India game: need tips and advices

[yosraz]

Hello!

I am playing an Indian country for the moment and it is fun as hell. I started as a Thakur and after good relations with my liege (the Maharaja) I was given the title as Raja. I have some long term plans and the obvious one is to get my independence so I can form a kingdom. I have two duchies and a de jure claim on one province (dont remember the name. This is the first time I have engaged myself thoroughly in the game and I am still at the point where I learn by trial.

In this playthrough my aim was to go from coun to duke and then take the leap to the king title. I have been very focused on keeping good relations with the council and other vassals. I am also going to foucus on developing my provinces.

My questions are as follows:

- my goal is to get independence from my liege and this will not happen without a war. Right now I have a too small levy. Should not my goal be to develop provinces under my direct control and build castles to raise my personal levy?

- Which buildings are considered mandatory? Should I have focus on temples and cities?

- How come some vassals become powerful? Is it a way to keep them weak and how?

These are some of the questions I can think of now. More will come later.

Note: treasury is in minus because I fought a war and had to hire mercenaries. This point made me rethink my strategy. If I want independence I need more soldiers in my personal levy. Right?

 

[Ilion]

Yes, you want to focus on increasing your realm's power. And that means you need more castles, and they need to be developed. And that means that you need money.

So, the first thing to focus on is building up your income. In your castles, first build the Castle Town (then the upgrade if your tech allows), then the Castle Wall, and so on. You want to first build the buildings which bring you money.

Set your steward to "collect taxes" in your capital county.

Try to hold more than one castle in your capital county -- you get a bonus for your holdings in the capital county (and a lesser bonus for other holdings in the capital duchy).

Consider moving your personal demesne a coastal duchy (and your capital to a coastal county) -- cities in coastal counties have an extra income-generating building.

This is something I've been playing with recently --
Once your capital is in a coastal county, consider building a city and holding it yourself, rather than giving it to a mayor. Yes, it will have the "wrong holder type" malus -- this means that the income it generates will be halved ... and also it seems to generate no garrison (making it vulnerable to siege). But, even with the "wrong holder type" malus, one you have built the income-generating buildings, it will give you more money than your castles in the same county. Also, your steward's "collect taxes" action will also apply to this city.

 

[Dragatus]

Note that "powerful vassal" means the vassal is considered powerful compared to other vassals, but may still be weak in compare to the liege.

Vassal power is counted based on how many holding there are in their subrealm, with age as a secondary sorting mechanism. So a vassal count who has 1 county, 2 vassal mayors and 1 vassal priest will have 4 power while a count who has 2 counties, 3 mayors vassals and 2 priest vassals would have 7 power. The game then counts how many positions there are on your council and one less that is how many vassals consider themselves powerful. If you have 4 powerful vassals then the 4 vassals with the highest power score will be considered powerful vassals.

Prioritize cities over temples. The increase in taxes is greater than the loss of vassal levies. Try to also have 1 or 2 extra castles in your capital county. If you set the steward to collect taxes he will improve income from all holdings that you personally hold in the province, so it's more effective. You also get a significant bonus to the number of levies you get since multiple castles will receive the capital bonus and if your marshal is training troops he will again boost levies from all the castles you have in the province.

When upgrading your castles, first upgrade castle town for more income, but do note it's not worth to get all the upgrades. The extra income is per year, not per month, so once the cost of upgrading castle town rises to 200 gold or more it may not be worth it. If you invest 200 gold to get +2 gold per year it will take 100 years before you get your money back and another 100 years before you again have 200 extra gold. You do tend to get more than the displayed amount due to Stewardship bonus and steward collecting taxes, but there is still a limit to how much of an effect that has. It's fair to assume you'll be making twice the displayed amount or +4 per castle town upgrade. So divide the construction cost by 4 to see how long it will take for the investment to pay off. Then make a judgement on how long you will still play this game (in game years). If it's more than twice as long as it will take to get your money back, the investment is worth it. Otherwise it's probably not.

When it comes to military buildings, I personally prioritize barracks and unique cultural buildings.

 

[yosraz]

Yes, you want to focus on increasing your realm's power. And that means you need more castles, and they need to be developed. And that means that you need money.

So, the first thing to focus on is building up your income. In your castles, first build the Castle Town (then the upgrade if your tech allows), then the Castle Wall, and so on. You want to first build the buildings which bring you money.

Set your steward to "collect taxes" in your capital county.

Try to hold more than one castle in your capital county -- you get a bonus for your holdings in the capital county (and a lesser bonus for other holdings in the capital duchy).

Consider moving your personal demesne a coastal duchy (and your capital to a coastal county) -- cities in coastal counties have an extra income-generating building.

This is something I've been playing with recently --
Once your capital is in a coastal county, consider building a city and holding it yourself, rather than giving it to a mayor. Yes, it will have the "wrong holder type" malus -- this means that the income it generates will be halved ... and also it seems to generate no garrison (making it vulnerable to siege). But, even with the "wrong holder type" malus, one you have built the income-generating buildings, it will give you more money than your castles in the same county. Also, your steward's "collect taxes" action will also apply to this city.

Thank you very much for great tips. I am already experiencing a far more easier game after taking notice of what you wrote. I post one picture to show what has happed to now. As you see the income in my home county Taradavadi has increased substantially as has my personal levy.

 

[afrodius]

I notice you have a silk road trade post in your territory. If that county isn't in your personal demense you should focus on acquiring it for yourself. Those trade posts make tons of cash. You might consider moving your capital there, but you should definitely have your steward collect taxes there as it will boost the income of both your castle and the trade post. Eventually you will want to fill that county with cities as cities get a bonus from trade posts that castles and temples dont

 

[yosraz]

.

I have agnatic gavelkind law at the moment and cannot change it for the moment. After my death my son holds the primary title and the other are distributed among other sons. Will I have permanent de jure claim on them?

 

[yosraz]

I notice you have a silk road trade post in your territory. If that county isn't in your personal demense you should focus on acquiring it for yourself. Those trade posts make tons of cash. You might consider moving your capital there, but you should definitely have your steward collect taxes there as it will boost the income of both your castle and the trade post. Eventually you will want to fill that county with cities as cities get a bonus from trade posts that castles and temples dont

Yes, you are right. It is Goa and some decades ago some jews asked for establishing a trade post there. But after the death of my character I lost it to my half-brother.

 

[afrodius]

Yes, you are right. It is Goa and some decades ago some jews asked for establishing a trade post there. But after the death of my character I lost it to my half-brother.

Sounds like it's time to start murdering your brothers and their kids.

 

[yosraz]

Sounds like it's time to start murdering your brothers and their kids.

You are right again. I was in a situation where I did not have an heir and my wife was not interested in me. So I got concubines and load of sons. I forgot that it will make trouble later on. But if I start muder myu siblings now, will I get their titles back?

 

[afrodius]

You are right again. I was in a situation where I did not have an heir and my wife was not interested in me. So I got concubines and load of sons. I forgot that it will make trouble later on. But if I start muder myu siblings now, will I get their titles back?

Yes they should eventually come back to you if you murder enough. You can look at the line of succession if you click on the title. Alternatively you can try to revoke the title if you'd rather be known as a tyrant than a kinslayer. Another strategy would be to antagonize your brother enough that he starts plotting against you so you can imprison and revoke without tyranny. I still recommend murder if you can get the % over 100.

 

[Ilion]

Alternately, rather than murdering you kin, you could try to die without sons (or grandsons), so that everything eventually goes to that half-brother (or his heir).

 

[Ilion]

If you are planning to move you capital to the coastal county once you reacquire it, save up your tech points. That is, don't spend them upgrading the tech of your current capital.

Also, set your spy to spying for technology -- placing him/her in Constantinople is generally best, as that county starts out with the highest tech in the early starts. Be aware that sometimes the spy is discovered and captured; sometimes killed (so, try not to use someone you want to keep, like you heir ... unless you want a chance of the heir dying). When you spy for technology, the tech in your capital starts increasing (without you having to spend tech points). And, once in a while, your spy gives you a bonus of 50 points in one category.

 

[yosraz]

Independence war won

 

[Ilion]

Now you need to get a Maharaja title!

 

[yosraz]

Now you need to get a Maharaja title!

I struggle with agnatic gavelkind. After every time my Raja dies his titles are divided among hos sons and brothers (well thats gavelkind). How can I avoid losing all my land? Do you have any advices? I always start at the earliest date in my every game.

 

[afrodius]

It used to be very easy for Indians to get ultimogeniture, but I think they changed it at some point so that it requires the same level.of legalism as primogeniture. So focus on getting your legalism up. Easiest way is to take scholarship focus, build the observatory, and focus on the strange or weird.

Once you have the required levels of legalism, you need to have reigned for at least 10 years, and all your direct vassals count or above must like you. (Positive opinion)

 

[Ilion]

That's why you need to get a Maharaja title (*). Even though Gavelkind will divide any lower-tier titles you have amongst your heirs, the highest-tier title will go to your main heir, and the others will be his vassals.

Also, while you're still under gavelkind, if you have multiple titles of the same rank -- or even if you hold the counties for which multiple title could be created -- inheritance will distribute (and, if necessary, first create) those "extra" title to your various heirs. This means that you realm will again fracture.


(*) also, I'd suggest not taking on extra wives/concubines, so as to limit the number of sons. I personally don't do the "make lots of bastards and legitimize one" thing that is so popular with some.

 

[Narvait]

Take old wife and produce no heirs is also a strategy. Or produce only bastards and wait for one with great traits to legitimize.

Also, I dunno if that has changed but you actually did not need to become independent. Once you got enough land under you to establish a kingdom, you just establish it and become an independent Maharaja. Just like that.
Also - alliances and wars is not a bad strategy

 

[Rags17]

Under gavelkind after death you will play as the primary heir and get all of the retinues and the treasury, you also get strong claims on all of your brotehr's titles. This should give you a huge leg up on fighting them to get them all back. Gavelkind succession wars are normal.

 

[_Perun_]

If I want independence I need more soldiers in my personal levy. Right?

Not false but developing your country is more of a privilege of the rich than a reliable mean to achieve goals.
As mentioned, getting allies and having them to do the dirty work is much easier and lighter for your treasury. It looks that you have seven kids, that means seven potential alliances. Try to ally the strongest Maharajas. If you can find only one who is alone stronger that your liege, you are to go for the independence but ideally just betroth or marry all your kids to strong ruling families. Bertrothals are especially useful since you can just cancel them after a won war.

You can also target smaller independent realms with the Extort Tribute CB and if you win, the target will aid you in your every following war. Having multiple small tributaries can make a lot of difference.

Also, I dunno if that has changed but you actually did not need to become independent. Once you got enough land under you to establish a kingdom, you just establish it and become an independent Maharaja. Just like that.

I dont think you can just create a title that is equal to that of your liege.