HoI 3 / III TFH Supply-System

[GeneralGrievous]

I think we need a bit more information?

If you started the campaign with just over 10k of supplies in stockpile, then how many days were you EXPECTING that to last during the campaign? Bearing in mind you were producing zero supplies through industry yourself and had no way of knowing how much enemy supply you would overrun.

I don't understand what is your purpose in building infra in Poland etc. There's zero reason to max out infra with your strategy. It's like having a wider and wider bore water pipe in a drought - it will do nothing if there's no actual water to pump through it. Better to have laid off the infra builds and just produce supplies instead.

Thirdly, you are expecting your speartips around Stalingrad to overrun Soviet supplies. These supplies will filter back to Berlin and then reverse to supply your starving units around Kiev/Odessa. How many days will such supplies take in their move back and forth?

I think if you can answer these questions, then we'll be better equipped to point out what is going wrong here.

Hello,
sry for my late reply. I really appreciate -all- your comments and they really help me to understand the game mechanics. Had too little time for HOI3 in the last days :-\
1.
My stockpile was indeed very low. I knew that. But within the France campaign I also spend ZERO IC on supply....and everything went fine: and I didnt understood why???? Not producing supplies and the stockpile grows while an strategic advancing operation? So I was very suprised as my stockpile went down during BARBAROSSA in a few days...well not....but why??? The beging of both of the operation - recording to supply- are very similar (good supply route from capital to the front with a 100% infra and the first conquered provinces had also a good infra....)
So my question is: how much supplies should be in stockpile and how much IC should be spend on IC-production (IC-supply always on 100%????)
2.
Building infra in ALL provinces is a test...plz remember, its still a testing arrangement ;-) In my understanding the AI "searches" for the best supply route. And if the supply route is overstretched, the supply goes through adjacent provinces. So its better if they (=adjacent provinces) are also with a 100%infra, or not??? You are right, it is very inefficent to build up ALL provinces with 100% infra...but with this basis you can clearly recognize whether infra is problem or not...by the the way: I still dont understand why the "all-100%-infra-plan" does not work :-( I have read this in a german forum as well, but I didnt get it. On the other hand there is a clear advice (in this forum) to build up "supply highways" (as germany in russia). So after all, you're right, my plan "all-100%-infra" was not very efficient. But I am not still convinced why...
3.
You mentioned a good point, which I still dont get: the supply transport FROM the capital and BACk to the capital. I have read this in many forums.....hmm...sry...I dont get...how can I see whether supplies are requsted/needed/send back???? Example: PzDiv requests supply while being in province A==> PzDiv moves to province B ==> is the supply sent to province A now send back to the capital??? On which way? How can I make sure that units in this area get the supplies...???

I can give a quick interim result on my testing arrangemt in RUSSIA:
- all of the advancing PzDiv had been supplied through captured supply depots. My advacing light PzDiv are without supply-routes FOR WEEKS and still advance...the supply map is always turquoise/green, while the provinces behind them are out of supply
- supply in RUSSIA works only through convois...Baltic Sea and Black Sea...
- my army in this testing arrangement is very small (because I had spent TONS of IC in carriers to test how they work in HOI3- horrible ;-) but if I am not able to supply this small army, I am obvious not able to understand the supply-system at all...so...I have to keep this thread open...

On other point: the red lines are not the main problem; yes, you wont get boni, but this will not solve the the general supply problems...

Thx, and please have patience with me...so...I dont get the last post :-(

 

[50shadesofgreen]

1) It's simple maths. Say you have 10k supplies in the pool and use 500 per day. You will run out in 20 days. To survive you will need to build 500 per day.

You survived the France campaign because you overrun Holland, Belgium and probably Paris within a month and gained their supply totals. You got away with that. You won't succeed this way in Russia unless you take Moscow in 20 days.

2) Don't run before you can walk. If you can't figure out how supplies work then it's folly for you to build infra. Reducing a supply chain length by two provinces will save you about 0.1 of a supply per day - over the entire front! Just build the damn supplies. It's way cheaper than maxing out the infra.

3) That fact you can't directly my question shows how short-sighted it is to rely on just captured supply. Just build the amount of supply the production slider suggests or watch the pool total and aim to keep it within chosen limits. Say between 10k to 15k. Supplies do not go off or catch fire in this game. Just keep a healthy surplus to keep things functional.

 

[GarfunkeL]

To further reinforce 50shadesofgreen point, it really is pretty cheap to build supplies and that is the best way to approach to move forward. The things we've suggested you to do are to enable supplies from your capital to reach your frontline units, but they won't help you if you don't have enough supplies in Berlin to begin with. You must build supplies in massive amounts for Barbarossa and you shouldn't even start it until you have a stockpile of 60k +

 

[Kovax]

3.
You mentioned a good point, which I still dont get: the supply transport FROM the capital and BACk to the capital. I have read this in many forums.....hmm...sry...I dont get...how can I see whether supplies are requsted/needed/send back???? Example: PzDiv requests supply while being in province A==> PzDiv moves to province B ==> is the supply sent to province A now send back to the capital??? On which way? How can I make sure that units in this area get the supplies...???

A minor shift by a unit far from the capital will typically have its supply path corrected by the game's supply engine. Moving directly toward or away from your capital is pretty straight-forward: the supply line either extends or contracts as needed. Shifting laterally along the front poses a problem for the supply engine, so it may abandon the existing path, send all supplies in transit back to your capital, and send a fresh batch of supplies along the new path. I have not been able to predict how much movement it takes to trigger a supply line redraw; then again, I didn't do much testing. Whether that results in some of the supply for OTHER units also being returned to the capital, leading to shortages at the front, is questionable. A lot of lateral movement (at right angles to the supply direction) can result in no supply reaching the front for weeks or months at a time. Then there are the occasional issues where a stationary unit does not receive any supply for months or years, even though the supply lines run through an adjacent province.

Of course, if things are running too smoothly, your allies are prone to sending a plethora of "gourmet" divisions, which it will park on your supply lines and reduce what makes it through. In one HUN campaign, I had Germany park over 90 brigades, mostly armored and motorized, on my supply highway, eating every last bit of supply that I tried to send through, while never actually moving to the front to assist. The front collapsed spectacularly for lack of supply.

One can learn a lot about the system, but I don't think anyone fully understands some of the quirks.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Hello and again sry for late answer, i am still still playing, but...well..times have changed in some...circumstances...in the east...or west..or somewhere

Now "Bitter Peace" happened in august41, so all you folks were right that it doesnt make sense to build up an area-wide 100% infra. The effort of "main-supply-highways-with-100%-infra" ==> I cant test it because the Soviet capitulated to fast. But my areawide 100%infra in Poland didnt showed effort...

I think it is most important to play at least "3-days-in-game". That was my main fail because the AI-Engine was not able to execute the supply routes. And at this point it doesn't make a difference wheather you have 10k supply or ZeroSupply, as long you are "just in time": my supply routes are after 3 months still fully functional with a stockpile from under 1k....
After all thx for all your information, so this my summary after the testing game.
- AI-supply needs 3 days for working
- builing infra up to 100%% only on "Highways"
- IC should at 100% at least only in "critical times"
- command structures must be optimized => all Log Commanders

Well, I am still starting with Hoi3, so I am really grateful for futher information....i am still not convinced that the supply-system of Hoi3 is....very understandable...