[MOD] Atheism
- Thread starter iClex
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Sounds just like Christianity.
Actually, maybe you should change the scope of this from just Atheism to include Agnosticism. That way you can have a couple of heresies. (Agnostic Atheism, Agnostic Theism, Apathetic/Pragmatic Agnosticism etc.)
I thought about some atheist heresies. I have some nice ideas^^
Spagettimonsterism?
It's called Pastafarianism. Also, Cult of the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Cult of the Celestial Teapot?
I'd say gnostic atheism is the only thing that could truly be considered a heresy of atheism, all those others are either just atheists themselves if you take it as a joke or infidels if you take it seriously.
Well, christian heresies also differ mostly on semantics, symbolism and superficial stuff, the core of their beliefs are all the same. So I don't see how spaghettimonster and the teapot are not heresies, as they also differ on these 'meaningless' differences.
They are still the same atheists mostly, but all the different heresies of christian also are still christian and believing the same stuff, so then it would follow that they are not proper heresies too.
I am not sure what you mean by gnostic atheism (agnostic?). But you could argue that agnostic and atheism are actually different beliefs as the core beliefs are different instead of the little things that make it just a heresy. Believing that there is nothing, atheism, or not believing anything, agnosticism).
Pretty major difference.
So what would be the difference between regular atheism and gnostic atheism? If agnostic is not being sure anything supernatural exists and atheism believing no supernatural thing exists, what does gnostic add?
(Atheism is)(not believing that any gods exists), not believing that nothing supernatural exists. Agnostic is more a way of stating "I will never be able to know one way or the other, so I'm not going to bother trying". Gnostic Atheism literally means "Knowing No God", which refers to a belief that there are no gods. Another thing; agnostics/atheists/gnostics are not forbidden to believe in the supernatural. Some varieties of Buddhism are atheistic (that is, they have no gods), but are clearly supernatural.
EDIT - Grouped the first sentence because English is a clumsy language and the grammar didn't make much sense.
Last edited:
So essentially everything from ancestor worship to spirit worlds and gaia are falling under gnostic atheism?
Only if it, by definition, precludes the possibility of gods. IE, if part of the religion specifically says "There are no gods", or if there is no way for the religion to include god like figures, then it would be considered gnostic atheism. But most types of ancestor worship (traditional Roman, Shinto, Chinese Folk, etc.) also include gods. In addition, they also tend to be massively syncretic, to the point where almost everyone who follows any sort of traditional belief like those has adopted a god or several into their religion.
Most gnostic atheists have it as part of their individual beliefs, rather than having it as part of a spread out faith system.
Interesting, thanks for the elaboration
(I have little knowledge about these things
No problem. I realize the terms can get pretty confusing, considering how they aren't always used the way they actually are. The definitions I gave have to do with how people view themselves rather than definitions given by others.
Churches were one of the main ways how technology advanced and spread in this time period, though. Having a tech spread rate bonus makes even less sense than the general mod idea.
Last edited:
'Normal' atheists are agnostic, you can't prove whether a god does or doesn't exist (in general, you can be certain about specific gods), it's just silly to assume it does without any evidence either way.
Gnostic atheists 'know' a god doesn't exist the same way a religious person 'knows' their god exists, with the exact same assuming an answer without evidence as a theist does.
'Pure' agnosticism is something like 'I have no idea whether it is more likely a god exists or not'.
If you'd put it on a scale:
0 is gnostic atheism
>0 <50 is agnostic atheism
50 is agnosticism
>50 <100 is agnostic theism
100 is gnostic theism
Considering that the suggested 'gods' of atheism (except Tyson) fall into the agnostic atheist group it makes sense for that to be the main atheist group and gnostic atheism being the heresy.
^ is more accurate than what I said dictionary wise. Just remember that if someone considers themselves Agnostic, they by and large consider the question unanswerable and therefore meaningless, someone who self identifies as an Atheist but would quality as agnostic atheist is liable to say in casual conversation "There is no god" but mean "The chance of there being a god is incredibly miniscule, and the chance of it being the god of your scripture is basically non-existent, but I'd be willing to believe if you brought hard evidence". You can see why the former statement is used more often even if its less accurate.
Quite true, but I wouldn't object to a tech spread increase, just not a really huge one. Each religion in the game, I think, should have its own flavor to it. However, considering the flavor of the atheism in the game being that, essentially, the Gnu Atheist movement is arising in 1066 AD, I'm okay with it. I'd object if the idea was the tech increase shows not believing in God makes you better at science, but as this seems to be largely Gnu Atheists, it instead is "These people's, for lack of a better word, theological system celebrates science and scientific advancement almost like a holy rite."
I also would prefer not having too many contemporary references? That makes the mod seem like a joke, when I'm really intrigued by the what-if scenario it possesses. There's not really a "What if Richard Dawkins was born in 1020 but you can certainly ask "What if that movement arose." I'm not an atheist myself (there's a reason my self-inserts in the game all get 'Zealous') but I'm really interested in the what-if factor of just adding the religion to the game, and I'd welcome it. My approach to CK2 mods is always "Happy to have another option," really.
Is there an uncoverableness to it, like the Ancient Religions mod? Perhaps someone with Cynical and an Acquire Learning ambition, or an already high Learning, could read/have read ancient texts and figure that, with so many ideas of God/Gods, it's probably a load of bollocks.
Maybe have the divergence be that the modern scientific method is introduced earlier and for whatever reason the church immediately sees it as a threat and declares it heretical? Then those that embrace it go 'you know what, we have our shiny new toy and don't need your god any more' and become atheists.
I think it's more a question of emphasis, the self described atheist focuses on the fact that the chance is infinitesimally small the self described agnostic on the fact that they really don't care either way. Anyway, the original point was that atheism and agnosticism really aren't opposed in regards to what is a heresy of what.
I'm going to be actively monitoring this thread to ensure it remains on topic and discussions remain civil. If you have theological differences that preclude you from civility in discussion on the subject, I'd advise you to keep it to yourself or take it to the OT forum so the mod maker and the mod's fans can develop and discuss the mod and it's potential mechanics in peace. If you insist on posting and trying to draw this thread off-topic, you may gain infractions against your account or worse.