Well, it would be much easier if Italy AAMoF fought any winter campaign in the WWII...
Ceterum censeo Bachem deletam esse.
Ceterum censeo Bachem deletam esse.
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Halibutt said:
They did. Withdrawal of Russia, 1943: the most dreadful disaster for Axis in the war. Alpini division Julia retreated fighting and, unique unit on the Axis side, it was never beaten on the battlefield by Soviets. It died due to winter attrition, not for tactical reasons.
The most glorious page for Italian Army in the war, along with Folgore and Ariete at El Alamein.
Several staff
As for alpine division Julia,she was beaten in the mountains of greece and almost tottaly anihilated there.
Ok there was a Japanes admiral named:Tamon Yamaguchi(not sure for spelling) which was one of the most air-minded admirals,a 2nd Yamamoto,commander of a carrier division until Midway in which he died by refusing to leave its flag ship Hiryu.In the Japanese naval leader files however there is no such leader.Can something be done for that?I have the 0411 pack.
As for alpine division Julia,she was beaten in the mountains of greece and almost tottaly anihilated there.
Ok there was a Japanes admiral named:Tamon Yamaguchi(not sure for spelling) which was one of the most air-minded admirals,a 2nd Yamamoto,commander of a carrier division until Midway in which he died by refusing to leave its flag ship Hiryu.In the Japanese naval leader files however there is no such leader.Can something be done for that?I have the 0411 pack.
The ancient mar said:
True. But it was in 1940: the italian HQ had sent it in a fool offensive across mountains, without any surprise, and even against a superior enemy...
The italian supreme HQ was the first responsible of the italian disasters of 1940-41.
Then things improved for Italy but, unfortunately for Axis, it was the german turn to commit mistakes... 
Italian Guarantees
Hi birch
i read your doing your final Italian format so i hope im not to late to put this proposal forward.
The Rome Protocols Pact signed in 1934, resigned in March 1936 and then Extented on the 20th of November 1936 by Italy, Austria and Hungary, the pact by which Italy guaranteed both Austria and hungary's borders, as you would be aware Mussolini suspicious of Hitlers intentions particularly to the above countries during the early 30's met Hitler and pointed out his point of view so to speak about those countries sovereignty, he made it clear that he did not see eye to eye with what Hitler wanted hence the Rome Pact but as we know by 1938 things had changed and Austria was more but if a player wanted to play a Ahistorical game why not add a Guarantee trigger event to the 1936 election say if a Democratic Government was elected that they would honor the pact and if Germany was to use the "demand territory option" and Austria relents this would trigger a Italo-German war, there would have to be some sought of time limit or cut off point say Dec 1937 for the Guarantee to end and so that the Anschluss Event can trigger without any Italian interference, now its not one of the big Military Pacts of the 1930s but it is valid and historical as the campaign game starts in Jan 1936, the big question is could it work in game terms, also you might have some ideas of your own about how to put such a Guarantee in place for Italy if you choose to do so, its just another interesting option for the game.
Regards TM1
birch23 said:Yes I am doing the revision the final one on Italy now,and I was going to cut down on the panzer and give them more winter specialists...so I agree on that one...
Hi birch
i read your doing your final Italian format so i hope im not to late to put this proposal forward.
The Rome Protocols Pact signed in 1934, resigned in March 1936 and then Extented on the 20th of November 1936 by Italy, Austria and Hungary, the pact by which Italy guaranteed both Austria and hungary's borders, as you would be aware Mussolini suspicious of Hitlers intentions particularly to the above countries during the early 30's met Hitler and pointed out his point of view so to speak about those countries sovereignty, he made it clear that he did not see eye to eye with what Hitler wanted hence the Rome Pact but as we know by 1938 things had changed and Austria was more but if a player wanted to play a Ahistorical game why not add a Guarantee trigger event to the 1936 election say if a Democratic Government was elected that they would honor the pact and if Germany was to use the "demand territory option" and Austria relents this would trigger a Italo-German war, there would have to be some sought of time limit or cut off point say Dec 1937 for the Guarantee to end and so that the Anschluss Event can trigger without any Italian interference, now its not one of the big Military Pacts of the 1930s but it is valid and historical as the campaign game starts in Jan 1936, the big question is could it work in game terms, also you might have some ideas of your own about how to put such a Guarantee in place for Italy if you choose to do so, its just another interesting option for the game.
Regards TM1
2Coats said:Winter Specialists for Italy?????? Just how many of them can get reassigned to a cushy alpine backwater?
Some great work Birch. Keep it up! Must be like collecting those sticker albums, got, got, got, OH I NEED that one, swap you my Monty from abn Hussein!!
:rofl: sort of,I had a lot of those when I was a kid which oc course is centuries ago...
Halibutt said:
They were in Russia...
and that was actually where they did best.No it is not out of order,because Italy has a lot of mountains and very much snow expecially in the north,and the Alpinisti was among the few of the Italians who did a decent job.....probably annoying the Italians now...
The ancient mar said:
oh the name id correct enough,well he is in the file already,but only as a land leader(it is one of the more annoying things in the Japanese file that quite a lot of admirals fought on land too)and he did that,I have however now placed him as a admiral too.
TM1 said:
Such a thing can easily be implemented,but I am a little cautious about changing too much around in the Axis(major) behaviour,but since the democratic option will be there for the Italian player I kind of guess he would go to war anyway with Germany if Anschluss happened,(I think playing a democratic Italy could be fun actually) but they will have a hard time going to war as democratic in 1938...it is one of the things we should look at when it comes to fine tuning.
Hartmann
There is in Germany air leader files a officer named Hartmann which has a trait of fleet destroyer.Now i beliave there was a Hartmann which was the pilot with the biggest number of enemy planes shot down in WW2.Is he the same and if he is then why doesnt he has a superior tactician profile?
There is in Germany air leader files a officer named Hartmann which has a trait of fleet destroyer.Now i beliave there was a Hartmann which was the pilot with the biggest number of enemy planes shot down in WW2.Is he the same and if he is then why doesnt he has a superior tactician profile?
The ancient mar said:
birch23 said:you might have a point there,unfortunately the German file is now closed....
Ceterum censeo Bachem deletam esse.
The ancient mar said:
No it is not the same,AFAIR the other was called Willi,and the reason he is not in is that he never made it through major,besides the astonishing no of enemy airplanes shot down was mostly Russian Air Transports,which is why the air nuts doesn't recognize him as an ace btw.They almost all have the Nowotny (Austrian) as the no.1 German ace.Martin Hartmann made it to mjg somewhat late for this game,but it is a nice pic...
and he was a fleet destoyer,mainly killing of Russian ships in the Baltic.For a loooong time he also held the record for the pilot who had been able to fly at the highest altitude.He became a Bundeswehr general too.
J Files
Finally had the Italians sorted out which wasn't all that easy because there are two(were) two different ministers dealing with arms production and no less than 3 dealing with security,so I ended up with too many... which is a bit rare.All I lack now is making the actual elections.
And to the J countries which is only Japan...now apart from the coup in 36 I have to find out why on earth they had so many governments,seems they changed each 3 months or so.And there were actually elections,and since we don't miss any pisc there,I think that will go fairly easy.
Finally had the Italians sorted out which wasn't all that easy because there are two(were) two different ministers dealing with arms production and no less than 3 dealing with security,so I ended up with too many...
which is a bit rare.All I lack now is making the actual elections.And to the J countries which is only Japan...now apart from the coup in 36 I have to find out why on earth they had so many governments,seems they changed each 3 months or so.And there were actually elections,and since we don't miss any pisc there,I think that will go fairly easy.
Hartmann 2
Ok it seems to know a lot about him,still he shot down 350 planes approx. and althought a big number of them were probably Il16 fighters in the beginning of Barbarossa i still think that he didnt shoot so many air transports.Anyway this is just a note,for me your explanation is ok.
birch23 said:No it is not the same,AFAIR the other was called Willi,and the reason he is not in is that he never made it through major,besides the astonishing no of enemy airplanes shot down was mostly Russian Air Transports,which is why the air nuts doesn't recognize him as an ace btw.They almost all have the Nowotny (Austrian) as the no.1 German ace.Martin Hartmann made it to mjg somewhat late for this game,but it is a nice pic...
Ok it seems to know a lot about him,still he shot down 350 planes approx. and althought a big number of them were probably Il16 fighters in the beginning of Barbarossa i still think that he didnt shoot so many air transports.Anyway this is just a note,for me your explanation is ok.
The ancient mar said:
Well, his name is Erich Hartmann and not Willi. And he was VERY good. But he was never more than a Major, and I don't think we should include low-ranking air aces to the leaderfiles, except for minor countries were we don't have enough "ordinary" generals...
Erich Hartmann is officially credited with 352 victories. Probably not too many of these were I16, since Hartmann didn't get posted to the eastern front before october 1942. According to one of the pages under, this includes 261 single engined fighters/fighterbombers (including Sturmoviks), and 90 two-engined planes and 1 heavy bomber.
Harmann spent 10 years in Russia as a POW after the war, and became a colonel in the West German Airforce after he was released.
Some more info here:
http://www.wwiirelics.com/hartmann.htm
http://www.acepilots.com/misc_hartmann.html
http://www.waffenhq.de/biographien/biographien/hartmann.html
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Frodon said:
Erich....yes of course...well I was only vaguely quoting from memory,I thought he to made it to general in Bundeswehr too but apparently not.Most sites however seems to list Nowotny as top German ace...but who cares anyway
and Italy finally made with 23 pics (some goody goody ones too... csv ministers and INC36-elections and sent
and now it is time to "Turn Japanese"...can't remember the name of the group with that hit..
csv ministers and INC36-elections and sentand now it is time to "Turn Japanese"...can't remember the name of the group with that hit..
birch23 said:They were in Russia...
'Alpini' is the correct word.
Hurin said:'Alpini' is the correct word.
I just extended the word a tiny bit....
...then I guess Alpinisti are the guys who skies around the pistes.....?