claim Ino Co made a magically unmoddable game, just that due to the way the game is made it's not as easy to mod as some others.
I wasn't trying to say he was being evil or lying. I was just pointing out before that we were getting the, as you call it, layman's version (I said PR version, same thing ), and there had to be more to it if the game actually wasn't going to be moddable. It's all moot though because it turns out it was just a communication error.
), and there had to be more to it if the game actually wasn't going to be moddable. It's all moot though because it turns out it was just a communication error.I've renamed my s100.pack file to several other names (s100.zip, s100.tar, s100.7z, s100.rar, etc). I'm trying to unpack them in Linux Mint, so maybe a problem there... nothing interesting yet.
My guess though is that the pack file is in a proprietary format....
I also tried this method on a WinRar Windows XP machine:
* External links to forums are a no-no re-read the rules concerning posting. *
but it didn't find any files. I think that forum post is meant for a specific game (gPotato) someone is trying to unpack.
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Modding support is not as easy. There are several things, which need to be done:
1. The layer of abstraction. Allowing work on source code level will open gates to malware and could just break the game. Look at Civ 5, for example - they wanted to release DLL API for the very long time, but wasn't successful yet. You need some scripting language, API for it, UI abstraction, etc. Look at Civ 5 again - they're still releasing improvements to modding API in their patches. Also, this allows mods to be cross-platform.
2. Mod compatibility. If mods will be just rewriting info, any 2 mods will be incompatible even if they are affecting unrelated areas. You need some mechanism for this.
3. Mods management. Ability to add and delete mods. Even if there's no UI, you need to sync caches with mod changes.
These things are necessary. There are much more functions which are good, but not required - i.e. it would be good if new patch will disable incompatible mods only instead of disabling all of them, or, worse, crash in case of incompatibility.
So, considering how limited the developer resources are, I think mod support is just isn't high priority thing.
P.S. I already mentioned Civ 5 a couple of times. I need to do it once again. Warlock doesn't need that much modding support, because Civ has it. You could actually recreate Warlock using it, so for any huge mods you could base your fantasy game on Civ instead of Warlock. Surely, small mods are still welcome, like UI things. I also thing mods are good way to develop game - developers could test different ideas by looking at mods and feedbacks on them.
1. The layer of abstraction. Allowing work on source code level will open gates to malware and could just break the game. Look at Civ 5, for example - they wanted to release DLL API for the very long time, but wasn't successful yet. You need some scripting language, API for it, UI abstraction, etc. Look at Civ 5 again - they're still releasing improvements to modding API in their patches. Also, this allows mods to be cross-platform.
2. Mod compatibility. If mods will be just rewriting info, any 2 mods will be incompatible even if they are affecting unrelated areas. You need some mechanism for this.
3. Mods management. Ability to add and delete mods. Even if there's no UI, you need to sync caches with mod changes.
These things are necessary. There are much more functions which are good, but not required - i.e. it would be good if new patch will disable incompatible mods only instead of disabling all of them, or, worse, crash in case of incompatibility.
So, considering how limited the developer resources are, I think mod support is just isn't high priority thing.
P.S. I already mentioned Civ 5 a couple of times. I need to do it once again. Warlock doesn't need that much modding support, because Civ has it. You could actually recreate Warlock using it, so for any huge mods you could base your fantasy game on Civ instead of Warlock. Surely, small mods are still welcome, like UI things. I also thing mods are good way to develop game - developers could test different ideas by looking at mods and feedbacks on them.